RE: Obama philosophy (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/29/2012 2:28:44 PM)

granting amnesty to illegals by exec order, etc...)
ARIZONA ET AL. v. UNITED STATES
(*NB parts of the decision. This is HELD (not obiter dicta, and not out of context cuz it gets much worse for the teabaggers and neo-cons who without knowledge of law tutor us on what is 'the law of the land', 'the rule of law'; or so they think) ... so pay attention to the bold parts, it is caselaw and precedent in accordance with the rule of law, the laws of our land, and our constitutional framework (note that this is your GOP laden Supreme Court)).

Held:
1. The Federal Government’s broad, undoubted power over immigration and alien status rests, in part, on its constitutional power to“establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” Art. I, §8, cl. 4, and onits inherent sovereign power to control and conduct foreign relations, see Toll v. Moreno, 458 U. S. 1, 10. Federal governance is extensive and complex. Among other things, federal law specifies categories of aliens who are ineligible to be admitted to the United States, 8 U. S. C. §1182; requires aliens to register with the Federal Government and to carry proof of status, §§1304(e), 1306(a); imposes sanctions on employers who hire unauthorized workers, §1324a; and specifies which aliens may be removed and the procedures for doing so, see §1227. Removal is a civil matter, and one of its principal features is the broad discretion exercised by immigration officials, who must decide whether to pursue removal at all. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), an agency within the Department of Homeland Security, is responsible for identifying, apprehending, and removing illegal aliens. It also operates the Law Enforcement Support Center,which provides immigration status information to federal, state, and local officials around the clock.
...
(b)
Section 5(C)’s criminal penalty stands as an obstacle to the federal regulatory system. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), a comprehensive framework for “combating the employment of illegal aliens,” Hoffman Plastic Compounds, Inc. v. NLRB, 535 U. S. 137, 147, makes it illegal for employers to knowingly hire, recruit, refer, or continue to employ unauthorized workers, 8 U.S. C. §§1324a(a)(1)(A), (a)(2), and requires employers to verify prospective employees’ employment authorization status,Cite as: 567 U. S. ____ (2012) 3Syllabus §§1324a(a)(1)(B), (b). It imposes criminal and civil penalties on employers, §§1324a(e)(4), (f), but only civil penalties on aliens who seek, or engage in, unauthorized employment, e.g., §§1255(c)(2), (c)(8).







So I expect all craven corporate capitulists to jump in with both feet and insure your congressmen, senators, presidents and various and sundry federal folks are out there every day and in a big way, standing on the necks of these unamerican, criminal, country destroying corporations that hire these people, fining the shit out of them and jailing them, lets make America a nation of laws again, a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. 
 
We forgive you, if you repent.

OR STFU you commie country destroying bastards. 






Hillwilliam -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/30/2012 5:43:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Hello, Ddstarr. Welcome to the basement. We can always use a broader range of conservative posters to balance things out around here.

Just a thought, though. Chill the fuck out. Go for the throat of the ideas, as you will, but namecalling on other posters won't work out well for you.

Clicky the linky, and then have a ball. Watch yourself. There are libbies to play with in here that will peel you like a grape.

http://www.collarchat.com/tos.asp


Hell, there's conservatives that'll peel him like a grape with that attitude that "If you disagree with me, you're a Libtard"




Lucylastic -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/30/2012 6:09:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Hello, Ddstarr. Welcome to the basement. We can always use a broader range of conservative posters to balance things out around here.

Just a thought, though. Chill the fuck out. Go for the throat of the ideas, as you will, but namecalling on other posters won't work out well for you.

Clicky the linky, and then have a ball. Watch yourself. There are libbies to play with in here that will peel you like a grape.

http://www.collarchat.com/tos.asp


Hell, there's conservatives that'll peel him like a grape with that attitude that "If you disagree with me, you're a Libtard"


nah, not on P&R, never happen...that goes to both of you:) [;)]




seeks2beused -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/30/2012 6:29:42 AM)


I don't care for Obama's policies, but for the most part he seems to mostly an idealist that believes that the government is the solution to all the problems. I think the term I heard that best fits this is statist.

For everyone that likes to go off on how this or that previous President did something wrong when a criticism of President Obama comes up, well, I don't know about you but i was always taught that two wrongs don't make a right.





tazzygirl -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/30/2012 6:41:31 AM)

quote:

For everyone that likes to go off on how this or that previous President did something wrong when a criticism of President Obama comes up, well, I don't know about you but i was always taught that two wrongs don't make a right.


It doesnt... except in some cases it does.

Beyond that, I have criticized Obama many times, and I voted for him. I have criticized Bush, and I voted for him. I have criticized Reagan, and I voted for him. If Bush, Reagan and Obama did something the same, I am going to point it out.

What we have on these boards are people who will demonize Obama simply because he is democrat/isnt republican/not their choice... ect ect ect.

Attack the policies.. and use facts.... not numbers drawn up out of thin air.. not some talking point you heard on TV/radio last night.




Owner59 -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/30/2012 6:48:54 AM)

You can save your breath/key punches.


We`ve all heard the boiler-plate con-offerings, 80 times over already......


FWI......no thinks that cons are the party of small-government,low-tax,pro-security,pro-freedom,anti-crime,pro-growth anymore......if they ever did.


Those spiels are for you guys to feel better about yourselves and have little connection with reality.




Moonhead -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/30/2012 12:37:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: seeks2beused
I don't know about you but i was always taught that two wrongs don't make a right.

Not actually the argument at stake here, or even close to it: more that it's rather hard for you people claim the moral high ground over somebody on the other team doing the same shit that your own team spent eight years doing.




Fellow -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/30/2012 8:08:46 PM)

quote:

Obama demonizes the most productive citizens and encourages more and more people to be government dependent. He has no respect for the constitution (use of czars to get around senate, granting amnesty to illegals by exec order, etc...) or the rule of law. He gave GM to his union thug buddies and screwed the bond holders. He gave $500mm of OUR money to his friends at Solyndra.
What they never understand is................. eventually you run out of Other Peoples Money!!!


Obama is a classical fascist. I do not like the term though, as it associates with mass repressions and human rights violations. In economics terms it means fusing corporate and state power together. Sort of extreme left wing policy. This is exactly what Obama is doing. There is also significant effort put into building legal framework  and security apparatus behind it (centralizing power, NDAA, "Patriot Act", domestic surveillance of every resident and so on...). 500 mil is a pocket change, Obama has passed at least 7 trillion or so to mega-corporations (assuming the Federal Reserve is part of the government).




Musicmystery -> RE: Obama philosophy (6/30/2012 8:14:49 PM)

quote:

Obama is a classical fascist. I do not like the term though, as it associates with mass repressions and human rights violations. In economics terms it means fusing corporate and state power together. Sort of extreme left wing policy. This is exactly what Obama is doing.


It only means that if you make up your own definitions.

fas·cism
   [fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.




joether -> RE: Obama philosophy (7/1/2012 12:29:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
quote:

Obama demonizes the most productive citizens and encourages more and more people to be government dependent. He has no respect for the constitution (use of czars to get around senate, granting amnesty to illegals by exec order, etc...) or the rule of law. He gave GM to his union thug buddies and screwed the bond holders. He gave $500mm of OUR money to his friends at Solyndra.
What they never understand is................. eventually you run out of Other Peoples Money!!!


Obama is a classical fascist. I do not like the term though, as it associates with mass repressions and human rights violations. In economics terms it means fusing corporate and state power together. Sort of extreme left wing policy. This is exactly what Obama is doing. There is also significant effort put into building legal framework  and security apparatus behind it (centralizing power, NDAA, "Patriot Act", domestic surveillance of every resident and so on...). 500 mil is a pocket change, Obama has passed at least 7 trillion or so to mega-corporations (assuming the Federal Reserve is part of the government).


Could you give us a couple of sound examples of President Obama "...fusing corporate and state power together."? The "Patriot Act" I seem to recall was put into law by a Republican Congress and signed into law by a Republican President. And all those Republican Representatives, Senators and President, were put in to their respected places by many conservatives (and some moderates). So if your going to blame the Patriot Act, shouldnt you be blaming yourself.....first?

Could you give us some credible information on this secret $7 Trillion the Obama Administration has passed to "...mega-corporations..."? What is a "...mega-corporation..." defined as?

Oh, by the way, President Obama is not a facist, classical, neo, or even FINO. He's a Democrat. Nothing more nothing less.




erieangel -> RE: Obama philosophy (7/1/2012 12:40:50 AM)

Mussolini once said that fascism could better be defined as corporatism because the corporation have power over the government, or governmental power, whichever way you want to put it.





Fellow -> RE: Obama philosophy (7/1/2012 6:54:52 AM)

quote:

Could you give us a couple of sound examples of President Obama "...fusing corporate and state power together."? The "Patriot Act" I seem to recall was put into law by a Republican Congress and signed into law by a Republican President. And all those Republican Representatives, Senators and President, were put in to their respected places by many conservatives (and some moderates). So if your going to blame the Patriot Act, shouldnt you be blaming yourself.....first?

Could you give us some credible information on this secret $7 Trillion the Obama Administration has passed to "...mega-corporations..."? What is a "...mega-corporation..." defined as?

Oh, by the way, President Obama is not a facist, classical, neo, or even FINO. He's a Democrat. Nothing more nothing less.


I am not going into details. Who does not want to see the "progress" stay in wonderland.  Just a citation from  Ron Paul:“We’re not moving toward Hitler-type fascism, but we’re moving toward a softer fascism: Loss of civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big business. So you have the military-industrial complex, you have the medical-industrial complex, you have the financial industry, you have the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of millions of dollars. That’s where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism — something that’s very dangerous.”

It is true, the policies moving towards corporate fascist national security state are bi-partisan. Obama signed the extension of the Patriot Act. Was he for "Change" or what? Think just of Obama darlings, the bankers running fraud and getting the bailouts. Obama went even so far claiming that the bankers did nothing illegal (60 Minutes interview).  The government bailout information and examples can be easily found even from the mainstream media. Here are 3 trillion worth of examples:  http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/  .  Lot of money is passed to corporations in secret (near 0 interest, de facto negative interest, government backed loans), you rarely hear about it. According to a team at Bloomberg News, at one point last year the U.S. had lent, spent or guaranteed as much as $12.8 trillion to rescue the economy ( PBS: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/economy/the-true-cost-of-the-bank-bailout/3309/ ).
I know, these are the government "investments". We will get it all back eventually (wink, wink).
What kind of Democrat Obama is? Democratic Party has serious problems. It has been destroyed, transformed into a scam. Poor, ignorant underclass hopes to get something out of it, but instead it is lied to over and over again.






Musicmystery -> RE: Obama philosophy (7/1/2012 7:12:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Mussolini once said that fascism could better be defined as corporatism because the corporation have power over the government, or governmental power, whichever way you want to put it.



Mussolini doesn't get to write the dictionaries either.




thishereboi -> RE: Obama philosophy (7/1/2012 9:37:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Hello, Ddstarr. Welcome to the basement. We can always use a broader range of conservative posters to balance things out around here.

Just a thought, though. Chill the fuck out. Go for the throat of the ideas, as you will, but namecalling on other posters won't work out well for you.

Clicky the linky, and then have a ball. Watch yourself. There are libbies to play with in here that will peel you like a grape.

http://www.collarchat.com/tos.asp


Hell, there's conservatives that'll peel him like a grape with that attitude that "If you disagree with me, you're a Libtard"




Some people do seem to beg for it, that's for sure.




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