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20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/20/2012 8:40:12 PM   
IrishMist


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Status: offline 		I watched an episode tonight on 60 minutes about Peter Thiel and The ThielFellowship program that he funds

http://www.thielfellowship.org/

Long story short, Mr Thiel is of the belief that almost everyone ( I said almost, not all ) should drop out of college because, according to him, a college degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. The Fellowship that he heads offers a select group $100,000 if they drop out of college to start their own business. They receive the fellowship after giving a presentation on what their business would be.

While at first, outraged at the thinking that most should drop out of college and use the money for something else; I also can understand his thinking on this.

I was just curious if anyone else had caught the episode or knew about the controversial fellowship lol...and what your thoughts were/are about it.

Here are a couple more links about Thiel, if you want to read something other than just the fellowship page
http://thielfoundation.org/index.php?option=com_content&id=5&Itemid=10
http://www.good.is/post/if-paypal-billionaire-peter-thiel-thinks-students-should-drop-out-of-school-why-is-he-teaching-at-stanford?utm_content=prev-next&utm_medium=post-page-top

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 5/20/2012 8:44:10 PM >

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/20/2012 9:23:51 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Of course a college degree isn't worth anything. Nor is anyone's GPA.

What *IS* worth something are (1) the skills acquired and (2) the ability to apply them.
The distinctions are important--many people manipulate their way to graduation with minimal skills.
And many people work diligently to acquire skills, but have no idea how to implement those skills in practical situations.

There's also a third point, that the value of a college degree is not all pecuniary, a point Mr. Thiel doesn't entertain.

That said, is a college degree the ONLY way to these objectives? Of course not. It's a starting point.

Personally, I'd do the presentation, win the fellowship, start the business, and then finish my degree concurrently.

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/20/2012 10:02:06 PM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		one thing a good university can do is be a source for contacts.. but imo it has to be a pretty highfalutin university... like Harvard or some such..

but other than that.. ya wanna learn what a college or university kid is being taught?.. just find out what books they are using for the particular courses that interest you.. buy the books used and read thru them..

To me the degree or whatever piece of paper you get from going to college/university isnt worth the multi-tens of thousands it costs.. jmo



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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 1:07:56 AM   
kitkat105


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Status: offline 		There are many professions that you can only obtain through a university degree. Like tj444 said, some universities carry such prestige or a particular reputations that merely having a degree in whatever from them will help you throughout your career.

There are certainly some professions that should go to university. I wouldn't want to go see a self-taught doctor, the ones with the degrees can be dangerous enough.

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 4:46:27 AM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		LOL, kitkat.. yes, becoming a doctor or various other jobs do require getting the right degree and understudy first.. but lets say you liked decorating.. you can learn what Interior Designers learn without getting the degree, you just cant call your self an Interior Designer but you could still work in the design industry in various capacities, either for a store/business or in your own business.. it just depends on what the regulations are for that job/industry in your state..

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 5:14:53 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

one thing a good university can do is be a source for contacts.. but imo it has to be a pretty highfalutin university... like Harvard or some such..

but other than that.. ya wanna learn what a college or university kid is being taught?.. just find out what books they are using for the particular courses that interest you.. buy the books used and read thru them..

To me the degree or whatever piece of paper you get from going to college/university isnt worth the multi-tens of thousands it costs.. jmo



You'd be amazed how many contacts you can make at a community college if you think about it. You don't have to go to Hahvaaah to make contacts for lucrative employment.

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 7:11:15 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

Personally, I'd do the presentation, win the fellowship, start the business, and then finish my degree concurrently

Watching the show that they did, a few of the fellowship students that they interviewed actually entertained this very same thought. Take the money, start their business, and then go back to school.

I am big on education, but at the same time, my main concern is that education be pratical. Looking through many of the college classes that are required for any course; most of the classes are not pratical, they will never be used by the person after they finish college.

From what I understood from the interview, is that he does not agree with the overcharging of classes in university for something that a person will never use once they go out and begin their career. A good example is American Literature. My youngest starts college this fall, she plans to go for graphic illustration with a secondary in photography; yet, one of the requirements to take the classes necessary were American Literature. The class itself is costing almost $1800; yet, there is no pratical reason for her to take this class. Yet, the college deems it necessary.

quote:

There are many professions that you can only obtain through a university degree. Like tj444 said, some universities carry such prestige or a particular reputations that merely having a degree in whatever from them will help you throughout your career.

There are certainly some professions that should go to university. I wouldn't want to go see a self-taught doctor, the ones with the degrees can be dangerous enough

If you had seen the interview or the other articles that he has written on this subject, you would find that he agrees with you. He does not state that ALL degrees are useless; nor does he state that ALL learning is useless. He focuses on the fact that a person is going into debt to get a degree; when that same person could instead be in the workforce receiving the same set of education for free.
quote:

You'd be amazed how many contacts you can make at a community college if you think about it. You don't have to go to Hahvaaah to make contacts for lucrative employment.

What's more, you don't have to go to college at all, to make the same set of contacts. I know a young lady who graduated last year. She started working at the newspaper in Fort Wayne when she was 16, as part of an outreach program with the school. When she graduated, she was offered full time employment, without a college degree. She took them up on their offer. Her contact list includes high finance bankers, state and federal politicians, a few movie stars, musicians...however, I do agree that college can be a wonderful place for cementing friendships in the future.

On one hand, I agree with what Mr Thiel is saying; but on the other, I have been brainwashed into believing that without a college degree, a person will get no where in life, despite having seen evidence to the contrary.

I was just wondering how others looked at it and what their thoughts were.

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 7:29:17 AM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		I have to say I agree with him even though here I am finishing up my degree. The only reason I am doing so though is because it looks good on a resume. I already have over 20 years experience in the degree I am finishing. But ya know, when it comes to searching for a job, they're gonna pass over me and hire the kid right out of college because he simply has a piece of paper and zero experience.


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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 9:26:49 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You'd be amazed how many contacts you can make at a community college if you think about it. You don't have to go to Hahvaaah to make contacts for lucrative employment.

well,.. i did take 1 year of college but then realized doing that wasnt right for me..

The difference between the contacts from a community college versus the contacts from Harvard is with your community college your contacts might help you find a job.. with Harvard, you are looking for contacts on a totally different level and playing field, you likely are looking for connected people that can help you secure funding for your business, contacts for sales contracts, investors, business partners.. Imo, its like night and day.. JMO..

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 9:53:36 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

The difference between the contacts from a community college versus the contacts from Harvard is with your community college your contacts might help you find a job.. with Harvard, you are looking for contacts on a totally different level and playing field, you likely are looking for connected people that can help you secure funding for your business, contacts for sales contracts, investors, business partners.. Imo, its like night and day.. JMO..

This, I agree with. You are not going to make the same kind of contacts at a community college that you would at Harvard, Yale, Stanford etc.

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 9:57:49 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I have to say I agree with him even though here I am finishing up my degree. The only reason I am doing so though is because it looks good on a resume. I already have over 20 years experience in the degree I am finishing. But ya know, when it comes to searching for a job, they're gonna pass over me and hire the kid right out of college because he simply has a piece of paper and zero experience.


My daughter spent this past year working with an illustration company part time. They offered her continuing employment through college with an offer of full time at graduation. What's off about this is that, I was with her when they offered her the job and the guy in charge admitted that there is nothing she can learn in college that she already does not know, or can not learn through pratical application of real time experience...yet, their hands are tied. They can not offer her full time employment unless she has a 4 year degree from college.

Makes no fucking sense.

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 10:01:36 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		Too many people, not enough jobs, too many greedy employers.

I have several college degrees, only one of which was oriented toward really working at a profession. I got a lot out of my education, I am grateful for the opportunity, but I don't think it's essential for many jobs.

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 10:11:11 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Too many people, not enough jobs, too many greedy employers.

I have several college degrees, only one of which was oriented toward really working at a profession. I got a lot out of my education, I am grateful for the opportunity, but I don't think it's essential for many jobs.

I never went to college; I kind of 'fell' into the career that I am in now, and that's because of my past experience with gangs. If I had the desire to go to college, I can admit that I would not take classes geared towards what I am doing now...I would probably take classes simply because I have an interest in them. Yet, at the same time, I can not see overpaying a college to take a class that I can learn about just by going to the local library and taking out some books.

That's where my main rant is at. The amount of money they charge for something that a person can get on the streets (so to speak).

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 11:34:49 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Not having a degree was my mom's glass ceiling. "They're a college graduate" is family code for "can't find his ass with both hands" (yes, the irony of my education does not escape us!)

I last graduated in the early 90's, and paid my way through both grad degrees as I went. I never got any student loans. Now, I don't know how anyone can afford to go to school without one! The cost is terrifying, and trade schools are even worse. But the point of college is keeping people out of the job pool that much longer.

There might be some educational value in it... I recall having a grand time studying all manner of things. Ah, nostalgia!

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 1:17:59 PM   
fluffypet67


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Status: offline 		All the jobs i had over 30+ years required a college degree.  It was one way that they trimed down the candidate field.  But it was also an indicator of follow through, sticktoitiveness, and goal setting.  Having a balanced college education made for more interesting people to work with.  It worked for me. 

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RE: 20 Under 20: The Thiel Fellowship - 5/21/2012 7:32:25 PM   
slaveluci


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Status: offline 		Agreed, fluffypet. I have a bachelor's and an associate's and am currently working on a master's. Even though it may be expensive and time consuming, it's what employers usually want to see. And it's not just due to the specific knowledge you gain it is, as you say, an indicator that you can commit to a goal and work hard to achieve it, jumping through the necessary hoops. You may not like it, but it's life and, these days, those without some type of degree usually can't hope to even be selected for an interview, let alone hired in many fields. Of course, there are always exceptions like how gaining street knowledge can get you into law enforcement or something but, on the whole, I think employers want to see that you can be dedicated and serious about a long term goal such as gaining a degree. I personally know there are other ways but, if that's what they want, it's what ya gotta have to get the job....luci

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