RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist

RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/7/2012 7:04:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse If I'm not mistaken, HOG groups have shown up at a funeral or two and this church left town in a hurry. It should happen more often. HOG groups are choirboys.

Hillwilliam -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/7/2012 7:05:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Do you really think 81 would solve this problem in uniform? I said nothing about 81 OR a uniform. I'm talking about 1%er bikers who just don't give a fuck. Please read the post before you answer. As for solving the problem, if they're dead, the problem will cease to exist.

thompsonx -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/7/2012 7:13:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Do you really think 81 would solve this problem in uniform? I said nothing about 81 OR a uniform. I'm talking about 1%er bikers who just don't give a fuck. Please read the post before you answer. quote: I'm eagerly awaiting the day when they protest the funeral of a soldier whos dad or brother is a Hell's Angel 81 is a nick for the hells angles. The 8th letter of the alphabet is h, the first letter of the alphabet is a...ha...hells angels. Colors=patch=hells angels logo on jacket=uniform

Restraint4TGs -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/7/2012 7:46:45 PM)
When confronted forcefully at a demonstration by people who are offended enough by their presence to risk fisticuffs or violence they tend to leave immediately. They often have children with them at the demonstrations. On the other hand the place where they live in Topeka, Kansas is built like a compound, with high walls, screening hedges, and the entire area is scanned by CCTV. They own an entire city block and the properties in that block are all fenced off so although each home has a front yard of its own, the back yards are all communal for group functions. Every single home had a garage so none of them left vehicles on the street, which must've been a requirement seeing as I could see painted over graffiti in several spots. They must pay thousands in vandalism damage alone since I could not see any company insuring them with their views and attendant risk. They've had two suspicious fires there over the past several years. While I took a look at their compound a boy of about ten years of age came by and took a picture of me, and generally watched me from a front gate just to make sure I wasn't going to do anything. I have no doubt that if he gave a shout of alarm there would have been armed support at his back in seconds. They might be fruit loops but they aren't fools.

thishereboi -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 6:28:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: The church boasts of conducting 47,770 demonstrations since 1991 proclaiming its gospel of hate— Do they realize that.s 6.23 demonstrations/day? What ever happened to "Thou Shalt Not Lie"? Can someone explain to me how these groups get the money to travel to and do all these demonstrations (obviously they must not have jobs). Who is behind their funding? One way I can think of...Other homophobes read about them in the paper and send them money.

Aswad -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 6:34:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess So sad that they couldn't take this money and do something more objectively positive with it. [...] Although, obviously they have convinced themselves that their own salvation is hinged upon running these demonstrations. You seem to be misunderstanding a key issue. From their point of view, their own salvation isn't determined by their actions. Instead, their predetermined actions demonstrate that their salvation has been decided. At the moment of creation, all of the universe's future history was written, in their view. The author decided which characters in the story would attain salvation, and wrote the story so those characters would evidence their predestined salvation through their affiliation with the WBC. They don't decide on their own actions and shape their own role in the world. Instead, their actions just reveal who they are in a story that has already been written. Pretty bleak worldview. IWYW, - Aswad.

Hillwilliam -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 6:36:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Do you really think 81 would solve this problem in uniform? I said nothing about 81 OR a uniform. I'm talking about 1%er bikers who just don't give a fuck. Please read the post before you answer. quote: I'm eagerly awaiting the day when they protest the funeral of a soldier whos dad or brother is a Hell's Angel 81 is a nick for the hells angles. The 8th letter of the alphabet is h, the first letter of the alphabet is a...ha...hells angels. Colors=patch=hells angels logo on jacket=uniform TY. I'm on the east coast in the mountains where Outlaws and Ghost Riders are much more prevalent. The Ghost Riders (Mother chapter here) have toned their act down tremendously in the last decade or so but the Outlaws in Knoxville are trying to make up for it. To answer your question, I absolutely think they would solve the problem while wearing their club colors. They take tremendous pride in what they do.

Marc2b -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 8:15:31 AM)
The Westboro Baptist Church brings out the worst in me. No vitriol directed at them seems vile enough to describe the utter contempt and disgust that I feel for them. Yet ultimately, I find myself pitying them. They have completely ensconced themselves from the joys of genuine human contact and love. They have closed themselves off from learning, from change, from growth. They are provincialism imploded. The place where their minds and souls dwell must be a very ugly place, a very lonely place... and a very frightening place. The fact that some of them born into this miserable madness have been able to break away (and at enormousness cost for it is natural to love your family but never easy when you don't like those you love) is a triumph of the human spirit and a refutation of Karl Marx's adage: give me a child until he is five and he is mine for life. ------------------ Just a thought. If we are preordained by God to Heaven or Hell... why act morally at all? If I am destined to spend eternity screaming in agony as I writhe in flames... why shouldn't I have fun now and not indulge myself in every wanton, dark and depraved instinct I've ever had?

Moonhead -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 8:35:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b Yet ultimately, I find myself pitying them. They have completely ensconced themselves from the joys of genuine human contact and love. They have closed themselves off from learning, from change, from growth. They are provincialism imploded. The place where their minds and souls dwell must be a very ugly place, a very lonely place... and a very frightening place. I'd possibly feel pity if it wasn't a self inflicted problem. (I doubt it, though.)

fucktoyprincess -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 1:57:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess So sad that they couldn't take this money and do something more objectively positive with it. [...] Although, obviously they have convinced themselves that their own salvation is hinged upon running these demonstrations. You seem to be misunderstanding a key issue. From their point of view, their own salvation isn't determined by their actions. Instead, their predetermined actions demonstrate that their salvation has been decided. At the moment of creation, all of the universe's future history was written, in their view. The author decided which characters in the story would attain salvation, and wrote the story so those characters would evidence their predestined salvation through their affiliation with the WBC. They don't decide on their own actions and shape their own role in the world. Instead, their actions just reveal who they are in a story that has already been written. Pretty bleak worldview. IWYW, - Aswad. So, regardless, this Calvinist predestination approach still requires them to be hateful (whether it is a playing out of destiny, or whether it is an active choice). The point I was making is really very simple and still holds even by Calvinist predestination concepts. They feel they must do what they do. That there is no other way. And I, personally, think that is very sad.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 2:01:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b Yet ultimately, I find myself pitying them. They have completely ensconced themselves from the joys of genuine human contact and love. They have closed themselves off from learning, from change, from growth. They are provincialism imploded. The place where their minds and souls dwell must be a very ugly place, a very lonely place... and a very frightening place. The fact that some of them born into this miserable madness have been able to break away (and at enormousness cost for it is natural to love your family but never easy when you don't like those you love) is a triumph of the human spirit and a refutation of Karl Marx's adage: give me a child until he is five and he is mine for life. In the ways you describe above they are no different from many cults around the world that brainwash their followers and impose rigid rules for the "privilege" of belonging, prevent people from trying to leave and impose harsh penalties for those who try to get away. Maybe we should start calling this what it is - a religious cult (with their own flavor of Kool-Aid.)

deathtothepixies -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 5:49:29 PM)
I find it utterly offensive that a country that spends so much time and money bombing and killing people in other countries allows this sort of hatred to thrive in its own country. What kind of freedom is America pushing? A really hypocritical kind. You fuel the fire of hatred for people in other countries who spout the same vitriolic shit yet you can't do jack about these evil hate peddlers. How many thousands, tens of thousands of innocent people will die at the hands of American weapons while WBC continues its campaign of religious fear and contempt? Shame on you

dcnovice -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 6:23:25 PM)
I can't help noticing that you and the Westboro folks seem to share a consuming hatred for America, and your verbal styles seem eerily alike.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 6:26:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice I can't help noticing that you and the Westboro folks seem to share a consuming hatred for America, and your verbal styles seem eerily alike. We've been infiltrated. Now I am scared. Note to self. Do NOT drink Kool-Aid. Whatever the flavor.[:o]

thompsonx -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/8/2012 8:40:29 PM)
quote: To answer your question, I absolutely think they would solve the problem while wearing their club colors. They take tremendous pride in what they do. The hells angels of today, while still the same as always, have acquired a new immage of using the legal system to deal with their issues. Copyright violations concerning their name or logo are now handled in court instead of the "old fashion way". The ongoing pissing contest with the stones was the catalist that caused the change. Yes there was that little dance at the fairgrounds in costa mesa and the shooting in laughlin, both done in uniform because it was company business. Thumping wb would be clandestin because wb are essentially "civilians" and the hells angels are quite aware of the litigious nature of wb. I have listened in to several "spirited" discussions about how to deal with them at a funeral...frontal assault in uniform never made it to the table. Burning their compound down while they were at the protest and driving a dozer over their cars at the funeral was quite popular.

Hillwilliam -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/9/2012 7:10:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Burning their compound down while they were at the protest and driving a dozer over their cars at the funeral was quite popular. They could pay for some of their legal bills by selling tickets. Hell, I'd pay to watch that.

Moonhead -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/9/2012 7:33:10 AM)
Would they be allowed to get out of their cars before the bulldozer drives over those?

thompsonx -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/9/2012 4:19:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Burning their compound down while they were at the protest and driving a dozer over their cars at the funeral was quite popular. They could pay for some of their legal bills by selling tickets. Hell, I'd pay to watch that. For that you would have to contact someone who is actually a member. I am neither a member nor a supporter, I was acquainted with one of their officers before his untimely death in a traffic accident.

thompsonx -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/9/2012 4:22:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Would they be allowed to get out of their cars before the bulldozer drives over those? My best guess is that that would be a vehicle occupant option.

GotSteel -> RE: "The Face of Hate": Westboro Baptist (5/9/2012 8:58:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad You seem to be misunderstanding a key issue. From their point of view, their own salvation isn't determined by their actions. Instead, their predetermined actions demonstrate that their salvation has been decided. At the moment of creation, all of the universe's future history was written, in their view. The author decided which characters in the story would attain salvation, and wrote the story so those characters would evidence their predestined salvation through their affiliation with the WBC. They don't decide on their own actions and shape their own role in the world. Instead, their actions just reveal who they are in a story that has already been written. Pretty bleak worldview. This is why I consider faith to be so fucking scary.

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