Veterans speak out (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 6:29:01 AM)

http://news.yahoo.com/weary-warriors-favor-obama-040547455.html

This flies in the face of what Rush and Beck and FOX claim but it does make sense.




Moonhead -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 8:08:15 AM)

It's a bit surprising any servicemen (serving or retired) are still making excuses for the GOP at this point.




Fightdirecto -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 8:54:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It's a bit surprising any servicemen (serving or retired) are still making excuses for the GOP at this point.

Being a military retiree myself, I posted the following on another Internet Forum I frequent, made up primarily of military retirees, military veterans, active military and their significant others:
quote:

One thing I have noticed in this discussion and in others, are the following assumptions (which I believe, from my own experience, are false):

* ASSUMPTION 1: ALL military retirees, especially those who served in the Marines, are politically conservative.

* ASSUMPTION 2: ALL active duty military members, especially those who presently serving in the Marines, are politically conservative.

* ASSUMPTION 3: ANY military retiree and ANY active duty military member, especially those who presently/previously serve/have served in the Marines, who publically identifies themselves as politically liberal is somehow un-American/anti-American/lying about their military service.

* ASSUMPTION 4: If radicals from the extreme Right were to actually attempt an armed coup against the present government of the United States, the members of the active military would not fire on them if ordered and would instead join those attempting the armed coup.

These four assumptions appear to be mainly held by Americans who have not served in the U. S. military and seem to be based on hot air and big talk expressed by some people claiming to be (a) former military, or (b) someone claiming to have a relative, friend or acquaintance who has served in the U. S. military or is presently serving in the U. S. military.

As active duty service members, veterans, military retirees or spouses/family members of active duty service members, veterans or military retirees:
* Do you agree with the four Assumptions above?
* Do you disagree with the four Assumptions above?
* Do you feel uncomfortable or even angry that some of your fellow Americans seem to hold these assumptions to be true?

As for me (27 year Army retiree [6 Active, 21 Reserves]), I find all four assumptions false and find myself angry with those who believe them to be true.

14 posters responded, all of whom are veterans or presently serving on active duty, and all 14 agreed that all four of the assumptions were wrong and false.
Some of the responses:
quote:

As a veteran of two branches of service and three theaters of combat I find all four assumptions to be absurd in the extreme.
quote:

I firmly disagree with those fallacies. I'm a gun-toting liberal and six-year Army vet and Infantryman.
quote:

Sad that ANYBODY thinks people in service won't shoot at them. Maybe 10% won't be convinced you are not an enemy of America.
quote:

Trying to paint "Vet's" as always conservative, is just another example of civilians' complete lack of understanding of "Vet's" and their unique perspectives.
quote:

And when the stuff hits the fan or 'the ballon goes up' service members don't much care about politics. They just do the job, protecting their buddies. [even if their politics are wrong [;)] ]




Moonhead -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 9:01:08 AM)

Interesting responses, Fd. Thanks for that.




SternSkipper -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 1:53:19 PM)

quote:


This flies in the face of what Rush and Beck and FOX claim but it does make sense.


What? REALITY?

Friggin Beck wants a voter initiative to call America "The Father Land"




SternSkipper -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 2:02:46 PM)

quote:

Being a military retiree myself, I posted the following on another Internet Forum I frequent, made up primarily of military retirees, military veterans, active military and their significant others:


And we not only applaud you for your service, but also for you COMMON FUCKING SENSE! Thanks.


[image]local://upfiles/18637/04904085167F48DCBD619E0BBCEA3D35.jpg[/image]




TheHeretic -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 2:31:18 PM)

Boy, now there is some bombshell news, Hillwilliam. The military and veterans aren't some monolithic block? Really?

But please, do go on, and tell us more about what Rush and Beck have to say. You're the one keeping their ratings propped up, after all.




joether -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 4:05:14 PM)

It frosts me to have conservatives used our military assets like toilet paper (case in point: Iraq). But when our soldiers need actual help for things (fight foreclosures, help with mental/emotional/physical problems, education, debt), these same conservates 'hang 'em out to dry' in a heart beat. Just trying to upgrade the VA's with better equipment, good staff and physical structure improvements (or new buildings) got attacked and marginalized by the same conservatives that once spewed '9/11' as their reason for anything. When I hear Mr. Romney bash the President on not being 'gun happy' on Iran or North Korea, I wonder how he would handle being in a firefight of epic proportions...

I for one have no more desire to place our troops in harms way. But if harms way comes to us, I am confident our soldiers, sailors, and airmen will do their utmost to protect this nation from all threats.....Foreign OR Domestic!




Hillwilliam -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 4:27:23 PM)

Had you bothered to look at the post instead of having your normal knee jerk "fuckin liberal, I gotta disagree with him and FAST" reaction you would actually use your brain and think about what I normally say about Beck and Rush and FOX and realize I was poking fun at the self appointed voices of the Republican party.




joether -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 8:22:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Had you bothered to look at the post instead of having your normal knee jerk "fuckin liberal, I gotta disagree with him and FAST" reaction you would actually use your brain and think about what I normally say about Beck and Rush and FOX and realize I was poking fun at the self appointed voices of the Republican party.


Maybe you joke about the suffering of others; but I do not. It doesnt matter if they are US Citizen or Citizen Soldier. Pain and suffering knows no boundries. But those that seem to enjoy seeing it our fellow Americans seems to come more and more from the Republican Party (why, I just dont know). Did I have a 'knee jerk reaction' when I got help for an E5 in the US Army get help for the severe Depression he was suffering at the time? No, that's called experience and knowledge. If left untreated the guy would have killed himself....or worst. Should I have 'minded my own business' and dug a grave for somone I admire and respect?

The 'knee jerk' reaction as you call it, is both annoyance and frustration at an organization composed of millions (if not tens of millions) of fellow Americans that seems to have little empathy, consideration, kindness, patience, or even just plain wisdom on the numerous situations Americans find themselves in these days. Its that lack of understanding and desire to help fix a situation towards a solution rather than creating a bigger problem....just cus they can....that aggitates me.




SternSkipper -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 9:16:28 PM)

quote:

Did I have a 'knee jerk reaction' when I got help for an E5 in the US Army get help for the severe Depression he was suffering at the time? No, that's called experience and knowledge. If left untreated the guy would have killed himself....or worst. Should I have 'minded my own business' and dug a grave for somone I admire and respect?


I think William's response while below yours was to Rich.

But beyond that, having grown up in a household with a father DEEPLY involved in the support of veterans. That was a real decent thing you did Joe and I don't have any trouble believing you saved his life.
I got a guy that's been my buddy since kindergarten and happens to be a Colonel in the Guard, when not a veep at one of the larger insurance companies, look in on a 24 year old kid down the street who finished his hitch in Iraq last summer. He just seemed different and withdrawn. Dan (my friend did a total of 8 years in Iraq and Afghanistan and he got the guy hooked up with some local resources.
It's like none of my business what happened. But the young man is still around and he looks better than he did.
We all gotta be better neighbors in a lot of ways.




Musicmystery -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 9:20:42 PM)

quote:

We all gotta be better neighbors in a lot of ways.


[sm=applause.gif]




TheHeretic -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 10:11:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Had you bothered to look at the post instead of having your normal knee jerk "fuckin liberal, I gotta disagree with him and FAST" reaction you would actually use your brain and think about what I normally say about Beck and Rush and FOX and realize I was poking fun at the self appointed voices of the Republican party.



Oh, I clicked your link to the article, Hill. I was mocking it, and the premise for the article, and your simply awful taste in news sources and commentators. Maybe you've missed it, but there are a few of us in here who took the oath, and wore the uniform, and nobody in their right mind is going to read what we have to say on various matters, and buy in for a moment to the idea that the author of your link, and the editors, who assigned the story and ran it had in mind - that there is even an active myth to be dispelled that veterans form some sort of ideological block.

Nor do I think you are a knee-jerk liberal. Just wrong.




erieangel -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/13/2012 10:22:25 PM)

My son's best friend is a staunch Republican. I don't think he's ever voted for a Democrat since he's registered to vote. That said, my son, the guy's mother, his girl friend, myself and several others have been trying to change his mind about who to vote in Nov. because he says he's already decided.

The problem is that his only news comes from Fox and Stars and Stripes, which, I'm told, is published by Murdock. The guy is former military intelligence, spent 4 years in Afghanistan, got hurt and doesn't have a diagnosis so he only gets 1/2 his disability. He claims it is Obama's policies that has stalled his diagnosis. Everybody else keeps telling him it is the cuts to the VA that doesn't allow them to hire good doctors like they used to. For years, the only hospital my grandfather would go to was the local VA because he said they hired the best doctors in the country. I'm not sure when that stopped being true, but there is definitely a war mentality in this country with no concern for caring for our injured service members--plenty more where they came from, I guess.







AngelOfSilence -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/14/2012 1:45:36 AM)

Does not "it does make sense" automatically mean "flies in the face of what Rush and Beck and FOX claim"?




Moonhead -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/14/2012 3:32:40 AM)

It does for a certain mindset, yet.




truckinslave -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/14/2012 10:38:05 AM)

Well, this part certainly makes sense: Asked about Obama's handling of his job, 27 percent of veterans approved, and 37 percent disapproved, with the rest undecided.

Bearing in mind that the undecideds go heavily to the challenger...




thompsonx -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/14/2012 10:45:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

My son's best friend is a staunch Republican. I don't think he's ever voted for a Democrat since he's registered to vote. That said, my son, the guy's mother, his girl friend, myself and several others have been trying to change his mind about who to vote in Nov. because he says he's already decided.

The problem is that his only news comes from Fox and Stars and Stripes, which, I'm told, is published by Murdock. The guy is former military intelligence, spent 4 years in Afghanistan, got hurt and doesn't have a diagnosis so he only gets 1/2 his disability. He claims it is Obama's policies that has stalled his diagnosis.

The truth is that the president has streemlined the process not stalled it. As a result I know of thousands of vets who have had their claims approved. There are the"vetrans service organizations" whose sole purpose is to empliment the presidents directives to cut the red tape. We may find them listed in the white pages of the phone book. These groups are government funded and there is no cost to the veteran.




quote:

Everybody else keeps telling him it is the cuts to the VA that doesn't allow them to hire good doctors like they used to.


I utilize the va facility in loma linda ca. Their doctors come primarily from the loma linda university medical center which is located across the street.
Perhaps he should actually check to see if the va funding has been cut. He should then try to read a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade which would inform him that congress not the president controls the purse strings.





quote:

For years, the only hospital my grandfather would go to was the local VA because he said they hired the best doctors in the country. I'm not sure when that stopped being true, but there is definitely a war mentality in this country with no concern for caring for our injured service members--plenty more where they came from, I guess.









Owner59 -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/14/2012 10:48:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Had you bothered to look at the post instead of having your normal knee jerk "fuckin liberal, I gotta disagree with him and FAST" reaction you would actually use your brain and think about what I normally say about Beck and Rush and FOX and realize I was poking fun at the self appointed voices of the Republican party.



Oh, I clicked your link to the article, Hill. I was mocking it, and the premise for the article, and your simply awful taste in news sources and commentators. Maybe you've missed it, but there are a few of us in here who took the oath, and wore the uniform, and nobody in their right mind is going to read what we have to say on various matters, and buy in for a moment to the idea that the author of your link, and the editors, who assigned the story and ran it had in mind - that there is even an active myth to be dispelled that veterans form some sort of ideological block.

Nor do I think you are a knee-jerk liberal. Just wrong.



Well.....if one had a better ,more credible source.....they would most certainly share it to counter the proposition put forth.

But in the absence of any....lol....all one has to offer is blather, of one sort or another...lol

Not that there isn`t a place for blather tho.....[;)]




RacerJim -> RE: Veterans speak out (5/14/2012 11:45:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It's a bit surprising any servicemen (serving or retired) are still making excuses for the GOP at this point.

It's damn surprising that any currently serving military officers are still obeying the unlawful orders of their usurper CINC.




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