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Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/29/2012 10:01:08 AM

Musicmystery

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/may/28/solar-power-world-record-germany?INTCMP=SRCH

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/29/2012 6:37:34 PM

MercTech

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the big problem with solar is that to generate the amount of electric power it takes to manufacture a solar panel would take over 15 years but the median life of a solar panel is 5 years.
Good for relocating power to inaccessible areas like a cabin on a mountain but not efficient as a power plant replacement... loss overall leading to more pollution and greenhouse effect.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/29/2012 6:44:23 PM

Hillwilliam

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http://bostonsolar.us/boston-solar-energy-blog/bid/68011/Solar-panels-lifetime-productivity-and-maintenance-costs

Youve listened to FOX too much

"and the 30-40 year lifespan of most current solar energy systems"

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/29/2012 7:18:53 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

the big problem with solar is that to generate the amount of electric power it takes to manufacture a solar panel would take over 15 years but the median life of a solar panel is 5 years.
Good for relocating power to inaccessible areas like a cabin on a mountain but not efficient as a power plant replacement... loss overall leading to more pollution and greenhouse effect.

Somebody didn't read the article, but just repeated old misconceptions.

Germany says you're wrong:

German solar power plants produced a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity – equal to 20 nuclear power stations at full capacity – through the midday hours of Friday and Saturday, the head of a renewable energy think tank has said.

Germany's government decided to abandon nuclear power after the Fukushima nuclear disaster last year, closing eight plants immediately and shutting down the remaining nine by 2022. They will be replaced by renewable energy sources such as wind, solar and bio-mass.

Norbert Allnoch, director of the Institute of the Renewable Energy Industry in Muenster, said the 22 gigawatts of solar power fed into the national grid on Saturday met nearly 50% of the nation's midday electricity needs.

"Never before anywhere has a country produced as much photovoltaic electricity," Allnoch told Reuters. "Germany came close to the 20 gigawatt mark a few times in recent weeks. But this was the first time we made it over."

The record-breaking amount of solar power shows one of the world's leading industrial nations was able to meet a third of its electricity needs on a work day, Friday, and nearly half on Saturday when factories and offices were closed.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/29/2012 7:22:36 PM

LadyConstanze

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I think about 20 years ago it was true that the solar panels weren't too effective, but things changed A LOT in 20 years...

Germany and Austria were always very green and on the forefront of recycling, seeing energy panels on houses is nothing unusual. I'm always a bit shocked that in CA you hardly see houses with solar panels...

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/29/2012 7:36:10 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I think about 20 years ago it was true that the solar panels weren't too effective, but things changed A LOT in 20 years...

Germany and Austria were always very green and on the forefront of recycling, seeing energy panels on houses is nothing unusual. I'm always a bit shocked that in CA you hardly see houses with solar panels...

If I could raise about 20K, there'd be 4000 SF of south facing solar panels on the roof of my office building. Payoff is about 7 years now. After that, it's gravy. $$$$$$$$$

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/29/2012 8:44:21 PM

LadyConstanze

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Don't you have grants for using solar panels and power in the US? In Europe they tend to support it a lot, as they want to use as little fossil energy sources as possible, due to the pollution and the fact that the supplies are not unlimited.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/29/2012 11:42:44 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Don't you have grants for using solar panels and power in the US? In Europe they tend to support it a lot, as they want to use as little fossil energy sources as possible, due to the pollution and the fact that the supplies are not unlimited.

Tax breaks. Prob is you have to be making enough money to pay taxes first.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 7:26:40 AM

DesFIP

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The breaks come and go depending on which party is in power. So you can't count on them not being slashed by the next election.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 1:57:48 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The breaks come and go depending on which party is in power. So you can't count on them not being slashed by the next election.

and it depends on the state you are in also since some states have "incentives".. my complaint is that the "breaks/incentives" I have looked into say they have to be "professionally installed" so its not going to help the DIYer (like me) so imo you have to look at the cost/benefit thing excluding the so called "breaks"..

Germany being major into solar isnt news imo.. Germany as a solar example does dispell the "we dont get enough sun for solar" excuse tho..

and if i were to do solar i would want to do the peel and stick kind.. but imo, super-insulating a house is another alternative idea to cut back on the power/energy used.. I was looking at a website of a China sustainable builder that puts up prefab steel component hirises (around the world) in a matter of a week or so.. and they super insulate their buildings, use triple pane glass windows, etc etc

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 2:08:00 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

Germany as a solar example does dispell the "we dont get enough sun for solar" excuse tho..

And that's why it's news.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 2:57:49 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Germany as a solar example does dispell the "we dont get enough sun for solar" excuse tho..

And that's why it's news.

not to me..

I wouldnt mind an electric truck with solar on it tho.. but at $20 or 30k for a solar install on a house,.. I cant get excited about it.. even if Germany is..

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 3:53:23 PM

Musicmystery

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Oddly, your personal excitement is not the metric editors go by.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 5:24:34 PM

Karmastic

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fr-

i admire Germany (and Germans, stereotypically) for this, and many other things. they are leaders for many good things, from being green, to being industrious, good consumer and privacy laws, good social programs, having a relatively good economy, Etc.

it's interesting how an industrious society can be turned towards such extremes of evil or good.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 7:51:35 PM

MercTech

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I was basing my data on the pilot solar energy project outside of Sacramento, California. I was doing a contract for SMUD back in 2006 and had access to the actual maintenance data on the solar arrays.

The drop off in efficiency over time and the high replacement rate did nothing to impress me.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 8:21:33 PM

Musicmystery

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Seems you've got a few things to learn then.

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 8:50:54 PM

TheHeretic

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Give this one a read, Muse. Better than $600 million in federal loans on this project.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 9:01:15 PM

Musicmystery

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I like the plant that uses arrays of mirrors in the desert to heat water to turn steam turbines. Cheap, efficient, reliable.

I'm not actually a big fan of solar electric. Wind, which I'd formerly have consider not that reliable, has come a long way.

Have you seen the new turbines? Wide at the bottom, parabola like curve to the top. Uses sun energy to heat rising air while unidirectionally catching wind (not sure how that works), the turbines sending the air out the top, no exposed blades. Clever.

I AM a big fan of passive solar heating. Takes nothing but attention to design and high quality windows.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/30/2012 9:02:12 PM >

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RE: Unfeasible Solar? Not in Germany! - 5/30/2012 9:29:05 PM

TheHeretic

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Oh yeah, Muse. I get to see all the latest and greatest models of wind turbines, whether I like them or not. I'm blessed with a hill, which blocks my view of them from the house, but they are a little hard to miss, day or night from most places, with the red aircraft warning lights on top of every damn one of them.

Until the potentially deadly dust from the solar projects cuts visibility to a few hundred yards.

The sun tower, you'll be pleased to hear, is up to being turned on three or four days a week, but they never have brought down the construction frame on the second tower, and it's still very rare to see any venting steam. It's a very cool idea, but the bugs are slow to work out, it appears.

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