RE: Rewards, attention, being owned

RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

ResidentSadist -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/3/2012 6:58:28 PM)
I agree with Cali, there have been some insightful replies. To expand on what many have already said and add another perspective look at it, in my house, I don't micro manage, I assign control. To use a terrible stereotype, she is in charge of the washing, she is the leader of the laundry. The same is true for my social life. I want to go to 2 BDSM events/parties a month. She researches the parties available, socializes by chatting with friends and finds out which parties will have more of our friends at them and fits it all into a schedule. I look at it like she is doing me a service, she is my social liaison. Others may think she is in control of my social life and is representing my house instead of me and to a degree they are right. However, she is doing my bidding so I see it as a service, she does work and makes decisions on my behalf so I don't have to spend my time doing that. More perspectives . . . a friend of mine has his slave look at the menu and order dinner for him in restaurants. I am less refined, primal and more of the pact mentality when it comes to food. It's fine for the ladies to muck about with all that highbrow social shit, parties and such. But for me, food is primal and the male lion eats first effectively deciding what he leaves for others to eat. Don't get between the lion and his food, he will bite you and don't try and order for me. I may ask my slave what she wants but I am the one to order it from the waitress because like the lion, I am in control of the food chain. So to me, from my perspective, it feels like my friend shows weakness because he lets his slave control the food chain and order for him. He looks at it as her service to him. Whether it is the washing, the social calendar or who orders the food in a restaurant, it is matter of personal dynamics and perspectives. I know my friend feels as much the supreme commander and chief of his house as I do mine even though our styles are different.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/3/2012 7:12:31 PM)
quote: Is it really more a symbolic dynamic than the so called deeper connection, more trust, etc.? Thoughts? Thanks in advance for replies. Reality is often stranger than fiction, nearly anything you can image exists. There's always been an aspect of the symbolic in any relationship I've been in. How deep the connection and trust levels are varies according to the level of honesty, communication and chemistry. Deeper for who? the Dom or submissive? LOL Deeper connection how? Mentally? Spirtually? Emotionally? Sexually? Deeper in terms of serving or being served? There's a range of depth here even. There's also a range of symbolics involved as well.

LadyPact -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/3/2012 7:43:57 PM)
Yes, there were good replies regarding relationships. I'm a little more focused on the issue that some folks had with the word reward. Is there really a difference between a person doing something out of their way or not the first pick on their list because it's something the other person enjoys and reward? Let Me try it another way. I'm a sadist. Chances are, when I want to play, I want to hurt somebody. So if I go with wax play instead because I know how much the other party enjoys it and I want to show that person how pleased I am with them, that can't be called a reward? I don't meet that many bottoms who would turn down a good wax scene. What's that nice, warming sensation? (Before you say anything, Jeff, I'm not talking about the mean kind. [:D])

subbyinlosangele -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/3/2012 11:16:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SP463 I have been in this lifestyle for just a couple of years now and feel like i am missing the point about things such as "rewards", attention, being owned and so much more. These things seem to parallel vanilla relationships to an almost identical degree. And i basically see the subs as running the show overall and the dynamic of the Dom as mostly symbolic. Kinda like the old joke that i wear the pants in my marriage and my wife says i can. I guess i am questioning the dynamic more than the kink. Hell, who doesn't like a little wild sex and role playing. Is it really more a symbolic dynamic than the so called deeper connection, more trust, etc.? Thoughts? Thanks in advance for replies. Basically, you're finding what you want to find. There is no true singular "dynamic" There is simply a spectrum, with people on every part of it. Some want a bit of kinky. Some want really extreme stuff. There are people on every part of the spectrum. If you can imagine "it," there is someone for whom "it" is perfection and another for whom "it" is abhorrent and another for whom "it" is okay for the moment. So put a fork in the metaphysical crap. If you are honest with yourself, and seek out what you truly want, you don't give a shit about the "dynamic" or the "lifestyle" or any crap like that. You don't think about grandise philosophical world views. You only seek one person who you connect with. Like everyone else. So get real or get lost. Your choice.

SailingBum -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/3/2012 11:58:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SP463 I have been in this lifestyle for just a couple of years now and feel like i am missing the point about things such as "rewards", attention, being owned and so much more. These things seem to parallel vanilla relationships to an almost identical degree. And i basically see the subs as running the show overall and the dynamic of the Dom as mostly symbolic. Kinda like the old joke that i wear the pants in my marriage and my wife says i can. I guess i am questioning the dynamic more than the kink. Hell, who doesn't like a little wild sex and role playing. Is it really more a symbolic dynamic than the so called deeper connection, more trust, etc.? Thoughts? Thanks in advance for replies. For those that say that magically due to BSDM relationship there is somehow inherently a deeper level of trust connection whatever are just kidding themselves. To my way of thinking it takes a whole lot more than a BDSM relationship to trust someone to raise my kids or manage my money. BDSM is only one facet in a relationship. BadOne

kitkat105 -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/4/2012 1:37:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Yes, there were good replies regarding relationships. I'm a little more focused on the issue that some folks had with the word reward. Is there really a difference between a person doing something out of their way or not the first pick on their list because it's something the other person enjoys and reward? Let Me try it another way. I'm a sadist. Chances are, when I want to play, I want to hurt somebody. So if I go with wax play instead because I know how much the other party enjoys it and I want to show that person how pleased I am with them, that can't be called a reward? I don't meet that many bottoms who would turn down a good wax scene. What's that nice, warming sensation? (Before you say anything, Jeff, I'm not talking about the mean kind. [:D]) I understand what you mean about reward. I think for some people though it seems almost childish. "Oh you're a good sub, let me reward you by doing ... "In the same breath, I'm sure there are times even in power relationships where things just happen purely for the mutual enjoyment of both parties. Certainly doesn't mean the Top/Master/Dominant is any less powerful. I like to think Odeen indulges me rather than rewards me. Language is a funny thing. [;)] For instance, even as a masochist, there are certain toys I enjoy more.. if He picks that toy, we both win, don't we? As for the OP, like almost everyone has mentioned, no relationship is clearly defined and thats certainly the case in BDSM. If you're not finding what you desire, you just have to keep looking.

OsideGirl -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/4/2012 7:35:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I agree with Cali, there have been some insightful replies. To expand on what many have already said and add another perspective look at it, in my house, I don't micro manage, I assign control. To use a terrible stereotype, she is in charge of the washing, she is the leader of the laundry. The same is true for my social life. I want to go to 2 BDSM events/parties a month. She researches the parties available, socializes by chatting with friends and finds out which parties will have more of our friends at them and fits it all into a schedule. I look at it like she is doing me a service, she is my social liaison. Others may think she is in control of my social life and is representing my house instead of me and to a degree they are right. However, she is doing my bidding so I see it as a service, she does work and makes decisions on my behalf so I don't have to spend my time doing that. More perspectives . . . a friend of mine has his slave look at the menu and order dinner for him in restaurants. I am less refined, primal and more of the pact mentality when it comes to food. It's fine for the ladies to muck about with all that highbrow social shit, parties and such. But for me, food is primal and the male lion eats first effectively deciding what he leaves for others to eat. Don't get between the lion and his food, he will bite you and don't try and order for me. I may ask my slave what she wants but I am the one to order it from the waitress because like the lion, I am in control of the food chain. So to me, from my perspective, it feels like my friend shows weakness because he lets his slave control the food chain and order for him. He looks at it as her service to him. Whether it is the washing, the social calendar or who orders the food in a restaurant, it is matter of personal dynamics and perspectives. I know my friend feels as much the supreme commander and chief of his house as I do mine even though our styles are different. There's an analogy: A good manager isn't someone that can do every job well. S/he is someone that knows how to delegate that job to someone who can. Master does not micro manage. He has clearly delineated what falls under my control and within those borders, I'm free to make the decisions. There's a good saying among Masters friends:" Just because you're displeased with my submissive, doesn't mean that I am." I don't have to live up to someone else's ideals. I only have to live up to His.

NuevaVida -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/4/2012 7:51:50 PM)
~ Fast Reply ~ Well I think "rewards" can be taken in various ways. If it's "Do this and you get a treat" sort of thing, he would be turning the treat into my incentive to do whatever it is, rather than just doing it because submitting to him is what I do. I don't see it as a "childish" thing - The bonus I get at work for a job well done is a reward and not childish at all. But if my job offers financial incentives to meet certain goals, then I'm going to do my best to meet those goals. At home it's different - I do my best for the good of our relationship. If he feels so good about what I've done that he wants to give me a treat as a result (whether it's going out to dinner, or a good whipping or anything else), then that's just him being kind and loving and generous. We might call it a reward, but it's not the original incentive. As for who has control, etc....here's how it works for us - He always has the authority, but he exercises that authority in a way that he feels is best for the relationship overall. I'll always do what he says, but as a good leader, he is also a visionary. He'll focus on the overall goal that he wants for us down the road, and lead us toward that. That might mean understanding and/or deciding that XYZ is not in our best interest right now, even though he wants it. He might decide that pushing for XYZ risks creating an emotional upheaval for me that he doesn't want, or that it might come with more problems than benefits right now, so he'll decide to wait on it, until he thinks we're better equipped to deal with it. This doesn't mean I'm in control because I don't want to do something. It means he's thinking beyond his nose and deciding what he thinks is best. All the while, the reality of our days together is that I'm doing what he wants. Cooking what he wants, cleaning the way he wants it, watching what he wants on TV, going to bed when he wants, getting up when he wants, and so on. As for sitting on the floor - I typically do sit on the floor. I've never been required to, I just do it. I like resting my head on his knee, and that he plays with my hair and I rub his feet while we're watching TV. Sometimes he'll tell me to snuggle up with him on the couch, and I'm happy there, too. It's not a fantasy to regularly sit on the floor. Sometimes my tush gets soar (hip issues) so I'll sit on a cushion and joke about being a pillow princess. [8D] People can look from the outside, in, all they want, and make whatever judgments they want. No one really knows the intimacies of someone elses relationship. In the case of the shy sub who stayed in his room....I agree that maybe all of the dominant's needs are met and this was one area where the dominant felt it unnecessary to push the sub. Some things are slower processes than others. To say "Oh the sub is in control in THAT relationship" is kind of short sighted. And yeah I'm in agreement with the "We're not deeper" sentiment. Relationship depth is fully dependent on the people in the relationship, no matter what relationship dynamic they have chosen.

JeffBC -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/4/2012 11:23:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Yes, there were good replies regarding relationships. I'm a little more focused on the issue that some folks had with the word reward. Is there really a difference between a person doing something out of their way or not the first pick on their list because it's something the other person enjoys and reward? Carol and I talk about reward and it's cousin, punishment, on and off. Our opinion is that in our marriage the reward is the magical feeling of closeness we both have when it's working right. When something happens which messes with that, then it carries it's own punishment right along with it because like two intimacy junkies we crave the "togetherness". Those are the two forces which really serve to mold and shape up and they motivate behavior and behavioral changes in both of us quite effectively. In terms of "doing nice things" for our partner, that's more in the category of "as much as possible as often as possible" -- for both of us. We both make every effort to make such things business as usual which takes away from the "reward" value of them. I think, back to the OP's question, in an awful lot of ways our dynamic is exactly what he's referring to. There is a ton of give & take. The normal vanilla-plumbing of our relationship is pretty much right there on the surface for all to see. It certainly doesn't look very "BDSM-ey" in any particular sense. The truth, however, is that pretty much every single facet of our life is shaped by me -- as is an awful lot of Carol. But since an awful lot of my authority and control is used for the express purpose of spoiling Carol rotten it'd be easy to see how someone might think it doesn't really look all that "alternative". And LP, it's not the "mean" wax scene that I'd be worried about with you. It's the mean wax removal scene that is to be feared LOL

Jaquin -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/5/2012 12:28:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida People can look from the outside, in, all they want, and make whatever judgments they want. No one really knows the intimacies of someone elses relationship. In the case of the shy sub who stayed in his room....I agree that maybe all of the dominant's needs are met and this was one area where the dominant felt it unnecessary to push the sub. Some things are slower processes than others. To say "Oh the sub is in control in THAT relationship" is kind of short sighted. Well my view on that too is what if the she liked cooking? Would it not then be seen as an exertion of her control over him to do the cooking instead of him?

LadyPact -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/5/2012 12:30:20 AM)
These last few are wayyyy more what I'm talking about. So often, people don't really look at the meaning of words or their definitions. Sometimes, I think we go through the evolution of kinkifying some words, then decide that's silly and take them back. Watch. Someday, it wouldn't surprise Me if "kinkify" turns out to be a word. I will agree that you can't look at a relationship and get the entire picture. The way RS delegates the responsibility of the social calendar is completely different in My house because, I'm better at it. If I left it up to MP, My next social appearance might be New Year's Eve 1219. PS. Jeff, shhhhh. We're not supposed to talk about that. You'll never guess who My wax bottom is in two weeks. [8D]

NuevaVida -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/5/2012 6:46:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaquin quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida People can look from the outside, in, all they want, and make whatever judgments they want. No one really knows the intimacies of someone elses relationship. In the case of the shy sub who stayed in his room....I agree that maybe all of the dominant's needs are met and this was one area where the dominant felt it unnecessary to push the sub. Some things are slower processes than others. To say "Oh the sub is in control in THAT relationship" is kind of short sighted. Well my view on that too is what if the she liked cooking? Would it not then be seen as an exertion of her control over him to do the cooking instead of him? I love cooking. I don't insist I do the cooking, I do it because he loves my cooking. Sometimes he joins me in the kitchen, and as someone whose kitchen has always been my "domain", trust me when I say it was really difficult for me to learn to move aside because he wants in there, too. He plans what I cook, too. Just because I like something doesn't mean I'm controlling when and how I do it. It doesn't mean I'm not submitting. There's a LOT of what I do for him that I like. How miserable would he be if I disliked doing things for him? I think maybe you missed the part in my post where I said he has overall authority over the bigger picture...? Edited to add a thought about cooking: For any outsider looking in, it may seem that I have full control over the kitchen. But if I'm cooking when he wants, what he wants, how he wants it, and serve it the way he wants to see it...who's really in control? He's really into plating. A dish needs to look appealing to him when he sits down to eat. So, for example, a serving of halibut is not just going to be a piece of fish on a plate. It will come with a freshly made mango/red bell pepper relish, and if there's rice, it will have very finely chopped veggies in it, or will be garnished with parsley. The dish must be colorful, and arranged nicely on the plate (no drips of sauce spilled where it doesn't belong). Serving size must be what he wants. Wine glasses must be chilled in advance. If we're having pasta, it will be served with shaved parmesan, not grated, because he prefers shaved. So, while you might see me humming around the kitchen, in my joy, preparing this dinner for him, you might think I'm in control over it....but who's really in control? And here's the thing - if I did insist we're going to have XYZ for dinner, and this is when I'll serve it, and this is how I'll prepare it, and he allowed that, then I'm only doing that because he allowed it, which means he's still exercising authority. From the outside looking in, people can make whatever assumptions they like, but without knowing all the behind-the-scenes details about the situation, it's just an assumption, and it would be an incorrect one. Not that we care, though, we'd be too busy enjoying dinner. [;)]

Endivius -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/5/2012 2:24:09 PM)
I have allways believed that a carrot is much better than a stick. But every once in a while, it's the stick that gets the results. I was with this girl a while back and she lied to me about smoking. I caught her, and sat her down and told her to tell me the truth. She confessed, and I told her that she had two options: I could lite one of the cigarettes she had been smoking (she wasn't supposed to be smoking) and put it out on her tongue, or she could promise to never do it again. She obviously chose the promise never to do it again method. Before I left the room I dropped the little nugget of wisdom on her that if she lied to me again about anything, I wouldn't use a cigarrette, I'd use a razor blade, and I'd cut her tongue until I was satisfied that she had learned her lesson. She never (to my knowledge) lied to me about even the smallest thing after that. Sometimes fear is a fantastic motivator, it works to a certain extent. The problem with using the "punishment" method, is that it only works as long as the punishment or the fear of it is greater than the desire to the contrary. Now the reward method on the other hand, is inherent in that it is almost allways greater than the desire to act out or misbehave. On those rare occassions, it isnt the desire that is allways directly motiving the behavior. Sometimes it's the punishment, and the need to be wild or unruly. This is not to say that a bottom of whatever label is a bad bottom. They just need that push on occassion to reaffirm thier place in the relationship. Certainly not all are like that, and certainly those that are do not allways do it for those reasons. It's been my experience that the "funishment" that a lot of people talk about are just ways for one of the parties to get that "fix" to keep the spark and chemistry in place in the relationship. That's all well and good, but a different scenario all together. What I'm talking about here, is real disapointment. When the boundaries of the trust you have built are infringed upon, sometimes you have to reinforce them. You can use whatever method works for you. From my experience, carrot works 99% of the time, and the 1% you gotta use stick, is almost allways the most memorable and intense. If I was ever in a situation where those numbers were reversed I don't think I could be happy, and most assuredly she probably wouldn't be either. YMMV.

OsideGirl -> RE: Rewards, attention, being owned (6/5/2012 2:32:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC Our opinion is that in our marriage the reward is the magical feeling of closeness we both have when it's working right. When something happens which messes with that, then it carries it's own punishment right along with it because like two intimacy junkies we crave the "togetherness". Those are the two forces which really serve to mold and shape up and they motivate behavior and behavioral changes in both of us quite effectively. In terms of "doing nice things" for our partner, that's more in the category of "as much as possible as often as possible" -- for both of us. We both make every effort to make such things business as usual which takes away from the "reward" value of them. This is pretty much our view as well. The "reward" is having a happy, stable, peaceful marriage and getting to spend time with someone we love. If something fails, we both get the punishment of dealing with friction, unhappiness and arguments. While he might jokingly say "You've been a good girl, you deserve ice cream" it's really just doing something nice for each other. It's not attached to a specific act.

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875