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defiantbadgirl -> another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 12:13:44 PM)

The real killer repeatedly admitted to being the killer. The real killer was a "phantom". The innocent man can't be let out of prison to live the rest of his life because he's already dead. His unjust punishment can't be reversed. I'm glad I wasn't the judge that sentenced him. I could never live with myself if I was responsible for the death of an innocent. If that makes me a "bleeding heart" I'll gladly own that title. Even one wrongful execution is reason enough for the death penalty to be outlawed.

http://news.yahoo.com/wrong-man-executed-texas-probe-says-051125159.html



DomKen -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 12:56:48 PM)

So that's 2 innocent men executed by Texas. How many more before we put a stop to this madness?



JstAnotherSub -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 12:58:40 PM)

That is horrible, but, this is not 1989. We have ways of being 100% positive who done it, and, if that is the case, they should die.



DomKen -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 1:05:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

That is horrible, but, this is not 1989. We have ways of being 100% positive who done it, and, if that is the case, they should die.

Describe these ways of being 100% certain.

I'm betting you don't have any idea what you're talking about TBH.



SternSkipper -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 1:05:34 PM)

Ah well ... I'll keep checking back, eventually it might come true.



JstAnotherSub -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 1:09:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

That is horrible, but, this is not 1989. We have ways of being 100% positive who done it, and, if that is the case, they should die.

Describe these ways of being 100% certain.

I'm betting you don't have any idea what you're talking about TBH.

DNA, for one.

I personally know of 2 folks who have been murdered where there is no doubt about who took their lives. DNA, witnesses and confession, along with much other evidence gathered from the crime scene.

These 3 killers are still alive because of the wonderful laws decide what kind of murder qualifies as a death penalty case. Amazing to me, cause all the victims are dead the same.

I know this is an emotional issue, and I am not going to change my views on it, nor do I expect you or anyone else to, but please, do not tell me I do not know what I am talking about. I know more than I ever wanted too.



kalikshama -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 1:14:48 PM)

List of exonerated death row inmates

This list contains names of people who were found guilty of capital crimes and placed on death row who were later found to be wrongly convicted. Some people were exonerated posthumously.

...United States

1970-1979

1973
1. David Keaton Florida (Keaton v. State, 273 So.2d 385 (1973)). Convicted 1971.

1974
2. Samuel A. Poole North Carolina (State v. Poole, 203 S.E.2d 786 (N.C. 1974)). Convicted 1973.

1975
3. Wilbert Lee Florida (Pitts v. State 247 So.2d 53 (Fla. 1971), overturned and released by pardon in 1975). Convicted 1963.
4. Freddie Pitts Florida (Pitts v. State 247 So.2d 53 (Fla. 1971), overturned and released by pardon in 1975). Convicted 1965.
5. James Creamer Georgia (Emmett v. Ricketts, 397 F. Supp 1025 (N.D. Ga. 1975)). Convicted 1973.
6. Christopher Spicer North Carolina (State v. Spicer, 204 SE 2d 641 (1974)). Convicted 1973.

1976
7. Thomas Gladish New Mexico. Convicted 1974.
8. Richard Greer New Mexico. Convicted 1974.
9. Ronald Keine New Mexico. Convicted 1974.
10. Clarence Smith New Mexico. Convicted 1974.

1977
11. Delbert Tibbs Florida. Convicted 1974.

1978
12. Earl Charles Georgia. Convicted 1975.
13. Jonathan Treadway Arizona. Convicted 1975.

1979
14. Gary Beeman Ohio. Convicted 1976.
[edit]
1980-1989

1980
15. Jerry Banks.
16. Larry Hicks.

1981
17. Charles Ray Giddens.
18. Michael Linder.
19. Johnny Ross.
20. Ernest (Shuhaa) Graham.

1982
21. Annibal Jaramillo.
22. Lawyer Johnson Massachusetts (Commonwealth v. Johnson, 429 N.E.2d 726 (1982)). Convicted 1971.

1985
23. Larry Fisher.

1986
24. Anthony Brown.
25. Neil Ferber.
26. Clifford Henry Bowen.

1987
27. Joseph Green Brown.
28. Perry Cobb.
29. Darby (Williams) Tillis.
30. Vernon McManus.
31. Anthony Ray Peek.
32. Juan Ramos.
33. Robert Wallace.

1988
34. Richard Neal Jones.
35. Willie Brown.
36. Larry Troy.

1989
37. Randall Dale Adams Texas (Ex Parte Adams, 768 S.W.2d 281) (Tex. Crim App. 1989). Convicted 1977.[3][4]
38. Robert Cox.
39. James Richardson.

On April 8, 2010, former death row inmate Timothy B. Hennis, once exonerated in 1989, was reconvicted of a triple murder, thereby dropping him from the list of those exonerated. [1] Sentenced to death by military court-martial 15 April 2010

1990-1999

1990
40. Clarence Brandley Texas (Ex Parte Brandley, 781 S.W.2d 886 (Tex. Crim App. 1989). Convicted 1981.
41. John C. Skelton.
42. Dale Johnston.
43. Jimmy Lee Mathers.

1991
44. Gary Nelson.
45. Bradley P. Scott.
46. Charles Smith.

1992
47. Jay C. Smith Pennsylvania. Convicted 1986.

1993
48. Kirk Bloodsworth Maryland. Convicted 1984. Exonerated 1993; first prisoner to be exonerated by DNA evidence. Serving life in prison when exonerated, as earlier death sentence was overturned.
49. Federico M. Macias.
50. Walter McMillan.
51. Gregory R. Wilhoit Oklahoma. Convicted 1987. Along with Ron Williamson, Wilhoit later became the subject of John Grisham's 2006 non-fiction book The Innocent Man: Murder and Injustice in a Small Town.[5]
52. James Robison.
53. Muneer Deeb.

1994
54. Andrew Golden.

1995
55. Adolph Munson.
56. Robert Charles Cruz.
57. Rolando Cruz.
58. Alejandro Hernández.
59. Sabrina Butler.

1996
60. Joseph Burrows. Joseph Burrows was released from death row after his attorney Kathleen Zellner persuaded the real killer to confess at the post-conviction hearing.
61. Verneal Jimerson.
62. Dennis Williams.
63. Roberto Miranda.
64. Gary Gauger
65. Troy Lee Jones.
66. Carl Lawson.
67. David Wayne Grannis.

1997
68. Ricardo Aldape Guerra.
69. Benjamin Harris.
70. Robert Hayes.
71. Christopher McCrimmon.
72. Randall Padgett.

It is later revealed, through additional research by Prof. Samuel Gross of the University of Michigan, that though James Bo Cochran was acquitted of murder, he did plead guilty to a robbery charge in an agreement made with prosecutors prior to his release. Therefore, Cochran is no longer on the list of those exonerated from death row. [2]

1998
73. Robert Lee Miller, Jr.
74. Curtis Kyles.

1999
75. Shareef Cousin Louisiana (Louisiana v. Cousin, 710 So. 2d 1065 (1998)). Convicted 1996.
76. Anthony Porter Illinois. Convicted 1983.
77. Steven Smith.
78. Ronald Williamson Oklahoma. Convicted 1988. Along with Gregory R. Wilhoit, Williamson later became the inspiration for and subject of John Grisham's 2006 non-fiction book The Innocent Man: Murder and Injustice in a Small Town.[5]
79. Ronald Jones.
80. Clarence Dexter, Jr.
81. Warren Douglas Manning.
82. Alfred Rivera.

2000-2009

2000
83. Steve Manning.
84. Eric Clemmons.
85. Joseph Nahume Green.
86. Earl Washington Virginia (pardoned). Convicted 1994 (1984, without life sentence).
87. William Nieves.
88. Frank Lee Smith (died prior to exoneration).
89. Michael Graham.
90. Albert Burrell.
91. Oscar Lee Morris.

2001
92. Peter Limone.
93. Gary Drinkard.
94. Joachin José Martínez.
95. Jeremy Sheets.
96. Charles Fain.

2002
97. Juan Roberto Melendez-Colon Florida. Convicted 1984.
98. Ray Krone Arizona (State v. Krone, 897 P.2d 621 (Ariz. 1995) (en banc)). Convicted 1992.
99. Thomas Kimbell, Jr.
100. Larry Osborne.

2003
101. Aaron Patterson.
102. Madison Hobley.
103. Leroy Orange.
104. Stanley Howard.
105. Rudolph Holton.
106. Lemuel Prion.
107. Wesley Quick.
108. John Thompson.
109. Timothy Howard Ohio. Convicted 1976.
110. Gary Lamar James Ohio. Convicted 1976.
111. Joseph Amrine.
112. Nicholas Yarris Pennsylvania (Pennsylvania v. Yarris, No 690-OF1982, Court of Common Pleas, Delaware County, September 3, 2003. Order vacating conviction). Convicted 1982.

2004
113. Alan Gell.
114. Gordon Steidl.
115. Laurence Adams.
116. Dan L. Bright.
117. Ryan Matthews.
118. Ernest Ray Willis.

2005
119. Derrick Jamison.
120. Harold Wilson.

2006
121. John Ballard.

2007
122. Curtis McCarty.
123. Michael McCormick.
124. Jonathon Hoffman.

2008
125. Kennedy Brewer Mississippi. Convicted 1995.
126. Glen Edward Chapman North Carolina. Convicted 1995.
127. Levon "Bo" Jones[6] North Carolina. Convicted 1993.
128. Michael Blair Texas.

2009
129. Nathson Fields Illinois. Convicted 1986.
130. Paul House Tennessee. Convicted 1986.
131. Daniel Wade Moore Alabama. Convicted 2002.
132. Ronald Kitchen Illinois. Convicted 1988.
133. Herman Lindsey Florida. Convicted 2006.
134. Michael Toney Texas. Convicted 1999. (Toney later died in a car accident on October 3, 2009, just one month and a day after his exoneration.).[7]
135. Yancy Douglas Oklahoma. Convicted 1997.
136. Paris Powell Oklahoma. Convicted 1997.
137. Robert Springsteen Texas. Convicted 2001.

2010-2019

2010
138. Joe D'Ambrosio Ohio. Convicted 1989. (While he was freed in 2010, but not yet exonerated, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear an appeal by the state of Ohio challenging the unconditional writ of habeas corpus and bar to D'Ambrosio's re-prosecution on January 23, 2012, nearly 2 years later, making D'Ambrosio the 140th death row exoneree since 1973. [3])
139. Anthony Graves Texas. Convicted 1994.

2011
140. Gussie Vann Tennessee. Convicted 1994.



DomKen -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 1:26:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

That is horrible, but, this is not 1989. We have ways of being 100% positive who done it, and, if that is the case, they should die.

Describe these ways of being 100% certain.

I'm betting you don't have any idea what you're talking about TBH.

DNA, for one.

I personally know of 2 folks who have been murdered where there is no doubt about who took their lives. DNA, witnesses and confession, along with much other evidence gathered from the crime scene.

DNA can never provide 100% certain evidence of guilt. A DNA test can 100% exclude the tested person or include the person in the group that the sample came from, that group is usually quite large because crime scene samples are quite degraded and the test used, PCR, amplifies very small amounts of DNA but does not recreate the missing portions resulting in very few loci for comparison and therefore very large groups of included people.

Eyewitness testimony is essentially worthless. The case above included a supposed eyewitness identification which was flawed.

Confession's sound great until you investigate Jon Burge.

So your beliefs are simply wrong. I strongly suggest you stop getting your science information from CSI.



JstAnotherSub -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 1:32:13 PM)

This will be the last post I make on this thread.

I again tell you that I know 100% that the 3 killers I am speaking of are guilty. This did not come from CSI, it came from hours spent with the Cobb Co Asst DA, detectives and victim advocates. It came from sitting through the trials of the people who murdered 2 different folks that I knew and loved.

You believe what you want to. What you think I know or do not know means absolutely nothing to me.



DomKen -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 1:35:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

This will be the last post I make on this thread.

I again tell you that I know 100% that the 3 killers I am speaking of are guilty. This did not come from CSI, it came from hours spent with the Cobb Co Asst DA, detectives and victim advocates. It came from sitting through the trials of the people who murdered 2 different folks that I knew and loved.

You believe what you want to. What you think I know or do not know means absolutely nothing to me.

You claimed DNA, eyewitness and confession could let you know with 100% certainty the guilt of someone. I debunked that and now you simply assert that you know because people whose job it is to get convictions told you so.

I suggest you read the long and complicated story of Jeanine Nicarico and then re-examine your beliefs.



Fightdirecto -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 1:47:09 PM)

So the judge, the prosecutor and the jury effectively committed 1st degree murder, i.e. premeditated murder.

Where are they now - and why haven't they been arrested for the premeditated murder of Carlos DeLuna?



subrob1967 -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 2:04:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

So the judge, the prosecutor and the jury effectively committed 1st degree murder, i.e. premeditated murder.

Where are they now - and why haven't they been arrested for the premeditated murder of Carlos DeLuna?


Because only the Judge passes sentence. The Prosecutor can ask for the DP, the jury can find the defendant guilty, but it comes down to the Judge to pass sentence, that, and the fact the defendant had due process... That's why none of them are arrested, or prosecuted for murder... Ain't that Constitution grand?



Mupainurpleasure -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 2:13:47 PM)

TX will change when the people irt murders arent brown



lovmuffin -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 2:46:04 PM)

From the article it would seem there was prosecutor misconduct and shoddy police work. We all saw that same sort of thing with Mike Nifong and those Lacrosse players. In the Nifong case it was big news and the defendants had big bucks for good lawyers. How often does this sort of misconduct occur I wonder ? How often are innocent people like on that long list above convicted because of misconduct and how often because happenstance pointed all the evidence in their direction. I do have a problem with asshole prosecutors and police who will do anything to pin it on someone regardless of evidence that may exonerate just to stick a feather in their hat.



Fightdirecto -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 5:56:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

From the article it would seem there was prosecutor misconduct and shoddy police work. We all saw that same sort of thing with Mike Nifong and those Lacrosse players. In the Nifong case it was big news and the defendants had big bucks for good lawyers. How often does this sort of misconduct occur I wonder ? How often are innocent people like on that long list above convicted because of misconduct and how often because happenstance pointed all the evidence in their direction. I do have a problem with asshole prosecutors and police who will do anything to pin it on someone regardless of evidence that may exonerate just to stick a feather in their hat.


I have always thought that the penalty for prosecutorial misconduct would be for the prosecuting attorney to serve the same amount of time in prison that the defendant would have receive if given the maximum sentence. In case of a trial where the prosecutor is demanding the death penalty, and prosecutorial misconduct is proven, the prosecuting attorney should be put to death.

Similar punishments should be given to police officers who commit perjury in order to get a conviction and police lab technicians found to have falsified lab test results in order to get a conviction.

The Houston Crime Lab Scandal of 2007

quote:

A 2007 report issued by former Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Bromwich revealed that analysts working in Houston's DNA lab were undertrained and created false reports for tests that were never performed, a practice known as "drylabbing." When the analysts did run tests, they had a tendency to tailor their reports to fit police theories and disregarded evidence that may have been favorable to criminal suspects. They also had a habit of using all of the available evidence for their own testing, leaving no samples for the defense to run independent tests to verify the lab's results.


NYPD Lab Tech Allegedly "Faked" Drug-Test Results

quote:

An NYPD forensics tech allegedly falsified drug-test results, potentially jeopardizing thousands of criminal cases, according to a published report.

Authorities suspended Mariem Megalla, a 24-year employee in the police department's forensics lab, for allegedly faking evidence to save time and effort, reports The New York Post...

In one case, Megalla allegedly posted a positive cocaine label on the last of 39 samples tested because that final bag showed up negative for the drug while the first 38 tested positive and she didn't want to have to test all the samples over again, reports the Post.

In another case, she's accused of slapping a positive cocaine tag on a sample that tested negative to avoid trekking to another side of the building to fill out paperwork, according to the Post.


"Most of the officers at the 30th Precinct during that time were lying about arrests they were making. That's just the way things were done."

quote:

Prosecutors have been forced to throw out 125 cases against 98 defendants because their convictions were based on untruthful testimony by officers from the Harlem station house...

In addition to conducting illegal raids and stealing and dealing drugs, a dozen officers later acknowledged that they routinely lied under oath. Most admitted committing perjury fewer than a dozen times, but one sergeant admitted to lying on the witness stand in 75 trials and court hearings, according to court papers.

Officer George Nova, who admitted to repeated acts of perjury, said lying under oath was standard procedure. Some officers lied to protect their own drug businesses, while others committed perjury to counterbalance the loopholes used by drug dealers to evade the police, Mr. Nova said.



TheHeretic -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 6:24:15 PM)

If true, then what an awful tragedy, and miscarriage of justice. Even if it is accurate though, it won't change my thoughts on the death penalty - some crimes demand it.




Fightdirecto -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 6:45:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

If true, then what an awful tragedy, and miscarriage of justice. Even if it is accurate though, it won't change my thoughts on the death penalty - some crimes demand it.

It is often said that we need the death penalty as a deterrent - imagine how much of a deterrent it would be if they tracked down the prosecutor from the Deluna case, tried him for prosecutorial misconduct and, if he is convicted, executed him by lethal injection as Carlos Deluna was executed - his execution would be a deterrent all right - a deterrent to future prosecutors, police officers and police lab technicians who routinely commit prosecutorial misconduct and/or commit perjury.



SternSkipper -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 6:51:10 PM)

quote:

Where are they now - and why haven't they been arrested for the premeditated murder of Carlos DeLuna?


All parties in a criminal (or civil for that matter) enjoy sovereign immunity.
The exception being the attorneys if either criminal wrong-doing or negligence can be proven.

The State however can be found responsible for wrongful death or imprisonment.



subrob1967 -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 6:59:44 PM)

And imagine how much of a deterrent it would be if a convicted felon was put to death within two years of sentencing, as opposed to 14 years. After all, the constitution does guarantee a speedy trial, there's no reason the sentencing can't be carried out just as fast.



TheHeretic -> RE: another wrongful execution (5/15/2012 7:02:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

It is often said that ...




I don't much give a shit what is often said, or what some will claim is often said. I say that we have a death penalty, and should have a death penalty, because some crimes demand it.



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