RE: Promoting Tolerance (Full Version)

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RaspberryLemon -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 12:05:34 AM)

Both JeffBC's and IrishMist's posts resonate with me.

For me, it's not really about promoting tolerance--it's just about being me and not letting anyone quash that.

I don't advertise my dynamic, I don't tell people about it without prompting, and I don't shove it down people's throats. But I also don't hide anything about it, because I have nothing to hide and no reason to hide it. I wear my collar all day, everyday, everywhere. It's 1.25" thick and leather with a round tag hanging in front--definitely noticeable. Do I care? No. I'm not going to take it off just so I don't look "different" in some way.

I don't change who I am or how I interact with my partner just because I'm in front of certain company that may feel negatively about it. I just be me, and if people (whether they be friends, family, or strangers) ask questions, they get straight and honest answers. They don't have to like the answers or react tolerantly towards them or who I am or what I do--how they react is up to them--but I also don't have to suppress aspects of myself to cater to what the general public wants to see.

I've gotten weird looks, I've gotten questions, and I've gotten comments and such in public because of the collar I wear. Some of this feedback was incredibly negative, intolerant, and sometimes downright rude. I don't expect everyone to like what they see. What I do expect is to be able to express my right to be that regardless.



kalikshama -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 5:48:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

I have seen threads on the Boards lately about people being open re: one's involvement in BDSM in an effort to promote tolerance in general society for it. In your opinion, just how open or private should an individual be while still promoting tolerance for BDSM in general?


I would be highly doubtful of anyone who claims they engage in BDSM so they can promote tolerance for it in general society. Even to make such a statement is very self-serving and just flat out unbelievable. I mean, seriously.. 'I get my ass beat for the greater good of mankind and to promote tolerance and understanding'. It reads silly because it is silly.


Not that's not what NBMG or the person on the thread that inspired this one is saying.

See http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4129652 and reread "being open re: one's involvement in BDSM in an effort to promote tolerance in general society for it."

The question is about being open to promote tolerance not engaging to promote tolerance.



kalikshama -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 5:56:08 AM)

quote:

While I'm all for promoting tolerance and advocating a greater degree of social cohesion and acceptance between people I feel that kinksters are nowhere near the top of the list.

How about starting with people such as the disabled? The mentally ill? People who are poor or who are on welfare? You know? People who are often stigmatized and who often have to deal with prejudice and denial of opportunities that the rest of us take for granted?


Agreed. Racial tolerance is where I spend my time.



kalikshama -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 6:14:48 AM)

When people who know I'm kinky ask questions I answer them with a level of detail appropriate to our relationship.

I've outted myself in various ways:

1. By sending the link to the collarme profile of a Dom I was seeing to girlfriends.

gf: "What's collarme?"

me: "A dating site for kinky people."

gf: "[more questions];" me "[more answers]"

2. By giving the ad guys at work a list of adult and alternative sites that might take our ads. I buried CM in the list but they zeroed in on that and not surprisingly given my work persona, assumed I was a Domme. [:D]

3. Years ago, I gave my family a brief explanation when I was in a relationship that seemed a bit odd to them. A few months ago when I went away for the weekend to NELA's Fetish Flea, I merely said it was an event for leather (to Mom) / kinky (to my brother) people and they didn't ask followup questions.

My mother's social worker education has trained her to asks tons of questions about families of origin so when I was dating and living with her I let him know that I will be interrogated. Potentials have submitted gracefully to my subsequent interrogation.

I don't tell Mom I only date kinky men and always tell her I meet them on OKCupid, which has been true for several men.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 6:44:46 AM)

Excellent topic, NBMG, though I agree with Lady P, the initial question could have been worded with more clarity.

For instance, I know many who are extremely open about being gay, and yet that openness does not create tolerance in the homophobe. Quite the opposite from my view. People exist who are so intolerant to any race, religion, and life style choices other than their own that *nothing* a person can do will promote tolerance or even grudging acceptance of the others' right to exist.

Though people (here in the US) purport to be tolerant, prejudice and discrimination are so very well entrenched, most do not even realize they are prejudiced. It's that "black people, or Jews, or Muslims, or gays are fine, as long as I don't have to deal with them."

As a society, we have a very long way to go before alternative sexual lifestyles are going to be generally accepted. Great Britain and Europe are way ahead of us on these issues. We are a nation founded (in part) by Puritans that is, guess what? Puritanical.

I seriously doubt anyone being open about their lifestyle choices is going to change that in the least. Far better to adopt a tolerant approach yourself, not just to BDSMers but to all groups who are discriminated against: The disabled, the elderly, the poor, the less educated, take your pick.

In my lifetime, I have seen racial intolerance change from something that was commonly accepted, to something that is only accepted in certain insular communities. Why is that? In my mind, it has little to do with the civil rights laws and everything to do with the fact that community standards changed to become more tolerant.

How one goes about effecting that sort of change is an interesting sociological question. The short answer is that you make it socially acceptable to be tolerant, and socially unacceptable to be intolerant.

Since our society is still stumbling through the necessary changes to become more tolerant towards homosexuals, I (again) feel we have a long way to go before we achieve tolerance for alternative lifestyle choices.



ProlificNeeds -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 7:01:06 AM)

FR~

As for promoting tolerance, I do and I don't. That is to say I promote it by being tolerant, but I don't expose my personal life to others to do so.
A better example is, I work in a book store, when people ask about 50 shades of grey I try to promote the subject matter in a way that makes it seem like just a different sort of erotica, not some scandelous piece of garbage.
I do the same in the rest of life, if the topic of BDSM or scandalous kink ever comes up I just inject common sense with a 'to each their own' attitude, and it usually gives others a better perspective, or at least food for thought.



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 10:07:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

I have seen threads on the Boards lately about people being open re: one's involvement in BDSM in an effort to promote tolerance in general society for it. In your opinion, just how open or private should an individual be while still promoting tolerance for BDSM in general?


I would be highly doubtful of anyone who claims they engage in BDSM so they can promote tolerance for it in general society. Even to make such a statement is very self-serving and just flat out unbelievable. I mean, seriously.. 'I get my ass beat for the greater good of mankind and to promote tolerance and understanding'. It reads silly because it is silly.


Not that's not what NBMG or the person on the thread that inspired this one is saying.

See http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4129652 and reread "being open re: one's involvement in BDSM in an effort to promote tolerance in general society for it."

The question is about being open to promote tolerance not engaging to promote tolerance.

The thread Kalikshama referenced here is exactly the thread and post I was referencing and why I started this thread. For myself, I don't push BDSM on anyone at all. As a matter of fact, I'm very quiet about it actually.

IF I hear someone making judgmental statements re: it, THEN I will try to explain it a bit to them from the D/s angle and not the kinky sex angle. Too many people already think we're all sexual deviants, I don't want to perpetuate that idea. Also, I don't refer to my own life when I try to enlighten them. I have no desire to "out myself" in the process.

NBMG



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 11:17:35 AM)

I'm both Open and Reserved about it. Includes the dynamic and the kinky off the wall aspects. It's all rather situational for me. I have been extremely open with some people, and keep a tight lid on it around others. My level of Openess varies.

There are times when it becomes challenging though. Found myself in a tripped up situation last year, with somebody who was very interested in me. We hooked up for the night. About 15 minutes into things, my tounge betrayed me for the truely Kinky Bastard I am. Needless to say, it did not sit well with her. So, I was faced with her angry words directed at me. Being called a Dirty Pervert and etc. I remained extremely calm, letting her vent for a bit. Then asked the simple question. "This makes me a bad person exactly how?". She paused and began to actually think. "Yes, I'm a kinky depraved pervert, sorry for the suprise and it shocked you, but how does this make me a bad person?" <--- I keep reasseting these type of questions. She calmed down more and more, till we reached a point where our conversation was on civil ground.

At the last minute, when we were parting our ways for the night. She asked if she could see me again, apologized for flipping out on me and asked if it was okay if she hugged me goodbye. She was saying "I don't blame you, if you don't want to ever see me again" (which, in all honesty was exactly what I was thinking). //End of Story//

I really don't feel ashamed about being kinky, it does not make me either a bad or good person. I never once demanded that she should be more open minded or tolerent. I just calmly held my ground, like a Star Trek vulcan. To neither be a doormat nor play the retaliation game. Hell yeah, if somebody calls me a Dirty Depraved Pervert... I'm happy to admit the truth. However, I'll remind them that I'm a human being and there is way more to me beside just being that. If they can't see that nor comprehend it. It's their problem.




BitaTruble -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/29/2012 11:54:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

The thread Kalikshama referenced here is exactly the thread and post I was referencing and why I started this thread. For myself, I don't push BDSM on anyone at all. As a matter of fact, I'm very quiet about it actually.

IF I hear someone making judgmental statements re: it, THEN I will try to explain it a bit to them from the D/s angle and not the kinky sex angle. Too many people already think we're all sexual deviants, I don't want to perpetuate that idea. Also, I don't refer to my own life when I try to enlighten them. I have no desire to "out myself" in the process.

NBMG


I skipped over that thread when I saw the title. lol It does clarify things.

Already being involved and then deciding to out yourself for a cause.. I have no problem with that and if I was feeling martyrish.. I might do it, too.. or, if I wanted some attention I might do that or if I wanted to go shock and awe on someone's ass.. might do it then, too. Being out is a personal decision and I did make that decision for myself a couple of decades ago. I did it for a different reason but in the end, whatever reason someone else may have is good enough for them.. so, yanno, it's good enough for me. Out yourself away, I say! If it does some good.. that's a win and I don't see how someone personally outting themselves is bad for kink although it may be very bad personally in their own inner circle. Know the risk, weigh the reward and do whats the most beneficial.. and that's pretty much all any of us can do.



TxSeekers -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/30/2012 4:24:24 PM)

This will be my only post on this, but since it is in reference to my posting on another thread, I will explain.

I do not shove it down anyone's throat.

I do not hide it. When asked why I was buying a Harley Davidson dog collar at work when I didn't have a dog I stated it was for my girl. And so was the matching leash.

I speak up when people bring up the subject of bdsm and give them answers to their questions.

I do not tell every one of my customers about the lifestyle though. It is common knowledge at my work though, especially since I helped run a dungeon before professionally.

Do I perhaps talk about it too much at times? Yes, generally when a comment is made that my involvement in the lifestyle means I go home every night and beat the shit out of my girl. I try to explain that there are many facets to the lifestyle. When someone finds some stupid crap online I try and explain what makes it or doesn't make it the lifestyle.

I had a Manager at the last place I work sneak into my apartment complex and put a sticker on my car that said "Don't worry it is only kinky the first time"

Granted I work with bikers so the tolerance is a bit higher than an office job would be, But I am always astounded at the lack of real information that most have on the lifestyle. And I have run across others in the lifestyle at work that privately stated their desire to keep their lifestyle choice private. I have no issue with that.

I am not trying to self promote. But I don't like doing nothing while ignorance flourishes and I don't like seeing the lifestyle get a bad name if I have the ability to do something about it such as give people Real information.

Honestly I don't think there should be a difference between saying you are Straight, Gay, Bi, Black, White, or Kinky.

And I make it a point to let those interested know that it is All About being Safe Sane and Consensual. No ifs and or buts.

I point out those positive aspects of the lifestyle as well.

Actually some years back there was an article in Penthouse about the proliferation of BDSM at Colleges. They even went so far as to interview parents to get their opinion on the matter. You know what happened?
When shown the Facts of the lifestyle they said they preferred their kids be involved with the lifestyle rather than attending the usual frat parties and such because they Knew that their kids would be supervised and that no alcohol or drugs were being used, that protection was enforced and anyone getting out of line was tossed out. They felt safer having their kids involved in BDSM than they would if their kids were partying like rock stars.

So Yes. I don't hide it. I have a mini whip on my key chain. I used to have a flogger hanging from my mirror in my car but it kept pulling the mirror off. To me it is no different from having a rainbow sticker or a fish or a cross on your car.

I don't think you should have to hide if you don't want to. People should be able to look Beyond the lifestyle choice (gay, bi, kinky) and see you for the person you truly are and accept you for that.

I don't knock on doors preaching and I don't berate people for not being part of it, unlike one co-worker who keeps telling me I am going to hell every day cause I won't go to his church.

This is my one and Only post on this matter. If you feel the need to respond to me then feel free to email me. I will only respond to posts made about my statement in emails. I will not contribute to arguments or flaming on these boards or bashing of peoples ideals.

If you feel the need to post an email I have sent you to the board then ask and I will most likely give permission provided it is the Complete email and unedited.



RemoteUser -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/30/2012 4:35:05 PM)

For a smallish city, the community where I live has a good number per capita of kinksters, as fetlife has graciously demonstrated through the provision of base statistics which can then be applied to government demographics. The few comments ever seen around town, scratched on telephone poles or drawn in dust, say things like "BDSM for Life". No one seems to mind, if they even notice.

Given that, tolerance is a non-issue for where I hang my hat. I've even made quips before that people laugh at but say nothing in reply to. If there are ever antithetical comments made my way, I'll address them. Hasn't happened yet, though; I get judged more for my roleplaying computer-programming geekiness.




Bhruic -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/31/2012 3:48:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

While I appreciate the spirit of the OP, (and I'm very glad the subject was brought up) I have to question the wording a bit.  I don't know if it's necessarily promoting tolerance just because a person is open or not.  It may be educating folks who aren't familiar with certain things, but it's still up to the receiver of such information to choose if they are tolerant of other behaviors or not.

[snip]



In that sense, she may have meant promoting tolerance by challenging it. If people never encounter someone who is in to BDSM, they are never challenged to assess their tolerance of BDSM... so - sort of obliquely - it could be deemed that being open is a way of promoting tolerance.

In my own life... in my work world it is not appropriate for anyone, really, to discuss their sex life, so I am discrete. Otherwise I am open about my sexuality when the topic comes up.



LadyPact -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (5/31/2012 3:59:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
In that sense, she may have meant promoting tolerance by challenging it. If people never encounter someone who is in to BDSM, they are never challenged to assess their tolerance of BDSM... so - sort of obliquely - it could be deemed that being open is a way of promoting tolerance.

In my own life... in my work world it is not appropriate for anyone, really, to discuss their sex life, so I am discrete. Otherwise I am open about my sexuality when the topic comes up.


A person would have to live under a rock these days to have no exposure to BDSM.  No movies, no music, no articles in the press.

Just saying.




Kana -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (6/1/2012 7:41:15 AM)

quote:

just how open or private should an individual be while still promoting tolerance for BDSM in general?


They should be as private as they care to be...and remain within the legal limits.

As for promoting BDSM tolerance-I don't care a lick about that so it's not even on my radar. I don't care if people tolerate it or not (It's not like I need their approval or care for it), what others feel about things ain't my business, and frankly, pretty much no matter what, no matter how many kinky videos Rhianna puts out, no matter how "mainstream" BDSM may get, I don't ever see a situation where the public will approve beating the shit out of your woman, sticking skewers in the slut, trying to tear her nipples and clit off with a pair of pliers, making her drink piss and cum, crawl like a dog, penetrate her with insane objects and putting your cigarette out on her as an acceptable part of someones regular sex life...and really, frankly, I ain't sure I wanna live in a world where such actions are condoned :-)

People gonna judge-it's who and what we are as a species...but they can only judge on what I put out there. Thus discretion is relatively important to me.

To you? I dunno, that's your call



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (6/1/2012 8:51:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
People gonna judge-it's who and what we are as a species...but they can only judge on what I put out there. Thus discretion is relatively important to me.

Which is why I don't put much out there to vanillas, except with a very select few who already know and love me.

NBMG



subbyinlosangele -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (6/1/2012 9:02:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

I have seen threads on the Boards lately about people being open re: one's involvement in BDSM in an effort to promote tolerance in general society for it. In your opinion, just how open or private should an individual be while still promoting tolerance for BDSM in general?

Personally, I feel it's no one's business what I do in my private life and I don't need to tell anyone what I, specifically, do in my own life to promote such tolerance. However, I do promote tolerance everyday with my actions towards people who are different than me and what I tolerate from others.

So, Ladies and Gentlemen, bring it on. Let's hear your opinions. [:)]

NBMG



Personally, I am apathetic whether society is tolerant to BDSM. In terms of important societal issues, I can think of a 7,603 things off the top of my head that I'd rather put my time, energy, and passion to than BDSM.

In my opinion, a person should be as open or closed as they want. And I don't think they have any obligation to promote tolerance for BDSM.

I mean, seriously, just because someone enjoys BDSM activities it doesn't mean they have to be a crusader for those activities.



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (6/1/2012 9:13:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele
I mean, seriously, just because someone enjoys BDSM activities it doesn't mean they have to be a crusader for those activities.

This is true. Pretty much what I do is I don't crusade for it or anything like that but, if someone starts talking shit about it around me, depending on who it is, I'd like to help the person calm down & be more tolerant. Sometimes, though, that's just impossible.

NBMG



subbyinlosangele -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (6/1/2012 10:25:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele
I mean, seriously, just because someone enjoys BDSM activities it doesn't mean they have to be a crusader for those activities.

This is true. Pretty much what I do is I don't crusade for it or anything like that but, if someone starts talking shit about it around me, depending on who it is, I'd like to help the person calm down & be more tolerant. Sometimes, though, that's just impossible.

NBMG



I don't see that having anything to do with BDSM though. i don't care if someone talks shit about BDSM or thinks its evil or whatever. BDSM is simply a fun activity I like to add to my life, and I couldn't care less if someone else wants to add it or not.



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (6/1/2012 10:45:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele


quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele
I mean, seriously, just because someone enjoys BDSM activities it doesn't mean they have to be a crusader for those activities.

This is true. Pretty much what I do is I don't crusade for it or anything like that but, if someone starts talking shit about it around me, depending on who it is, I'd like to help the person calm down & be more tolerant. Sometimes, though, that's just impossible.

NBMG



I don't see that having anything to do with BDSM though. i don't care if someone talks shit about BDSM or thinks its evil or whatever. BDSM is simply a fun activity I like to add to my life, and I couldn't care less if someone else wants to add it or not.

I couldn't care less either. What I'm saying is it would be nice if, even if they don't want to include it in their lives, they would just live and let live and not be so frickin judgmental of people who do choose to include it. That's all.

NBMG



subbyinlosangele -> RE: Promoting Tolerance (6/1/2012 11:51:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele


quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele
I mean, seriously, just because someone enjoys BDSM activities it doesn't mean they have to be a crusader for those activities.

This is true. Pretty much what I do is I don't crusade for it or anything like that but, if someone starts talking shit about it around me, depending on who it is, I'd like to help the person calm down & be more tolerant. Sometimes, though, that's just impossible.

NBMG



I don't see that having anything to do with BDSM though. i don't care if someone talks shit about BDSM or thinks its evil or whatever. BDSM is simply a fun activity I like to add to my life, and I couldn't care less if someone else wants to add it or not.

I couldn't care less either. What I'm saying is it would be nice if, even if they don't want to include it in their lives, they would just live and let live and not be so frickin judgmental of people who do choose to include it. That's all.

NBMG




I dont associate with many judgmental people myself



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