This isn't what they said would happen

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Hillwilliam -> This isn't what they said would happen (6/11/2012 10:01:57 PM)
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/citizenship-sale-foreign-investors-flock-092400861.html I thought millionaires were supposed to be LEAVING the US for tax purposes?[8\|]

Moonhead -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/12/2012 5:05:34 AM)
Maybe none of these guys have read Atlas Shrugged?

Anaxagoras -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/12/2012 6:36:56 AM)
I think that besides the benefits that the programme provides to wealthy immigrants, one major factor that is attracting these people not mentioned in the article must surely be the situation in Europe at the moment. It does look that there is a real chance the Euro will break up due to a series of defaulting countries. Even Ireland which is the good little boy of Europe may well default because the debt it accrued to bail out its banks in 2010 is a multiple of the total borrowing it had owed since the foundation of the State itself in 1922! Other countries like Spain (which was said to be too big to bail out) and especially Greece display far less will to pay back debts. Greece will almost certainly go anyway. When these countries default financial chaos ensues, and people can lose everything overnight and many or most domestic businesses die. That would terrify a lot of wealthy immigrants. I'm surprised about what the guy moving from Canada said re. education since the OECD said Canada has the best education system in the world at the mo.

Fellow -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/12/2012 9:48:52 AM)
As the article says: 20 countries have similar programs. I read recently from Canadian newspaper a whining that too long processing time of these VIP high value immigrants makes Canada less competitive.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/12/2012 5:57:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Maybe none of these guys have read Atlas Shrugged? (Maybe ALL of them have).

Moonhead -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/13/2012 4:10:27 AM)
Foreigners, effendi: they probably have better sources for making them feel good about having a sense of plutocratic entitlement than Ayn Rand. [;)] (Hell, even Robert Heinlein did a better job of codifying that one, didn't he?)

SadistDave -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/15/2012 3:40:05 AM)
Michio Kaku once observed that America's greatest secret economic weapon is our eagerness to expedite permanent immigration status to geniuses from other countries. His contention is that in spite of our lowering standards of education and the dumbing down of America, we remain a solid socio/economic/military force in the world because we are still smart enough to import intelligent and/or technically talented people from other countries. But, we have another secret weapon. Another thing America has that many countries still don't have is opportunity. Let's face it, if you want to start a business, there are many parts of the world that certain businesses would either be banned outright or simply have no market. The American markets and industries are the most diverse in the world. If it can be used, it can be built. If it can be built, it can be used. Not so in other parts of the world... Personally, I don't have a problem with this. Less than 40% of the people who have applied for this sort of citizenship have been able to meet the requirements. Those people who have met the requirements have created jobs for people in this country. More importantly, they have done it legally. My only problem with criminal immigrants is that they are here in violation of the law, yet they increasingly demand or are given priveleges and rights that citizens and legal immigrants are legally denied. -SD-

Moonhead -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/15/2012 4:32:27 AM)
In theory that's true. In practice a lot of medical research was driven out of your country into Asia under the last Presidency. Stem cell research is a case in point for that.

thompsonx -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/15/2012 6:30:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Michio Kaku once observed that America's greatest secret economic weapon is our eagerness to expedite permanent immigration status to geniuses from other countries. His contention is that in spite of our lowering standards of education and the dumbing down of America, we remain a solid socio/economic/military force in the world because we are still smart enough to import intelligent and/or technically talented people from other countries. When was this point in the history of the u.s. when we started "dumbing down" the educton system? quote: But, we have another secret weapon. Another thing America has that many countries still don't have is opportunity. Let's face it, if you want to start a business, there are many parts of the world that certain businesses would either be banned outright or simply have no market. The American markets and industries are the most diverse in the world. If it can be used, it can be built. If it can be built, it can be used. Not so in other parts of the world... Can you sell dildos in texas? Can anyone grow tobacco comercially? Can anyone grow peanuts comercially? Who may raise crawfish? quote: Personally, I don't have a problem with this. Less than 40% of the people who have applied for this sort of citizenship have been able to meet the requirements. Those people who have met the requirements have created jobs for people in this country. You might want to go back and read the article. It mentions that most of the five projects cited are not finished, are not making money and are not creating perminant jobs. quote: More importantly, they have done it legally. My only problem with criminal immigrants is that they are here in violation of the law, Which law are they violating? Do you believe that comitting a misdomeanor makes one a criminal? Were you aware that it is a felony to employ those who have crossed the border illegally? quote: yet they increasingly demand or are given priveleges and rights that citizens and legal immigrants are legally denied. -SD- Which specific rights/priviledges are you speaking of?

SadistDave -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/15/2012 5:08:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Michio Kaku once observed that America's greatest secret economic weapon is our eagerness to expedite permanent immigration status to geniuses from other countries. His contention is that in spite of our lowering standards of education and the dumbing down of America, we remain a solid socio/economic/military force in the world because we are still smart enough to import intelligent and/or technically talented people from other countries. When was this point in the history of the u.s. when we started "dumbing down" the educton system? quote: But, we have another secret weapon. Another thing America has that many countries still don't have is opportunity. Let's face it, if you want to start a business, there are many parts of the world that certain businesses would either be banned outright or simply have no market. The American markets and industries are the most diverse in the world. If it can be used, it can be built. If it can be built, it can be used. Not so in other parts of the world... Can you sell dildos in texas? Can anyone grow tobacco comercially? Can anyone grow peanuts comercially? Who may raise crawfish? quote: Personally, I don't have a problem with this. Less than 40% of the people who have applied for this sort of citizenship have been able to meet the requirements. Those people who have met the requirements have created jobs for people in this country. You might want to go back and read the article. It mentions that most of the five projects cited are not finished, are not making money and are not creating perminant jobs. quote: More importantly, they have done it legally. My only problem with criminal immigrants is that they are here in violation of the law, Which law are they violating? Do you believe that comitting a misdomeanor makes one a criminal? Were you aware that it is a felony to employ those who have crossed the border illegally? quote: yet they increasingly demand or are given priveleges and rights that citizens and legal immigrants are legally denied. -SD- Which specific rights/priviledges are you speaking of? Some people would argue that the dumbing down of America began with the Dept. of Education. Personally, I would contribute it to the formation of teachers unions. In fairness, I don't think anyone could point to a specific moment in time for it. You might want to take a look at the figures on America's ranking in education. As of 2010 the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Developement ranked us #14 in the world for basic education. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that any of the countries that ranked above the U.S. offer college degrees in superheros... I think there is definitely cause for concern though when countries like Poland, South Korea, and New Zealand outrank America in reading, math , and science though. You might do well to learn the difference between state and country. Someone can sell dildos in Missouri or Kansas. In fact, I dare say that the majority of states allow it. However, there is no federal ban of dildos. While there are certainly some industries that we regulate heavily (or sometimes out of existance) you seem to be trying to argue that since some industries are deemed illegal, that there are no opportunities. For instance, peanut farming IS legal commercially, but it is very heavily regulated because growing large quantities of peanuts damages the soil. America is the #4 grower of commercial tobacco so it is clearly possible and legal to grow it commercially IF someone is willing to meet the onerous resrictions placed on the industry. In all honesty, I have no clue what you're trying to get at with the crayfish question. They are raised commercially in America for human consumption, bait, and there are even a few species that are sold for fish tanks which qualify as pets rather than livestock. I am still trying to wrap my brain around the utter ignorance of the rest of your post. Entering the country without a visa is against the law. Bypassing the border checkpots to enter a country is illegal in virtually every country in the world. So, upon entering America without documentation or by trekking through the wilderness to avoid the border checkpoints, they are criminals the moment they cross the border because THEY HAVE BROKEN THE IMMIGRATION LAWS.... If they are not here legally, then they are engaging in fraud when they portray themselves as legal immigrants. They must engage in fraud and identity theft to establish a "legal" identification. Since they are not legally here, they cannot legally engage in binding contracts like lease agreements or even obtain car insurance unless they have first committed fraud to obtain false documentation. And yes, employing them is illegal, and I really wish the government would crack down on the people hiring them. It is a law that needs to be more proactively enforced. As for rights and privileges that criminal immigrants receive.... Perhaps you should look at the education programs, food programs, welfare programs, and job programs that exist solely for the benefit of criminal immigrants. While many are privately funded, there are government programs that have given criminal immigrants special privilege by choosing to not acknowledge their criminal status. They simply look the other way. By doing that, the government resources intended to help citizens and legal immigrants are denied to the very people they are intended to help. When government agencies choose to ignore the existing laws they are accessories after the fact. So, when Barry-O tells the DOJ not to prosecute criminals, he is not only an accessory after the fact, but so is the DOJ if they choose to comply. They will, and since they will, the federal government is extending a special "above the law" status to people who made a conscious effort to break the law in order to enter the country. -SD-

outhere69 -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/15/2012 6:53:24 PM)
Jesus, thompson, I wish you would use the quote system, ffs. Using italics makes further quoting of you a huge pain in the ass. As for dumbing down, ever heard of "intelligent design", "creation theory", and "teaching the controversy" (even if there isn't one)? How about no reproductive physiology in schools unless the parents cough up a permission slip (and they are the least likely to actually educate their kids about sex/birth control) because of course their kids will be virgins until marriage. For other great examples you need look no farther than Texas' textbook wars. Because so many other states order the same books as TX (makes 'em cheaper), their nuttiness goes far and wide.

thompsonx -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/18/2012 8:20:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: outhere69 Jesus, thompson, I wish you would use the quote system, ffs. Using italics makes further quoting of you a huge pain in the ass. That is just part of my job description. quote: As for dumbing down, ever heard of "intelligent design", "creation theory", and "teaching the controversy" (even if there isn't one)? Somehow this is not what I believe people mean when they use the phrase "dumbing down of america" quote: How about no reproductive physiology in schools unless the parents cough up a permission slip (and they are the least likely to actually educate their kids about sex/birth control) because of course their kids will be virgins until marriage. I have never heard of such a thing? Is it federal or state? Do you have a cite? quote: For other great examples you need look no farther than Texas' textbook wars. Because so many other states order the same books as TX (makes 'em cheaper), their nuttiness goes far and wide. If this is what you mean by "dumbing down" I would have to agree but as I mentioned earlier I do not believe that was the intended meaning.

thompsonx -> RE: This isn't what they said would happen (6/18/2012 9:26:18 AM)
quote: Some people would argue that the dumbing down of America began with the Dept. of Education. Perhaps those "some people" don't know that the department of education was started in 1867. By this you seem to be saying that the government has no business in education. That all education should be private enterprise. quote: Personally, I would contribute it to the formation of teachers unions. Is it just teachers that should not have a union or are you against all unions? quote: In fairness, I don't think anyone could point to a specific moment in time for it. You have no clue when it happened but you know it happened. Can you be specific if not to the when at least the how and the what? quote: You might want to take a look at the figures on America's ranking in education. As of 2010 the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Developement ranked us #14 in the world for basic education. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that any of the countries that ranked above the U.S. offer college degrees in superheros... What qualifies you to determine what constitutes an appropriate college degree. There are degree programs in music appreciation,art theory and comparative religion...do you want tose abandoned also? quote: I think there is definitely cause for concern though when countries like Poland, South Korea, and New Zealand outrank America in reading, math , and science though. Why? quote: You might do well to learn the difference between state and country. Someone can sell dildos in Missouri or Kansas. In fact, I dare say that the majority of states allow it. However, there is no federal ban of dildos. Your statement was: quote: The American markets and industries are the most diverse in the world. If it can be used, it can be built. If it can be built, it can be used. Not so in other parts of the world... It would appear that "not so in other parts of the world" also applies to some parts of the u.s. quote: While there are certainly some industries that we regulate heavily (or sometimes out of existance) you seem to be trying to argue that since some industries are deemed illegal, that there are no opportunities. For instance, peanut farming IS legal commercially, but it is very heavily regulated because growing large quantities of peanuts damages the soil. That is not what I said. What I said is that there are some industries that you and the rest of the "non licensed" are not allowed to participate in. quote: America is the #4 grower of commercial tobacco so it is clearly possible and legal to grow it commercially IF someone is willing to meet the onerous resrictions placed on the industry. What you mean here is that if you acquire a permit for a government monopoly you can engage in that enterprise. quote: In all honesty, I have no clue what you're trying to get at with the crayfish question. They are raised commercially in America for human consumption, bait, and there are even a few species that are sold for fish tanks which qualify as pets rather than livestock. Perhaps you should look into what sort of permits are required to enter that enterprise. I quote: am still trying to wrap my brain around the utter ignorance of the rest of your post. Entering the country without a visa is against the law. misdomeanor quote: Bypassing the border checkpots to enter a country is illegal in virtually every country in the world. So, upon entering America without documentation or by trekking through the wilderness to avoid the border checkpoints, they are criminals the moment they cross the border because THEY HAVE BROKEN THE IMMIGRATION LAWS.... misdomeanor quote: If they are not here legally, then they are engaging in fraud when they portray themselves as legal immigrants. If they do not portray themselves as anything but labor then what fraud have they committed? quote: They must engage in fraud and identity theft to establish a "legal" identification. Since they are not legally here, they cannot legally engage in binding contracts like lease agreements or even obtain car insurance unless they have first committed fraud to obtain false documentation. Please cite the federal or state law that says non citizens cannot enter into a binding contract in the u.s. quote: And yes, employing them is illegal, and I really wish the government would crack down on the people hiring them. It is a law that needs to be more proactively enforced. Yes that one is a felony and not a misdomeanor. Do you realize how disingenuous you look when you posture about arresting and deporting those who commit misdomeanors but are not outraged when multiple felonies are commited...instead of outrage you "really wish the government would crack down" quote: As for rights and privileges that criminal immigrants receive.... Perhaps you should look at the education programs, You do realize that education comes in the main from property taxes. Unless you live under a bridge or in an appliance box you pay property tax. So their pressence in school is just getting what they pay for. quote: food programs, welfare programs, and job programs that exist solely for the benefit of criminal immigrants. ] Do you refer to all who commit misdomeanors as criminals or just the brown ones? quote: While many are privately funded, Does not a private citizen have the right to donate his/her money as they choose without you putting your nose into it? quote: there are government programs that have given criminal immigrants special privilege by choosing to not acknowledge their criminal status. They simply look the other way. By doing that, the government resources intended to help citizens and legal immigrants are denied to the very people they are intended to help. When government agencies choose to ignore the existing laws they are accessories after the fact. Are you refering to the government agencies who ignore the felony that the employer commits or the misdomeanor that the employee commits? quote: So, when Barry-O tells the DOJ not to prosecute criminals, he is not only an accessory after the fact, but so is the DOJ if they choose to comply. They will, and since they will, the federal government is extending a special "above the law" status to people who made a conscious effort to break the law in order to enter the country. -SD- And so also the felons who employ those who commit misdomeanors. So is your hatred for "barry o and the doj for their refusing to enforce the law against the felony or the failure to enforce the law against the misdomeanor?

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