It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (Full Version)

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SternSkipper -> It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/6/2012 10:33:52 PM)

... But Wisconsin definitely affected this local situation. Please forgive how late this is but I wanted to post it while it was still relevant, in terms of the account I prepared after our campaign call this morning. Again, sorry ... got involved in this whole big roll up to the candidate being interviewed tomorrow on a radio program. ... Anyway... check this out...


Last night at the Pilgrim Nuclear Plant, a FORTY-PLUS YEAR OLD PLANT, I believe that it's about 3 years younger than fukushima (same design)... Anyway, the guy who is the SE Mass regional organizer works there as a shift foreman of their fire control group (The plant has it's own highly specialized private fire department, which the Plymouth FD is only trained to provide 'external support' to). During our Campaign's daily con-call he reported that last night at midnight they were escorted off the premises by security and they were informed that "management" was now running all the plant's functions due the fact that the corporate legal team has advised them top cease all negotiations with union representatives". Bill's wife is a shop steward and was in attendance according to Bill and he indicated she told him that they had a TV brought in after the dinner break because they had apparently heard things weren't going well in Wisconsin. They were also given a proposal for settlement that was a major turn-around from the previous and partly encouraging position the company had been taking, leaving them no choice but to vote against.
They got a call at 11:30 and were told to close down negotiations by the corporation's legal dept. They were all smiles as they left and were saying things like "looks like things aren't going to be they used to for labor after tonight. Certainly Legal got a second wind out of tonight's developments". Bill's wife Lisa called him and told him "You're probably not going to finish your shift" or something like that. I am paraphrasing a bit perhaps because I was surprised to even be going over this in a campaign communications and appearance scheduling meeting. But the Candidate was all ears so Bill laid it all out for us.
Now on first glance it would appear to be a "so what? Labor got what they deserved." to the average anti-labor type. But now let's look at what this really is. Which is that one of the oldest, highest maintenance nuclear reactor clusters on the entire east coast is now being, run, maintained, and safeguarded by people with NO PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE. And there is NO LONGER A FIRE DEPARTMENT overseeing safety ANYWHERE in the plant. The town of Plymouth, Ma has an inadequately trained Fire Department (even though they may have the best training in the state, the real experts are the DOE Trained and Certified firefighters who work privately within the plant The nearest qualified team right now works for another company 1 hour 15 minutes away (if there are NO other cars on the road between those two points ... which is NEVER the case).
Then there are all the other inspection and safety functions that have to go on HOURLY, and even minute to minute. According to Bill, over night there is now TWO engineers with bachelor's degrees doing what that same two engineers and 16 other IEEE Certified Technicians and Electricians doing 18 did last night. And he said that is a smaller crew than during peak power distribution hours. He also says that the plant being as old as it is has many times the number of problems on a day to day basis than plants that are say 10 years old.
And that's not all, these corporate assholes are showing pure arrogance since the license of the plant has expired and they are doing wacked out shit just because they are gambling that New England can't do without even ONE of it's nuke plants.... And you know what? Based on the bullshit blackmail tactics NStar, Entergy, and National Grid have been holding the region over a barrel with (things like forcing the winter shut-off criteria to only protect people over 75 and under 6 months from being cut off in the winter months), based on that behavior rolling up to these events, they will probably get away with this too. But right now, thanks in part to Walker's victory, the northeast is at radiological risk.
Nice work Koch brothers and the rest of their kiss-ups.




SadistDave -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 1:12:44 AM)

There are a few slight problems with this fable you've concocted.

The age of the plant is irrelevant to your argument as you tie it's age into a misleading argument about Fukishima (but in fairness it is not irrelevant to the issue), as is the fact that it shares similar design features with the Fukishima plant. The Fukishima plant failed as the result of an earthquake not because of the design characteristics. Well, technically that's a little incorrect. The design critiques of Fukishima were based on the plants inability to withstand seismic activity (earthquakes). However, it functioned quite well until it experienced one and only failed under conditions that were far worse than the predictable worst case scenario. Your comparison is little more than fear-mongering, since there haven't been a whole lot of earthquakes near Pilgrim... ever.

The workers at Pilgrim have been negotiating a contract since theirs expired in May. At present, the union does not have a contract and they have openly been in and out of negotiations for a very long time. They have authorized at least 2 union strikes in the last 6 weeks. They have chosen to not work because they will not accept the terms they are being offered. So, basically, the unions want more than management is willing to offer and have decided to throw a collective temper tantrum (as unions are known to do from time to time...) In point of fact the unions have been striking on and off for quite some time because they refuse to accept the terms that management is offering them and insist on demanding more than management is willing to give them. In essence, the unions are taking advantage of the states pro-union labor laws.

This is part of Entergy's statement about the lockout: "Local 369 has stated flatly that while its members are not on strike, they reserve the right to walk off the job at any time, without any notice, and leave the nuclear power plant critically understaffed and in violation of the plant's operating license. This disregard for public safety is unacceptable. Accordingly, the company's contingency plan is being implemented."

According to this article, the plant currently holds a 20 year license as of a week ago. Your claim that it is unlicensed is factually incorrect. You have either deliberately chosen to misrepresent the truth, or know nothing about what is going on there.

The plant normally employs over 650 people. Only 250 or so have been locked out. There are 400 qualified people working at the plant still manning all of the essential systems. This brings up a little problem with the math. According to the local union goons, there are 380 union workers at the plant which makes up 90% work force. 380 people is no where near 90% of the 650 plant employees. I'm reasonably certain that there are not 270 managers for 380 workers. If there are, then it would appear to a rational person that the union employees weren't doing their jobs properly anyway if they required that much supervision.

This is not the first time non-essential personnel have been sent home. In May 100 people were sent home because they were not needed and those union members decided to picket the plant in protest. They were called back when they were needed.

Even according to the union member interviewed in the news video which accompanies the link, the plant is safe. (He just feels it would be safer with over-paid and apparently under-performing union labor at the helm.) If a qualified, local union employee believes it is safe, then there are apparently qualified people running the plant, which would seem to negate your ill-informed and unfounded concerns that there are no qualified people operating the facility.

In the real world, when you don't pay your bills your power gets cut off. Your belief that people should be allowed to freeload off the work and resources that they do not pay for as "bullshit" and "blackmail tactics" is beyond ridiculous. Their willingness to not shut off power to the elderly and families with toddlers actually says a lot for their character. Your assertion that people should be able to freeload on the grid says a lot for yours.

However, to be perfectly fair here, when I was looking into your fairy story I found one real reason for concern over the Pilgrim plant. The plant has a less than stellar safety record. Pilgrim has had several emergency shut-downs recently on the average of one every 60 days or so... In fact there have been something like 11 towns close to Pilgrim that have proactively tried to have it shut down completely as a safety hazard. The plant was designed to work for 40 years, and it has been re-licensed for an additional 20 years beyond it's design specs because it cannot and will not be replaced. In reality though, the plant will only become more dangerous with age in spite of the best efforts of management AND labor.

Realistically, the plant probably should be closed down. Unfortunately, that cannot happen until there is something to replace it's 680 MW output. That might actually take longer than the plant can continue to safely operate. I suspect that since Pilgrim is the only nuclear power plant in the state, much of the faux concern for safety by the union is nothing more than a desire to stay on the gravy train until the plant fails, at which point they will predictably blame management.

-SD-




servantforuse -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 6:28:37 AM)

This is related to Wisconsin. The group, Michigan Rising has suspended it's attempt to recall Gov. Rick Snyder. The reason is obvious.




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 7:17:41 AM)

Guess what Davie? The only 'fairy' (and it's NOT the truth fairy) is the guy MAKING UP the BS counterargument... Keep your wand in your pants.
I believe you'll find confirmation of the LOCK-OUT on the Boston Globe's web page. The Boston Herald is in the tank for Entergy... it's their 3rd biggest advertiser. But how come you're using the biz news as opposed to their regular paper?
You're also OUTRIGHT LYING WITH YOUR IMPLICATION I EVER SAID THEY WERE ON STRIKE. I SAID THEY WERE ESCORTED OFF THE PROPERTY.
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT Boy.




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 7:25:26 AM)

quote:

According to this article, the plant currently holds a 20 year license as of a week ago. Your claim that it is unlicensed is factually incorrect. You have either deliberately chosen to misrepresent the truth, or know nothing about what is going on there.


Hahahahahaha ... they have a 'provisional license' so they aren't runmning illegally while reviewed IF they are staffed according to DOE regs... they threw that staff out.
THEREFORE, they are operating illegally.

I'll presume you simply has no idea WTF you are taliking about and just need everybody to read the great sadist dave and couldn't find articles to the contrary for any other post. I'll therefore just let you rant from here forward unfettered.... you obviously need to.




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 7:31:56 AM)

Oh, and by the way, I stated very clearly there are ongoing issues at the plant because of it's age.

"In the real world, when you don't pay your bills your power gets cut off. Your belief that people should be allowed to freeload off the work and resources that they do not pay for as "bullshit" and "blackmail tactics" is beyond ridiculous. "

In the real world son, they have utilities laws and honest players don't try to hide their dealings with proposed changes to public utility laws from the public. In "the real world" that's why these regulatory constructs are called "PUBLIC".

It's "bullshit" to debate that the laws of construction in massachusetts have changed when they HAVEN'T AND YOU DON'T KNOW WTF You are talking about.




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 7:35:20 AM)

Oh My goodness someone's saying the content in the herald biz paper ISN'T true.... what'll we do now? There IS A LOCKOUT and WORKERS DON'T INSTITUTE LOCKOUTS... PERIOD

http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/06/06/pilgrim-nuclear-plant-dispute-leads-lockout/82FoXf56JrykqShpcBbjFK/story.html




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 7:50:19 AM)

Oh my ... If you go to the Herald itself tells a different story... see in the PAPER EVERYBODY ACTUALLY READS... They don't dare not report at least what SOME of the other players are saying (Hmmmm ... this came up WAyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy earlier in the hits than your 'convenient' biz piece... what's up with that? [8|] ):

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220606pilgrim_nuke_workers_back_on_picket_lines_as_negotiations_falter/srvc=home&position=also





SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 7:58:10 AM)


"The president of the Utility Workers Union of America Local 369 said Wednesday that plant owner Entergy locked out unionized employees after contract negotiations ended Tuesday. The union represents about 90 percent of the plant�s work force."

And this business of the 20 year provisional license a week back... where's the mention that Entergy pitched all kinds of staffing and worker safety components to get the license and as soon as the ink dried... they went on the attack against labor and Locked them out JUST AS I DESCRIBED.

Also note - I sent the decrying party's startling list of UN-FACTS to my campaign colleague Bill and hopefully I'll get an email back offering some explanation.





SadistDave -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 10:18:53 AM)

ROFLMAO! It appears that the only person ranting here is you SternSkipper. I'm going to keep this brief and just address a couple of things you brought up in the series of responses you posted.

Massachusetts is a pro-union state. State Senator Theresa Murray (cited in one of your articles) receives a significant amount of campaign funding from unions according to Ballotpedia, so it is not surprising that a pro-union official would predictably blame Entergy of not dealing in good faith...

State Senator Murray has been identified as a racketeer who feels that it is acceptable to give jobs to people based on their political affiliations. Her name appears in in a 2010 federal indictment in reference to at least 4 instances of arranging jobs for unqualified people based on their political connections. Considering her union connections, it is quite obvious that by using the term "good faith" in reference to the negotiations at Pilgrim, the Senator means that Entergy should roll over and give in to every demand of the unions whether those demands are reasonable or not.

As I have already said (as has Entergy) the plant DID initiate a lock-out, which is something we agree on, so trying to make it appear as though we do not is just another red herring.

The lock-out appears to have been initiated because Entergy feels that the unions are not dealing in good faith and the unions have threatened to shut the plant down completely, which is why the lock-out was initiated. I have been clear on this point.

You started this topic by giving the impression that the union is blameless in what is going on in Plymouth. You have misrepresented the truth, (like the fact that they are unlicensed when in fact they are), engaged in fear mongering (the Fukishima comparison), and omitted several facts about the threats and intent of the union during the negotiation process.

By the way, you are entirely correct that Wisconsin has bearing on this topic. The epic failures of the unions in Wisconsin this week indicates that the unions will not simply be allowed to invent your own "facts" and disseminate misinformation without being challenged anymore. While you seek out talking points from your superiors, actual thinking people in Massachusetts will be waking up to the fact that unions have bullied and hoodwinked them for a very long time.

They will be the people you had better be prepared to deal with, not me.

-SD-




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 10:21:05 AM)



When Boston Faux 25 ACTUALLY USES TERMS a 'labor group' uses to describe a situation (I mean AT ALL ... cause they do throw in "claim" ... but usually they just don't quote them at all and give their spin... this time they are talking about the potential risk to the community and not really disputing their claim)....
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/18714143/contract-dispute-union-workers-escorted-out-of-pilgrim-power-plant




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 10:29:37 AM)

quote:

The Fukishima plant failed as the result of an earthquake not because of the design characteristics. Well, technically that's a little incorrect.


That's true ... by your standard, Pilgrim One is in far worse shape than Fukushima was since it is failing little by little with no earthquake at all.
... Which I am satisfied makes my comparison and "tying" MUCH more relevant than you mislead readers with in order to set up your pro-corpocracy piece.

But why let real life circumstances get in the way?




SadistDave -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 10:51:28 AM)

Lets look at the entire statement: The Fukishima plant failed as the result of an earthquake not because of the design characteristics. Well, technically that's a little incorrect. The design critiques of Fukishima were based on the plants inability to withstand seismic activity (earthquakes). However, it functioned quite well until it experienced one and only failed under conditions that were far worse than the predictable worst case scenario.

Fukishima failed in precisely the way it was expected to fail. An earthquake rendered the plant inoperable. It failed due to influences beyond it's control. However, those influences were predicted because of the fact that the plant was built in an area known for seismic activity.

Pilgrim is failing because it has reached the limits of it's design specs. It has age that the designers deemed it unsafe at the time of it's construction.

Your point that age is the culprit is fair. The Fukishima comparison is nothing more than a transparent attempt to make the issue more frightening in an attempt to prove that only union thuggery can save the poor citizens of Massachusetts.

You may think it's a fair comparison. I think it's lame and I really kind of sad for unions if that's the sort of theatrics they must resort to.

-SD-




RacerJim -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 10:51:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

This is related to Wisconsin. The group, Michigan Rising has suspended it's attempt to recall Gov. Rick Snyder. The reason is obvious.

hehehe.

One less union-controlled State on the wall, one less union-controlled State;
Take one down, pass it around'
One less union-controlled State on the wall!




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 12:02:44 PM)

I am good with being called a ranter by a liar

Since OBVUIOUSLY you need to get your head out from up your ass clean to the neck when it comes to facts let's just take a moment to discuss the STRAWS you're grasping for 1st, you're implying a Senator from a basically rural beach community is some kind of gangster and it's based on WHAT? A partisan PUNY web based badmouthing Penny-Saver (that's it's journalistic status here in the bay state)

Oh and IF you're AT ALL interested in the accuracy of your sources, have a look at Scott Walker's record. It seems to be woefully inaccurate as to most accounts as to what was spent in his initial election to the Governor's seat and say nothing about the conservative estimate of $30 - 50 million in the most recent chapter. ... But this isn't really about factual data, is it kid. Too bad there isn't an abortion component, you could start calling women mad murderers or some shit like that.

But even with that said there's really nothing damning in your little foray into Murray's campaign finances, there's really nothing there. And use of MassINC's Commonwealth Magazine, demonstrates just how ignorant you are... They bill themselves as Massachusetts' Independent Political News Source. But you know what? They don't give ANY Attention to anyone who doesn't PAY them when it comes to candidates, you will see basically nothing in there about the FOUR PERSON (well 3 as of saturday) Race for US Senate. GEE, IT'S ONLY BIGGER LOCALLY than the presidential race right now. Course when our campaign contacted them they were looking for an 'honorarium' of about $2500. We researched how many people actually are exposed to them, found out it was mostly republicans locally and dropped the matter from our media prospects.
Maybe if you were from this part of the country you would be more familiar with the situation and would just know what the facts are and wouldn't have to dig for the most obscure sources to support your rather thin position on behalf of the over-sized power company.

But never mind ...you dig around for whatever bias you can find ... and meanwhile hold up the 'impeccable credentials' of WHO? Have you ever known of or been aware even who the principals are at Entergy????? I think not.
At least I LIVE in in the area and have been dealing with them and their predecessors all of my adult life... But how would that be a a qualification to speak about an issue against a puny detractor who's not really even honest about what comes up highest ranked in his google searches, which IS ALL YOU REALLY KNOW. And for all of five minutes... then throw in a few cliches like 'red herring' (gawd) and you're suddenly knowledgeable and aware, and equipped to go out and insult people you don't know from a hole in the wall.


quote:

As I have already said (as has Entergy) the plant DID initiate a lock-out, which is something we agree on, so trying to make it appear as though we do not is just another red herring.


Actually ... OWN WHAT YOU SAY... If you want to make idiotic statements cancelling out your testimony... Own both from post to post.
"They have chosen to not work because they will not accept the terms they are being offered. So, basically, the unions want more than management is willing to offer and have decided to throw a collective temper tantrum (as unions are known to do from time to time...) In point of fact the unions have been striking on and off for quite some time because they refuse to accept the terms that management is offering them and insist on demanding more than management is willing to give them. In essence, the unions are taking advantage of the states pro-union labor laws. "

'They have chosen not to work' (Let's just deal with the major gaff here and ignore the rest that follow since making yourself accurate in posting is YOUR JOB).... THESE MEN WERE ON THE JOB AND ESCORTED OFF PREMISES BY SECURITY.
Stop lying.


quote:

The lock-out appears to have been initiated because Entergy feels that the unions are not dealing in good faith and the unions have threatened to shut the plant down completely, which is why the lock-out was initiated. I have been clear on this point.

You started this topic by giving the impression that the union is blameless in what is going on in Plymouth. You have misrepresented the truth, (like the fact that they are unlicensed when in fact they are), engaged in fear mongering (the Fukishima comparison), and omitted several facts about the threats and intent of the union during the negotiation process.

By the way, you are entirely correct that Wisconsin has bearing on this topic. The epic failures of the unions in Wisconsin this week indicates that the unions will not simply be allowed to invent your own "facts" and disseminate misinformation without being challenged anymore. While you seek out talking points from your superiors, actual thinking people in Massachusetts will be waking up to the fact that unions have bullied and hoodwinked them for a very long time.

They will be the people you had better be prepared to deal with, not me.


All you're saying is that you support a bunch of corporate lies that SPOKESMEN from the firm are making. Good for you. You're willing to be a mouthpiece for crooks that wouldn't wipe their ass with you.
I'm impressed....epic corporate kiss-up act, turned asphyxiated effort to save face.
Whatever kiddo...




SternSkipper -> RE: It's not directly related to Wisconsin... (6/7/2012 12:08:14 PM)

quote:

Lets look at the entire statement: The Fukishima plant failed as the result of an earthquake not because of the design characteristics. Well, technically that's a little incorrect. The design critiques of Fukishima were based on the plants inability to withstand seismic activity (earthquakes). However, it functioned quite well until it experienced one and only failed under conditions that were far worse than the predictable worst case scenario.


Nah kid ... you can reverse whiteboard your shit to everybody else (though you might wanna get a show of hands and find out if anyone cares) ... I have two days worth of work to do ahead of me and need to get back to it.
I'm satisfied I've refuted any and all challenges you think you've lodged
and now we're down into the "I know more about fukushima than you do" which is NOTHING shy of pathetic.




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