RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (Full Version)

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DesFIP -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 7:18:01 PM)
Well, it certainly isn't about embracing myself for me. I do things because I want him to be happy with me, no matter the result on myself. However, I wonder if it isn't different for those who go out looking for slaves, not for love. Where the slavery comes before the relationship, so to speak.

IrishMist -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 8:02:10 PM)
So, what you and littlewonder are saying is that no matter how unhappy and unfulfilled you are...that it will not matter because all you are concerned with is that he is happy and fulfilled? Uh huh. Ok. If you say so.

littlewonder -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 8:10:48 PM)
He makes me happy in our relationship, bdsm or no bdsm. There are quite a few times I'm unhappy with things but not enough to walk away from him. I've only ever walked away from one relationship in my life but he led me to have no choice. Any other time, I've always stuck it out because I believe in love, honor, obey despite the bad times or unhappiness. And for me my happiness really does come from him. Those are the times when I am most joyful in my life. I love to see his smiles, to know I'm making his life easier and more fun for him. I don't really ever worry about if I am enjoying something or not with him. In my mind each and every time is, does he like me doing this? Is this what he wants? Oh, God I think I fucked up, me worrying that he's not happy with me, etc...

NuevaVida -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 8:49:32 PM)
About embracing myself. It's not about a struggle with slavery or submission. It's about knowing who I am, and what fulfills me, and not just accepting that part of me, but enjoying it and nourishing it. In other words (and come to think of it, I've said this before), I am automatically submissive in my intimate relationships. To deny myself that, or to be denied that, would be not being true to who I am. Embracing who I am means that when I'm in an intimate relationship, I submit to him, serve him, give over authority to him, because it fulfills me to do so. Cool thing that it fulfills him that I do so. Win/win.

littlewonder -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 9:08:33 PM)
and I guess that's where I differ. I never really think of those things entering in a relationship. I come from an old fashioned background where women are subservient to their husbands, man as Godhead, etc....so for me this all came naturally to me and I thought that's how all relationships were until my husband died and I had to actually start dating (we grew up as neighbors and had the same upbringing and I married him right out of school). So then I found out that there was this group of people who called what just was to me, bdsm. So for me it's just all kinda odd and I can't really relate to having to rejoice or embrace or any of that. It just is that way. I've never known any other way. When I see a relationship that's not that way, I always wonder why and how it became so different than how I grew up.

NuevaVida -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 9:24:04 PM)
You might be misunderstanding me, but I'm not sure. I love and.embrace who I am as a whole - all aspects of.me. no struggle, no rejoicing, just enjoying my life. I dont live for.him, I live according.to who I am and what's best for me. And what's best for me is submitting to him in this relationship, with him in charge. Basically, my enslavement comes from.within me, which is the point I was.getting.at.

JeffBC -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 9:29:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Well, it certainly isn't about embracing myself for me. I do things because I want him to be happy with me, no matter the result on myself. That'd be Carol also. While it's true that she "prefers to defer", there's a huge gulf between that and "absolute obedience". For her, it's all about giving into the marriage with 110% of herself. She is not a "slave in her heart". She never embraced slavery. She never wanted to be a slave. The idea of TPE does not thrill her. She just wants to bring her A game to the marriage so as long as I want a slave then that's what she is. Where that gets weird is that we've been together so long that it's really not possible to separate out what is "embracing her", "embracing me", and "embracing us". Pretty much always those three things are one and the same. Maybe it's fair enough to say that she's embracing that part of her that wants the best marriage she can get.

subbyinlosangele -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 10:14:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I have been kicking a thread topic around in my head for a couple days now. The thing is, I want to begin the thread in such as way as to leave the topic as wide open as possible. So, with this in mind, let's begin with some definitions and see where the convo leads. What is your definition of mental domination? How do you use it or how has it been used on you? How would you define internal enslavement? Again, how does it play out in your relationship (or not)? Do you find this type of domination extreme, or do you view it as part n parcel of a "normal" M/s or D/s relationship? Is there a certain personality type that makes internal enslavement easier? Can you go "too far" with mental domination or internal enslavement? What about loss of autonomy? Do all s-types incur loss of autonomy? Is that the point, from the dominant's perspective? If your s-type loses too much autonomy, what steps do you take to rectify this? Can you "undo" internal enslavement and still keep the slave? Please feel free to expand and explore on these fascinating topics. Thank you, CP Personally, the whole notion of enslavement and loss of autonomy doesn't resonate with me. I am submissive, but I can't ever imagine losing my sense of self (or even of making BDSM the central aspect of my life, as what you are suggesting would seem to require). I can't imagine that I would ever want a relationship with a domme who was interested in the stuff you're suggesting.

LadyConstanze -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 11:11:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele Personally, the whole notion of enslavement and loss of autonomy doesn't resonate with me. I am submissive, but I can't ever imagine losing my sense of self (or even of making BDSM the central aspect of my life, as what you are suggesting would seem to require). I can't imagine that I would ever want a relationship with a domme who was interested in the stuff you're suggesting. I can understand that, even from "the other side" it would feel much more like being responsible for offspring than a relationship, and a person who's so dependent and totally focused on me in all aspects of life, it would scare me and it would freak me out, for me the fun aspect would be missing. I got a bunch of pets being dependent on me, I can deal with that, but with a partner? My worst nightmare.

IrishMist -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 11:11:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida You might be misunderstanding me, but I'm not sure. I love and.embrace who I am as a whole - all aspects of.me. no struggle, no rejoicing, just enjoying my life. I dont live for.him, I live according.to who I am and what's best for me. And what's best for me is submitting to him in this relationship, with him in charge. Basically, my enslavement comes from.within me, which is the point I was.getting.at. No, I think she is misunderstanding. I just can't think of a way to explain it properly [:o] quote: He makes me happy in our relationship, bdsm or no bdsm. There are quite a few times I'm unhappy with things but not enough to walk away from him. I've only ever walked away from one relationship in my life but he led me to have no choice. Any other time, I've always stuck it out because I believe in love, honor, obey despite the bad times or unhappiness. And for me my happiness really does come from him. Those are the times when I am most joyful in my life. I love to see his smiles, to know I'm making his life easier and more fun for him. I don't really ever worry about if I am enjoying something or not with him. In my mind each and every time is, does he like me doing this? Is this what he wants? Oh, God I think I fucked up, me worrying that he's not happy with me, etc... May I ask you something? And I am not trying to belittle what you have said, or how you feel. I am just curious as to your answer about something. You have certain needs when it comes to your relationship. Correct? If your NEEDS WERE NOT BEING MET, would you still stay with him?

subbyinlosangele -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 11:18:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele Personally, the whole notion of enslavement and loss of autonomy doesn't resonate with me. I am submissive, but I can't ever imagine losing my sense of self (or even of making BDSM the central aspect of my life, as what you are suggesting would seem to require). I can't imagine that I would ever want a relationship with a domme who was interested in the stuff you're suggesting. I can understand that, even from "the other side" it would feel much more like being responsible for offspring than a relationship, and a person who's so dependent and totally focused on me in all aspects of life, it would scare me and it would freak me out, for me the fun aspect would be missing. I got a bunch of pets being dependent on me, I can deal with that, but with a partner? My worst nightmare. I have trouble seeing what a domme would get out of it. I think it would quickly become tiresome. I suppose it could OK for fun and games as long as you don't see each other but as a long-term thing is just sounds boring and unsatisfying to me. I have too much going on in my life to watch someone to be totally dependent on me, or to be totally dependent on some one else. I mean, really, do people really make BDSM such a central aspect of their lives? To me it should be a (relatively) small part of the whole.

LadyConstanze -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 11:31:32 PM)
I met people who really get off on that, but BDSM is a bit like sex is that respect, if the relationship is generally OK and working well, sex (or BDSM) is 10% of it's importance, it's more the icing on the cake, if the relationship isn't working as well as it should, then that part becomes 90%. I think because it can be so hard to find a partner, a lot of people compromise and concentrate on the BDSM aspect and it becomes all consuming... I like to compare it to a glass of wine or some other guilty pleasure, makes life more enjoyable, once you need it to function, it's a bit of a liability and an addiction....

subbyinlosangele -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 11:40:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze I met people who really get off on that, but BDSM is a bit like sex is that respect, if the relationship is generally OK and working well, sex (or BDSM) is 10% of it's importance, it's more the icing on the cake, if the relationship isn't working as well as it should, then that part becomes 90%. I think because it can be so hard to find a partner, a lot of people compromise and concentrate on the BDSM aspect and it becomes all consuming... I like to compare it to a glass of wine or some other guilty pleasure, makes life more enjoyable, once you need it to function, it's a bit of a liability and an addiction.... That's an interesting way of looking at it. It should be the other way round -- if the relationship is good, you rarely think about the BDSM aspects. But of course there is so variance. A lot of people just get together for play sessions, and in that case the BDSM stuff is 98% of it. Which is cool. But the more you want a total relationship, the less the BDSM stuff matters. Frankly, if you are talking about a full committed relationships, the whipping or whatever is 1 percent of it

LadyConstanze -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/6/2012 11:48:57 PM)
Dunno, 1 percent maybe in a few years when my sex drive wanes due to menopause :) But I agree, in general it's the icing on the cake, if there is no attraction, no spark, no wanting to be together, enjoying each other's company just because, then no amount of BDSM or sex can make it a healthy relationship, maybe a good play relationship (the BDSM equivalent to fuck buddies) and that's OK in itself... I have always compromised on the BDSM aspect of a relationship, much easier to find a good whipping post than to find a partner I want to be with and who's daft enough to be with me ;) Though if 2 people are really into each other and into the same BDSM aspects, for them it might be the logical continuation, it's just not for me, but as in everything YMMV

littlewonder -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/7/2012 1:10:44 AM)
a roof over my head and food and clothes on my back? No....anything else? Yes I'm a very loyal person. It takes a huge amount of something to make me want to leave. If I wanted to leave every single time I felt unhappy, I would have left a long long time ago lol. For me unhappiness is simply a regular part of my life due to major depression. After my husband died I realized that there's really not that much in life that's just not that important in the grand scheme of things. I think most people leave relationships way too quickly. For us, right from the beginning it was all about the M/s. We both knew exactly what we were looking for and had no desire to compromise and why we took a long time to get to know each other first. If the M/s relationship failed at any one time for us, I have a feeling he would no longer want to continue our relationship and that would be his choice. Our lives are intertwined with the M/s. It's who and what we are. For us there's simply no separation from anything else in our lives.

Englishcrumpet -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/7/2012 5:19:41 AM)
Personally, the whole notion of enslavement and loss of autonomy doesn't resonate with me. I am submissive, but I can't ever imagine losing my sense of self (or even of making BDSM the central aspect of my life, as what you are suggesting would seem to require). I can't imagine that I would ever want a relationship with a domme who was interested in the stuff you're suggesting. at the begining its sometimes hard to remind myself that i must be me, i have to be the person i am and if they like me then great and if they dont then everyone moves on. its too easy to be this pleasing, moldable 'thing' and try to fit them by squeezing my personality into a shape theyll like - but that never ends well in the end. autonomy and sense of self is really important to me - i couldnt in fact slip into enslavement if i felt those two things would be forfeit, so i do think its down to who youre with. personally i couldnt be with someone who lived and breathed BDSM all day long either, but Ms isnt dependent on that. i might be wrong but i get the feeling that the guys who enjoy play and afterwards resume an egalitarian balance equate Ms as a constant state of play - it isnt at all, its really the same as everyone else, except there is no egalitarianism, for me, by choice and prefferance and so theres no big deal on that, it just is.

Missokyst -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/7/2012 8:32:07 AM)
I totally understand the idea that people leave relationships too soon. It is your statement below which has me curious because I really believe that some people are into this stuff we do because it is hot and that heat carries over and gives on the desire to do what it takes to continue those feelings. And there are some people like myself, for whom there does not seem to be another choice. I enjoy the heat, but I don't require it to hang in there. I am one of those loyal till death type and I do know the path that led me here. But I often wonder about others who make statements like "[It's who and what we are. For us there's simply no separation from anything else in our lives] Was your major depression due to your husbands death? Or is it a clinical depression? quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder For me unhappiness is simply a regular part of my life due to major depression.

JeffBC -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/7/2012 9:07:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele I have trouble seeing what a domme would get out of it. I think it would quickly become tiresome. I suppose it could OK for fun and games as long as you don't see each other but as a long-term thing is just sounds boring and unsatisfying to me. I have too much going on in my life to watch someone to be totally dependent on me, or to be totally dependent on some one else. I mean, really, do people really make BDSM such a central aspect of their lives? To me it should be a (relatively) small part of the whole. Heh... and this is why it can be so hard sometimes to "get" someone else. Because honestly, Carol and I barely float around the edges of "BDSM". But even so, our viewpoint on this is so vastly different. For us, it is not "tiresome" for me to be in charge and Carol to obey. It's actually how we behave as a default. It is not "boring and unsatisfying" to us. The quiet but pervasive nature of the dynamic feeds us both... me directly and her indirectly. For us, BDSM is not exactly a "central aspect of our lives". Instead, "BDSM" is just the convenient label to use when talking to kinksters that describes central aspects of our personality and relationship. For us, the "central" part has nothing to do with bondage, discipline, sadism or masochism. The central part is authority and ownership.

KnightofMists -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/7/2012 4:03:29 PM)
quote: She is not a "slave in her heart". She never embraced slavery. She never wanted to be a slave. The idea of TPE does not thrill her. She just wants to bring her A game to the marriage so as long as I want a slave then that's what she is. Neither does Alanda. Never aspired to be a slave or dreamed and fantazied about that aspect. Frankly, never really thought about TPE or any of those lovely buzz words thrown around in the lifestyle. Hell... we lived the way we do... long before we became active and aware of this lifestyle. The labels was never important. It wasn't about Embracing some idea outside of herself our ourself. It was embracing who we are. Understanding what brought her happiness and what didn't. For some this comes easily. So easily it isn't a conscious thought or effort to do. Alandra is very much like that in alot of ways. She didn't think about being something other than herself and still doesn't. She is 'Alandra'.... be that label... the rest is only partial descriptions that are never complete. Hell... even the label Alandra is subject to change to some degree.... people evolve and grow.. I know Alandra has... and she embraces those changes of herself as well. Sometime easily... sometimes with alittle more of a struggle. Kyra is not alot different but yet there is some big differences. She came and knocked on the door of the lifestyle and met me. In some ways... her knocking on the door was a result of a lack of happiness in the path she was walking. In many ways, she didn't embrace herself for years as an adult and she didn't find happiness as a result. Short term gratifications.. yes... but happiness within herself was always elusive. She came into my life not to be a slave or aspire to be a slave. In fact, I was very much not trying to make anything of the sort. Your wife is similiar to Kyra in that she followed the flow of the relationship..or more her place in that flow. The more she eased herself into it the happier she felt and became. As we courted and learned about each other and slowly emersed ourselves into the relationship I was causing her to reflect on her inner self. On how she felt the more she emersed herself into us. She often compared the lack of happiness in previous relationships to the one she has with me. One that is very much different in her place within it. The more she embraced this part of herself... the deeper her happiness became. Which is so different than how she was raised. quote: Where that gets weird is that we've been together so long that it's really not possible to separate out what is "embracing her", "embracing me", and "embracing us". Pretty much always those three things are one and the same. Maybe it's fair enough to say that she's embracing that part of her that wants the best marriage she can get. I get this in a big way. It's really difficult to remember much of the way I felt when Alandra and I first began courting. A Particularly confusing time and alot of change occurring particular since we where both rather young back then. In some ways, I think we discovered alot about ourselves as individuals because of the relationship and as unique individuals we created a unique relationship as well. Both as individuals and a relationship we evolved and grew. Where is the line of embracing myself and my relationship with the girls. I can't begin to tell you. But, I can see certain things that are well away from the line that will never change. Part of my personality that just doesn't change because of the relationship. I can really see some of these things and so can the girls because of the on going intimate relationship I am having with the two girls. I am not one with the authority because my relationship brought it about. I am because that is what I need to have within my intimate relationships to be happy. Also, learned that I needed a tremendous amount of Transparency. I need my partners to know all my thoughts and feelings just as I need to know theirs. Of course there is other things too. Embracing these things of myself allows me to make a better choice of a compatiable partners. It would of been very foolhardy of me to bring Kyra into my life if she couldn't give me the obedience that would match the authority I need. I have passed up on possible relationships because of that issue. I didn't do so once... and it was a mess! It's hard to know oneself... But, I believe it is necessary if one wishes to thrive.

littlewonder -> RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy (5/7/2012 5:13:28 PM)
I've had it from as young as I can remember. It just fluctuates and sometimes gets stuck. When my husband died my depression crashed. It took me years to get back to what for me is normal. But his death didn't cause my depression. This is something that will never go away in my life as much as I pray and beg for it to go away. And what I mean is there is no separation, I mean this is just us. It's how we live every single minute of every single day. There's no time when I'm not his slave. There's no time when I am not subservient to him. No matter where we go, who we're with, I'm still his slave and he's still my Master. However, we both have pretty good social manners and know there's a time and a place for everything. There's a time for me to talk about my religion with people and be spiritual in public, there's a time for me to be the nagging mom in public and there's a time for me to be his slave in public.

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