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What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 3:13:50 PM

kalthus

Posts: 64
Joined: 4/17/2012
Status: offline

I'm new at the BDSM thing, and I'm told that being a nice guy (fairly shy on first meeting) makes it hard for people to actually see me in that role. I'd like to get an idea of what personality qualities subs relate t in order to make that initial snap judgement.

So -

Do you prefer confident or arrogant?
For a dom to be quite formal, or to very freely touch you (take your hand, arm, stroke your cheek - just assume it's OK for him to handle you?)
To ask questions about you, or give you orders?
To ask what you'd like to drink, or just order for you?
To comment on your clothes, but say what he would prefer to see you in.
To be very polite - almost posessively so. Leading you to your chair, holding the door open so you have to walk through it?
To openly ask you sexual questions, or to respect that this might be a bit embarrassing in a coffee shop?
To be critical of your behaviour, appearance, taste in music?
To be quite assertive with waiters, taxi drivers, etc, or come across asa generally nice guy?

Just trying to get a sense for what subs initially 'click' with.

Thanks,

Kalthus

Post #: 1

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 3:58:53 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalthus

Just trying to get a sense for what subs initially 'click' with.

No nonsense power will draw my attention faster than anything. Couple that with a great sense of humor (especially one which is just a wee bit demented) and a genuine love for leather and I'd say that's a good reason to start a conversation. mmv

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to kalthus)

Post #: 2

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 4:44:30 PM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

I'm a bit mystified by your comparisons here, do you come from another planet?
I'd like to ask utterly without snark, how it is that you don't know the qualities of a basic decent person? It's almost as though on one hand you are describing a decent average guy, and on the other an asshole. Dominants aren't necessarily assholes, or they shouldn't be simply by virtue of being Dominant. It's almost as though you took every negative Dominant characteristic and made a caricature of UberDom whose primary quality was one of nastiness, not leadership or Dominance. If someone embodied the assholish qualities in your comparison here, I'd never give him the time of day much less let him "freely" touch me - and make no mistake, I'd freaking call the cops if UberDom decided to do that or kick him in the nuts.

Sure, I'll answer your questions though, I'm sure you'll see a trend here and not only from me. I'm basing my answers here on the criteria you offered of it being an initial meeting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalthus

I'm new at the BDSM thing, and I'm told that being a nice guy (fairly shy on first meeting) makes it hard for people to actually see me in that role. I'd like to get an idea of what personality qualities subs relate t in order to make that initial snap judgement.

I'll make it easy on you. Personality qualities that submissives look for are those of a good leader. We respect fairness, good judgement, an awareness of pitfalls, the ability to put oneself behind the greater good, watching out for others, making the best of a situation, not being satisfied with less than the best effort, a take charge attitude, kindness, etc.

quote:

So -

Do you prefer confident or arrogant?

Confident. Arrogance is off-putting and something I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole- complete red flag material. The occasional flash of it is understandable and human, a constant flow of it makes someone I will go to great lengths to avoid if not actively put that person in their place. I'm quite capable in life, I don't suffer fools...arrogance is foolish and immature.

quote:

For a dom to be quite formal, or to very freely touch you (take your hand, arm, stroke your cheek - just assume it's OK for him to handle you?)

No touching, nada, until I know you and have given my consent. Red flag! If you touch freely you will suffer the consequences. I don't care if you called yourself a Dominant, that does not give you special privileges. I honestly can't believe OP, that you'd think this was ever ok for someone to assume they had special rights just because they slapped a Dominant label on themselves- that does not mean you have a license to go about putting hands on other people that labeled themselves a submissive or slave. Also, for me keeping your hands to yourself is not "quite formal", it's basic manners. So I'll say I reject both of your choices here and I'd prefer a Dom to have some normal social manners until I have decided I'd like to continue with him onto the next level of intimacy.

quote:

To ask questions about you, or give you orders?

He'd better ask me questions if I'm going to ever be interested in him. If he didn't care enough to get to know me, then by virtue of that I'd not care to know him. Again, no questions about me would be a red flag. I'd be looking for a connection between us, I don't think I'd find one with someone who cared so little that getting to know me didn't even count in his book.

If someone I just met gave me orders he'd find himself being laughed at hysterically and then when I regrouped, I'd get up and leave. Red flag. That's ridiculous. However, if it were someone I'd met before and decided I wanted to continue with, an order might be ok. Depends on the order at that early stage of the game. If it were someone I was committed to, I'd expect him to give me an order. See how that works? A lot of the things you're proposing would be ok if the two people involved had agreed to be in this dynamic together- on a first meeting however it would be bizarre to me that a Dominant would assume these things would ok.

quote:

To ask what you'd like to drink, or just order for you?

On a first meeting it isn't a great idea to just order for someone, what about food allergies or preferences? If he said to me "I recommend the vanilla cappuccino here, it's wonderful", that would be a good thing to hear, and I would have the perfect opportunity to say "Gosh, I'm lactose intolerant. I'll take a black coffee instead, but thanks for the suggestion." If I knew the guy down the road then yes, he could order for me since he'd be able to do so without putting me at a disadvantage. It's all about being a good leader. What kind of good leader would assume that he knew best without doing the groundwork and finding out if you had issues with certain things? The whole thing about being a good leader is knowing how and when to educate yourself- if he assumed without verifying another red flag.

quote:

To comment on your clothes, but say what he would prefer to see you in.

On a first meeting when he's trying to impress me it would be better wouldn't it, to say that he thought I looked nice? But only if he meant it, meaningless compliments are always yuck. He could seque into saying that he always had a fondness for skirts, and if I were liking him I'd file that away for the future. But telling me what his preferences are before we had a relationship on a first meeting is just silly and makes him look like an assuming dweeb and would be a red flag pointing to him having poor boundaries.

quote:

To be very polite - almost posessively so. Leading you to your chair, holding the door open so you have to walk through it?

Very polite, yes. Nice. My Dom was extremely polite and had a possessive edge at our first meeting, he made it clear that he liked what he saw and wanted it, but he still respected my personal space and what he did came off as excellent manners and not 'possessiveness'. Still, I knew he was very interested in me and I found that attractive. I think that's a hard line to keep on the right side of- on a first meeting i'd recommend staying on the more circumspect side since there's only been this one man I'd ever met that had just the right touch with it. If anyone comes off to me as claiming something (me) that wasn't given to him yet it puts me off and you guessed it, would be a red flag.

quote:

To openly ask you sexual questions, or to respect that this might be a bit embarrassing in a coffee shop?

Whoa Nelly, red flag. NO sexual questions on a first meeting. In email contacts too I tend to leave anyone who asks sexual questions in the dust. It says to me that is what they're about, and I am not. It says you don't respect common social boundaries. Do you ask sexual questions on a vanilla date? A first meeting between a Dominant and a submissive is the SAME as a vanilla date, its to see if there is common ground, period. There are no special privileges because you bring D/s into the picture. I realize this is just me, to others maybe sexual questions are fine. Do you meet people at a party and jump right into asking them about their sex lives?

If I met someone from here, I'd see their profile, which should have some sexual preferences on their profile. That would give me the idea of I were on the same page with them or not. If I exchanged emails with them prior to this meeting then I may know another general tidbit or two, but all out sexual questioning in my mind is for when sex is on the table. Sex usually isn't on the table for the first meeting and would usually be inappropriate. I'd wish anyone I were considering getting involved with to know that little rule of thumb of interacting with someone of the opposite sex. If a guy I met were asking sexual questions right away on a first meeting, it would seem icky to me and that I'd wish to stay away from someone that had such poor social skills and who didn't respect my boundaries at that stage of the game.

quote:

To be critical of your behaviour, appearance, taste in music?

Wtf....really? What would that prove if someone sat with me when I'd agreed to give him my time for a meeting, and subsequently put out the worst social move ever and criticized me? If someone actually did this all I would think was "asshole" and end the date asap. Yup, red flag. Once again, if someone were socially savvy and said "Gosh, there are few better things in life than listening to a properly done symphony....modern music is missing out on a lot of grandeur." Then that of course is food for thought. If I loved punk music for instance, maybe I'd start listening to more classical music because his comment intrigued me. But for him to criticize me? Bleah.

quote:

To be quite assertive with waiters, taxi drivers, etc, or come across asa generally nice guy?

Women watch how men treat people like restaurant servers, attendants, and those in menial jobs. The sign of a decent person is how they do this. Being quite assertive might come across as being an asshole and most of us would no longer give you the time of day if you were an asshole to others. Red flag there. Generally nice guys have a lot going for them, including the fact that they seem like good leaders don't they?

quote:

Just trying to get a sense for what subs initially 'click' with.

Thanks,

Kalthus

(in reply to kalthus)

Post #: 3

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 5:00:49 PM

amaidiamond

Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline

Do you prefer confident or arrogant? Confident - Arrogant is so offputting
For a dom to be quite formal, or to very freely touch you (take your hand, arm, stroke your cheek - just assume it's OK for him to handle you?) - Anyone"just assumed" they could touch/handle me would be risking a kick to the balls or an assalt charge.
To ask questions about you, or give you orders? - Ask questions, some guy gives me orders on a first date it will be his only date.
To ask what you'd like to drink, or just order for you? - Ask, until I have consented to a dynamic with someone they have no control over me
To comment on your clothes, but say what he would prefer to see you in. - By all means tell me if he likes what i am wearing but if he stepped into trying to dominate me without a dynamic/consent there would be an issue
To be very polite - almost posessively so. Leading you to your chair, holding the door open so you have to walk through it? - politeness is always good
To openly ask you sexual questions, or to respect that this might be a bit embarrassing in a coffee shop? - HUGE no no on the sexual questions
To be critical of your behaviour, appearance, taste in music? - Only if he doesn't want to see me again, again that is not his place before a relationship dynamic is established.
To be quite assertive with waiters, taxi drivers, etc, or come across asa generally nice guy? - Nice guy, assertive with service staff can often come over as assholeish

_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation... I can find the way all by myself!

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 4

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 5:07:47 PM

Kaliko

Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalthus

I'm new at the BDSM thing, and I'm told that being a nice guy (fairly shy on first meeting) makes it hard for people to actually see me in that role. I'd like to get an idea of what personality qualities subs relate t in order to make that initial snap judgement.

So -

Do you prefer confident or arrogant?
For a dom to be quite formal, or to very freely touch you (take your hand, arm, stroke your cheek - just assume it's OK for him to handle you?)
To ask questions about you, or give you orders?
To ask what you'd like to drink, or just order for you?
To comment on your clothes, but say what he would prefer to see you in.
To be very polite - almost posessively so. Leading you to your chair, holding the door open so you have to walk through it?
To openly ask you sexual questions, or to respect that this might be a bit embarrassing in a coffee shop?
To be critical of your behaviour, appearance, taste in music?
To be quite assertive with waiters, taxi drivers, etc, or come across asa generally nice guy?

Just trying to get a sense for what subs initially 'click' with.

Thanks,

Kalthus

I think, being new to it all, it is a fair enough question. There is enough bad information out there so that it certainly could have made its way over to you that this is what we (submissives) are looking for.

Lizi had all around great answers for you. Of course, there will always be variations.

I don't mind some arrogance. I'm pleasantly arrogant myself (so I've been told) and I prefer a man who can meet my demeanor and not be put off by it.

I also don't mind touching that hasn't been previously approved by me. In fact, I quite like the types that you've mentioned - touching the cheek, taking the hand. Groping would not be recommended, but touches to show affection and attraction? Sure.

I used to think I was okay talking about sexual questions right up front, but my experience these past few months have changed my mind about that, so now I prefer to hold off on those types of discussions.

I don't mind an order or two, I suppose, depending on what that is. If he tells me to move my chair closer to him - yes, I'll do it. If he tells me to start fingering myself under the table? Probably not.

I also don't think what you've described as possessively polite is possessive at all. I think it's just polite. I prefer to be treated in that manner.

I am okay with anyone being critical of my taste in anything. I know what I like, and I will be happy to debate it, take suggestions, be convinced otherwise, or to just take it with a grain of salt and know that we all have different tastes. Just so long as I can also be free to poke fun at you for something ridiculous that you choose to do, as well. I would very much not like a relationship in which we can't poke fun at one another, D/s or otherwise. If you don't handle that well (or, if I don't handle it well), then it's not a good match.

Assertiveness with waitstaff and the like? No. I don't like that. Just be polite and understanding.

ETA - I keep thinking of things to add!

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 5/6/2012 5:14:43 PM >

(in reply to kalthus)

Post #: 5

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 5:25:45 PM

poise

Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalthus

I'm new at the BDSM thing, and I'm told that being a nice guy (fairly shy on first meeting) makes it hard for
people to actually see me in that role.

Knowing the qualities that I look for in a man aren't going to help you any, because you can't magically
become that man. If there is one quality most attractive for me, it would be authenticity.

I have concern over your definitions of dominant behavior, and I also question your belief that mimicking
the qualities that other men possess could somehow make you appear to be dominant.
Be yourself. Know yourself. Be authentic.

_____________________________

When the path ignites a soul, there’s no remaining in place.

(in reply to kalthus)

Post #: 6

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 6:41:46 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

So you're new to this "BDSM thing"? I have the answer you are looking for. There is no BDSM thing to be new to. There's just life. Scattered in that life are some other humans. Some of those other humans will like you... others not so much. If you have burning curiosity about their sexual preferences upon the first meeting then go ahead and ask. In the process you will be clearly identifying who and what you are to the person you're talking to. Some will find that sexy or dominant. Others will find it rude and crude.

So how about you just be yourself and let the other people who think that qualifies as "dominant" choose you. The folks who see it as vanilla or submissive or crude or whatever will not choose you. Everything works out well, neh?

Predictably, I like poise's answer. She's driving at the same thing I am from a different direction.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to kalthus)

Post #: 7

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 7:03:42 PM

Kaliko

Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

So how about you just be yourself and let the other people who think that qualifies as "dominant" choose you. The folks who see it as vanilla or submissive or crude or whatever will not choose you. Everything works out well, neh?

I disagree. I can only describe it, I suppose, from my own submissive experience. If I came here years back asking questions and I was told to just "be myself" - I wouldn't know what that means. I was already myself. I still had questions. For example:

I may have had the momentary and sexual urge to address someone as "Sir" among first email correspondence. I didn't know any better that to do so places me in a vulnerable position, that it made me appear a certain way, and exposed my inexperience.

I may have thought that signing a contract prior to meeting was the norm. I didn't know that to do so means nothing and that it's ridiculous.

I may have thought that to be submissive means never disagreeing. I didn't know that submissives can often be appreciated for being strong.

With these and other unknowns, I was being "myself." How was I to learn unless I came and asked what was expected among people who were more experienced than I? Isn't that ultimately a major reason that these message boards are even here?

I'm sorry. I think to tell someone to "be yourself" is to be somewhat selfish in sharing our experiences that time has given us and what we've learned. We can sit back and stroke our chins wisely and say "Be yourself" but really...how does that help him? He needs to know how not to be a dick in an environment in which, at all angles on his internet screen, ads are screaming at him to be just that.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 8

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 7:19:35 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

Ok to all of the questions you asked....both. I like a man who knows when to be one or the other. I like a man who understands social graces. I want a man isn't shy though or has self esteem problems. I want a man who always asks before he does something but yet will communicate with me and show me he takes me into consideration once in awhile.

I like a man who loves and adores me.

Thankfully that's exactly what I have.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 5/6/2012 7:21:01 PM >

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Kaliko)

Post #: 9

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 7:25:06 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Confidence in himself is essential. Confident in what he can do and equally sure of what things he can't and therefore he won't go there.

If I'm on a date, and that's what that first meet in the coffee shop is, a first date, then I'm not going to respond well to behavior that would be boorish and unacceptable if it came from a vanilla guy. Ordering me about, demanding I talk sexually when I haven't decided yet if I even want to have sex with him. All that is a red flag and would result in me saying goodbye immediately.

Most of all op, it isn't a set of behaviors and activities that you can put on like an ill fitting coat. You have to be yourself, because eventually you can't keep acting all the time. And if the woman feels a connection to the guy you were pretending to be, and not to the real you, she's going to be pretty pissed at you for lying to her.

If you need to learn confidence in topping skill sets, then go do that now. Sign up for workshops, practice flogging pillows and tying chairs.

If you lack social confidence, join Toastmasters and learn it there. Take martial arts to more centered.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Kaliko)

Post #: 10

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 10:36:43 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko
I disagree. I can only describe it, I suppose, from my own submissive experience.

And you are, of course, entitled to see it differently. That is exactly my point. You're "learnings" which you see as "positive" I do not. So in "learning" more about "submissives" you would have lost a person like me who really just wanted the authentic you. Dealing with an awkward but honest "Sir" is charming to me even though I dislike being called "Sir" by random strangers. A smokescreen of "proper submissive behavior" would have lost my interest quickly. The desire to protect yourself from vulnerability would have been a full-on red flag. So you're learning improved your chances with some guys and lowered your chances with others. That's the rub. You can try to be this or that but inevitably whatever it is that you are currently being is only going to appeal to some people. So why not simply be yourself?

I stick with my original advice to the OP. Be yourself. If who that is ends up being a dick in the eyes of most people then so be it. Personally, I'm going to guess that his "self" is not a dick and if he stops listening to internet memes about how doms ought to be he'll do fine with being himself.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Kaliko)

Post #: 11

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 11:04:47 PM

kalthus

Posts: 64
Joined: 4/17/2012
Status: offline

Thanks to everyone who has responded - I'm pleased to see I've opened up a bit of a debate here!

The interesting thing is that there seems to be NO debate about how you like to see waiters treated. I've always believed that the best way of judging someone is how they treat people who they aren't trying to impress. Went on a date once with a woman who was absolutely lovely to me, but a right bitch to our waitress. That told me all I needed to know.

I think the point I was trying to make was that if I meet someone who describes themselves as a submissive - and thats their view not mine - are they going to be looking for my more forceful characteristics? If I'm too stand offiish with them, too polite, would they see that as unattractive? But what sort of things cross the line?

I also love the point that Poise made about 'being yourself.'' I agree, but first dates are a bit like a job interview. You have a short time to give the right impression. If I was with someone I knew (and I do get that the best way to meet people is through events, munches etc) they would have time to discover that under my polite, charming, sweet exterior is an assertive chap with a wealth of depraved imagination . In a short date to see if there's a spark, no one has that luxury. You have to present the elements of yourself they want to see, and do it PDQ. It's not lying, it's just best foot forward and all that.

Overall, I like the idea that the best level to hit is the non-boorish, but generally confident 'leader'. But all other comments very welcome!

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 12

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 11:24:09 PM

myotherself

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

There was a time when I was in the same position as you, Kalthus. I had no idea what 'being a dominant' or 'being a submissive' meant in the real world.

I met several guys for coffee, and learned a lot about myself from those fleeting acquaintances. The ones who 'acted' domly did nothing for me. I didn't feel submissive towards them and, to be honest, some of them came across as embarrassingly crass.

I met a couple who just came as themselves. No airs and graces, just a man meeting a woman for the first time. We talked about work, music, theatre, politics, family - all that stuff that strangers looking to make a connection will discuss.

And over the space of that meeting I could feel the stirrings of submission.

One of those 'meets' turned into my first D/s relationship. The others turned into friends I still cherish nearly a decade later.

My first meet with Master was in a coffee shop in a shopping mall. We were going to chat for half an hour - it turned into two hours. He bought the first coffee, I bought the second. He laughed at my taste in music, I laughed at his. We both agreed that our mutual taste in movies put us in the top 5% of freaks and weirdos in the UK

And by the end of that meeting I knew I'd be kneeling for him. Not that date, not the next, maybe not even a month down the line, but some day. And when it happened, it felt so amazing.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to kalthus)

Post #: 13

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 11:24:11 PM

subbyinlosangele

Posts: 117
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalthus

I'm new at the BDSM thing, and I'm told that being a nice guy (fairly shy on first meeting) makes it hard for people to actually see me in that role. I'd like to get an idea of what personality qualities subs relate t in order to make that initial snap judgement.

So -

Do you prefer confident or arrogant?
For a dom to be quite formal, or to very freely touch you (take your hand, arm, stroke your cheek - just assume it's OK for him to handle you?)
To ask questions about you, or give you orders?
To ask what you'd like to drink, or just order for you?
To comment on your clothes, but say what he would prefer to see you in.
To be very polite - almost posessively so. Leading you to your chair, holding the door open so you have to walk through it?
To openly ask you sexual questions, or to respect that this might be a bit embarrassing in a coffee shop?
To be critical of your behaviour, appearance, taste in music?
To be quite assertive with waiters, taxi drivers, etc, or come across asa generally nice guy?

Just trying to get a sense for what subs initially 'click' with.

Thanks,

Kalthus

I don't mean to offend, but you're coming off as pretty clueless. There isn't a checklist of behaviors that most subs like. Everybody has different kinks and "clicks" with different people, but we only "click" with people who are acting like themselves. Mostly what people prefer is genuineness. Dom/dommes can have every personality type you can imagine -- just like everybody else. So quit worrying about "what qualities make a dom" and just be yourself. Because it you try to pretend qualities that aren't really you, people will see through it in a second, and you won't be able to keep it up long.

(in reply to kalthus)

Post #: 14

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/6/2012 11:40:12 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele

Because it you try to pretend qualities that aren't really you, people will see through it in a second, and you won't be able to keep it up long.

Apart from the fact, who wants to be with a person who isn't attracted to you but to the front you are desperately trying to keep up?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to subbyinlosangele)

Post #: 15

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/7/2012 3:30:42 AM

Kaliko

Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko
I disagree. I can only describe it, I suppose, from my own submissive experience.

And you are, of course, entitled to see it differently. That is exactly my point. You're "learnings" which you see as "positive" I do not. So in "learning" more about "submissives" you would have lost a person like me who really just wanted the authentic you. Dealing with an awkward but honest "Sir" is charming to me even though I dislike being called "Sir" by random strangers. A smokescreen of "proper submissive behavior" would have lost my interest quickly. The desire to protect yourself from vulnerability would have been a full-on red flag. So you're learning improved your chances with some guys and lowered your chances with others. That's the rub. You can try to be this or that but inevitably whatever it is that you are currently being is only going to appeal to some people. So why not simply be yourself?

I stick with my original advice to the OP. Be yourself. If who that is ends up being a dick in the eyes of most people then so be it. Personally, I'm going to guess that his "self" is not a dick and if he stops listening to internet memes about how doms ought to be he'll do fine with being himself.

LOL - Now I disagree even more! :)

Listen, I've done the thing where I was in love with my partner, and he was in love with me, and we both had a safe haven in which to explore these types of things and I didn't have to worry about being taken advantage of. Most dominant men that I meet now, though, to my knowledge, are not already in love with me. And though I generally trust people until they prove untrustworthy, I also try not to be an idiot about it. An awkward but honest "Sir" being appealing to a man that doesn't already know me and care for me comes off to me as creepy and predatory and I would steer clear of him - if I knew enough to do so.

Now, I understand the difference between a female submissive "out there looking" and a male dominant "out there looking." A male dominant may not have these same concerns, such as protecting vulnerability and avoiding being taken advantage of. But I would imagine that he must have similar concerns about what is expected of him versus what he really should or should not be doing.

I am certainly not suggesting that any man (or woman) be anything less than himself (or herself). But there are just certain things you do, and certain things you don't do, and sometimes you don't always know these things instinctively. You have to learn these things - like learning not to wear a hat in a restaurant, or learning to bring a hostess gift when invited to someone's home. We learn the expectations of others in whatever groups we are a part of and then we determine whether we will act accordingly or not. Why would this be any different? We can't possibly all be ourselves all the time and throw behavioral expectations out to the curb. It would be chaos.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 16

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/7/2012 3:32:56 AM

boundforfreedom

Posts: 4
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline

I think that being yourself, not trying to fit into the mold that you think women are looking for, will find you in the best possible situation. When you work hard to be what others want, it causes you to appear fake. not really a great trait for anyone.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 17

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/7/2012 3:45:41 AM

kalthus

Posts: 64
Joined: 4/17/2012
Status: offline

I don't mean to offend, but you're coming off as pretty clueless.

Gosh, how could I possibly take offense at that?

Clueless is a bit harsh. If you look at the first option, I'm generally moving from what I think is polite, reasonable etc, to the kind of uber-domish assholery that people complain about. I'm aware that throwing someone over a table and tonsil-wrestling her into submission isn't going to work, but what I'm getting at is - when does 'polite' become 'wimpy'?

To give you an example - I ran into a debate a while ago about munches. Some people felt that anyone who considered themselves a Dom shouldn't be met by a greeter. It's Ok for subs to be a bit nervous and shy, but it's 'unDommish'. How can you even think you'd be able to dominate someone when you don't have the nerve to walk into a pub? So clearly, there ARE people who have these expectations.

I take the point about 'just be yourself', but as with any dating, you don't have a long time to make a good impression. Its kind of like saying 'look, you're normally a bit of a slob, so why not turn up to meet her in ripped jeans and a Greateful Dead Tour shirt, bitch endlessly about your boss, the cancellation of 'Firefly' and - seriously - how often do you actually wear aftershave or polish those shoes? So why are you doing that?' Its natural to make an effort, and I think it's just as natural to 'be on your best behaviour.' Not lying or anything, I agree thats pointless, but just - making an effort.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 18

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/7/2012 4:14:39 AM

RaspberryLemon

Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalthus
I'm new at the BDSM thing, and I'm told that being a nice guy (fairly shy on first meeting) makes it hard for people to actually see me in that role. I'd like to get an idea of what personality qualities subs relate t in order to make that initial snap judgement.

You will find that the traits potentials will respond well to are rather subjective. Not everyone wants or likes the same things or the same personality traits/types. So asking very specific questions won't get you very far (though I will answer them to give you a general idea of things, at least from my perspective.)

I did like lizi's way of putting this though, and it is a good start/rule of thumb in general:

quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi
I'll make it easy on you. Personality qualities that submissives look for are those of a good leader. We respect fairness, good judgement, an awareness of pitfalls, the ability to put oneself behind the greater good, watching out for others, making the best of a situation, not being satisfied with less than the best effort, a take charge attitude, kindness, etc.

quote:

Do you prefer confident or arrogant?

Confidence is attractive and important to me. And in some cases, there are those who can pull off a sort of playful arrogance as well. However, actual arrogance--acting as though others are inferior--is just off-putting and not something I can respect or appreciate and it's a good indication that the person is NOT good leader material.

quote:

For a dom to be quite formal, or to very freely touch you (take your hand, arm, stroke your cheek - just assume it's OK for him to handle you?)

Here's the thing. I don't know whether or not you are asking what I prefer from someone who owns me, or from someone I just met.

If this is someone I just met or someone I have not surrendered myself to, he best not be putting his hands on me in any non-platonic context (handshaking as a greeting, for instance, is obviously ok.) Someone thinking that the self-appointed title of "dominant" gives them the right to freely handle me will get a swift kick in the ass--in no uncertain terms, they will know that it is NOT ok.

If we are talking about my Master, the man who owns me--of course I want him to freely touch and handle me as he pleases. I am his property, after all. He has every right to. I love being touched by him. But this is under the context that I have already committed and surrendered myself to him.

quote:

To ask questions about you, or give you orders?

Once again, is this my owner, or a person I've just met?

I would scoff if someone who has no right to ownership of me tried to give me orders. I am very hardheaded and stubborn and behavior like this would get a very assertive defensive reaction. If I've not given this person authority over me, who the hell do they think they are trying to order me around? It would come across to me as utterly unfounded and rude.

From my Master, he may give me orders as he pleases and ask questions as he pleases. When I met him and in the beginning of our relationship he asked many, many questions about me in order to get to know me--likewise, I asked him questions. Just normal social interaction of two people becoming familiar with each other. If he did not put forth the effort and show the interest to get to know me well, I would not have considered him someone I could trust myself to.

quote:

To ask what you'd like to drink, or just order for you?

Unless this is someone I've agreed to an authority dynamic with, I'd expect to be ordering my own drink or for him to ask. Otherwise they've got no business trying to make decisions for me.

My Master may order for me if he'd like. Sometimes he does. Often times I do like when he does, as I have a hard time choosing what I want to eat/drink sometimes. He knows my preferences and whatnot, and so I'm perfectly comfortable letting him decide things for me--simple things like what drink to get, or bigger, more important things as well.

quote:

To comment on your clothes, but say what he would prefer to see you in.

If someone wants to give me a(n) (appropriate) compliment, that's fine and dandy as long as it's sincere. However, the only person who should be telling me what he prefers me to wear should be my Master. Once again, he has the right to this because he owns me--I consented to this dynamic. Without there being a relationship, I would consider it rude and downright inappropriate for someone to try and assert their preferences on what I chose to wear.

quote:

To be very polite - almost posessively so. Leading you to your chair, holding the door open so you have to walk through it?

Polite is good, especially during initial interactions with someone when you would be overstepping boundaries to act more familiar/casual around them.

Not sure I agree that politeness is really "possessive" in any sense, though. However I will say that I love, love, love the possessiveness my Master displays towards me. Openly claiming me as his via his behavior is something I really like seeing. However, it would really bother me if someone I did NOT belong to tried to act possessive of me. If I'm not there's, they shouldn't be acting like I am.

quote:

To openly ask you sexual questions, or to respect that this might be a bit embarrassing in a coffee shop?

I'd be pretty uncomfortable with someone who didn't know me very personally asking me sexual questions. Other than that I am pretty open about it--I don't advertise my sex life but if a close friend is curious and asks a question or we are having a conversation about sex, I don't really get embarrassed about it. And of course, if my Master asked me a question, any question--sexual or not--I'd be obligated to answer.

quote:

To be critical of your behaviour, appearance, taste in music?

Depends on what you mean by "critical." I don't really want someone I barely know to be criticizing my behavior or appearance--I would consider it an affront to my person in that context. But if they want to give an honest opinion about my or their taste in music or the like, I have no problem with that. Just conversation, and as long as it remains friendly I have no problem discussing different preferences/viewpoints on music, politics, etc.

I am fine with my Master giving me directions on how he wishes me to behave/dress. I wish to please him and I'm all ears for information on how to do that better.

quote:

To be quite assertive with waiters, taxi drivers, etc, or come across asa generally nice guy?

Assertive does not mean rude or domineering. It means confident and forward. Which can be done in a perfectly polite, understanding, and kind manner. So my answer to this question is "both." Being politely assertive is a good trait for anyone to have, in my opinion. It shows you are both a kind person, and that you are very self-actualized and confident.

In conclusion, I'll say again that individual preferences on these things will vary. So the answers you will get in this thread, while giving you statistic information, won't really point to what a potential partner of yours will want. Furthermore, I'd like to agree with some of the others and say that really, you shouldn't try to build up a preconceived way you "should" be as a dominant. What you "should" be doing is being yourself--this is the best and quickest method of finding someone truly compatible with you.

In addition, what is acceptable or not acceptable, expected or not expected, is entirely dependent on whether or not there is a relationship in place with the person. Before you agree upon a dynamic with someone you are interested in as a submissive partner, they should be treated as any normal date or potential partner.

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 19

RE: What qualities make a Dom? - 5/7/2012 4:47:01 AM

kitkat105

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: poise

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalthus

I'm new at the BDSM thing, and I'm told that being a nice guy (fairly shy on first meeting) makes it hard for
people to actually see me in that role.

Knowing the qualities that I look for in a man aren't going to help you any, because you can't magically
become that man. If there is one quality most attractive for me, it would be authenticity.

I have concern over your definitions of dominant behavior, and I also question your belief that mimicking
the qualities that other men possess could somehow make you appear to be dominant.
Be yourself. Know yourself. Be authentic.

As always, poise manages to say what I'm thinking also!

I'd add that while a lot of us may be attracted to similar traits in Dominants, that doesn't mean there is a standard definition to what makes them Dominant. Every submissive is attracted to different traits and prioritises them accordingly.

Authenticity, confidence, sense of humour, intelligence, assertiveness, respectful, empathetic... these are all qualities I enjoy in my Dominant. Since I am in a relationship, yes, he can touch me whenever he wants and yes I will usually follow orders. I certainly would not of another Dominant because they are nothing to me!

_____________________________

"WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS!"

Odeen's spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down

Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags

Secretary - ProSubs"R"Us

(in reply to poise)

Post #: 20

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