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Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/1/2012 10:51:48 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		Here we go, Stockton CA is now the largest city in
the United States to go bankrupt.

Stockton could be a role model for many of the other/struggling
cities.
In the past 2 years, Stockton has layed off 20% of the police force at a time when crime, is reaching crisis levels.

Note to self, Do not move to Stockton CA any time soon.


Stockton CA filed Chapter 9 bankruptcy on June 28.
Unemployment rate in Stockton CA is about 18%.
Is this what our country is coming to?
The Bleeding Edge of a scary economic trend

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/1/2012 11:08:58 PM >

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As always, To EACH their Own.
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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 4:41:07 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		This is just the tip of the iceburg. Unlike the federal government, cities and states are not able to just print more money as they need it. This is the reason Scott Walker was elected governor ( twice ) in Wisconsin. We are solving the problems here without massive layoffs and without raising taxes.

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 4:52:54 AM   
YSG


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Joined: 8/6/2010
Status: offline 		No, you're just taking away workers rights, which is a typical right wing scam, blame labor. In truth, pension costs represent less than 2% of the state budget. Maybe its time to actually raise taxes on the wealthy there, instead of blaming state workers.

< Message edited by YSG -- 7/2/2012 4:53:21 AM >

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 4:57:01 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Illinois will be the next state in the news. They untold billions in unfunded pension liabilities. They just raised taxes for some 67 % and nothing changed. Big trouble ahead for our neighbor to the south.

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 9:41:38 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG

No, you're just taking away workers rights, which is a typical right wing scam, blame labor. In truth, pension costs represent less than 2% of the state budget. Maybe its time to actually raise taxes on the wealthy there, instead of blaming state workers.



My source says your full of shit.

Percentage of Wisconsin's GDP 4.2%, actual revenue 65.3%


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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 10:04:06 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		He is hardly full of shit, it is budgeted one way, and because teabaggers and neo cons are innumerate, they budget beyond the GDP and about twice their revenue.

but apples, pineapples, and pinecone comparisons. 

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 11:52:56 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

He is hardly full of shit, it is budgeted one way, and because teabaggers and neo cons are innumerate, they budget beyond the GDP and about twice their revenue.

but apples, pineapples, and pinecone comparisons. 


The proof is in the pudding, puddin... You guys throw out numbers like they're facts. I took the time and researched the numbers, and the FACT is Wisconsin pays 4.2 percent of it's GDP on public worker benefits, and the revenue spent on these benefits is 63% of the state budget.

It's YSG making the claim that Stockton's bankruptcy is all about robbing public sector union workers of their rights. He's the one using erroneous numbers from Wisconsin to try to make his point.

Stockton filed for bankruptcy because of liberal state laws, and government oversight, it has little to do with the "rights" of it's public sector employees, and they're protected from bankruptcy laws. Thanks to Calpers, pensions are bullet proof, even if reforms would save a city from bankruptcy.

So it looks like the face (public sector unions in California) is cutting off the nose (public sector jobs in Stockton) in spite of the damage it does to the overall health of the state.

Or in terms even a pawn broker can understand, the city will be forced to fire current employees to pay the benefits of retired employees, because California has raised taxes and the cost of living so fucking high, it's no longer attractive to start a business or buy a house there.

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 12:06:29 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I aint proving shit, that is what he said, you did not disprove it.

It is there in black and white.

While you are on this topic, please provide us with credible citations regarding the employee pension plan vis a vis, the treasonous Ws dumping of the market and lack of oversight by the republicans, and Madoff, and the effect of this malfeasance today.

As well as the borrow and spend republican governments have been making fingerpuppets on the wall with, (see around number three in your citation). 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/2/2012 12:20:35 PM >

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 2:11:51 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I aint proving shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
But it demonstrates the typical unfactual lies of the goons and thugs of the right, alsways unable to discuss these things rationally, unable to provide credible citations, just tonguing rush in lockstep... tazzy did not present those to me.

Bwahahahahahaha Your killing me Pawn Star.

The topic is Stockton Ca... Stick to it Chum.

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 2:28:33 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hey, doughnut hole, again, stockton california, prove that some asswipe you post from moodys about your little nazi heaven is about stockton ca.

Nazi land cheesehead country does not constitute a proof of anything of california, and even less of stockton.

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 3:11:13 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
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Status: offline 		Cheesehead country will prove one thing. The right way to solve a budget problem is happening now in WI. The wrong way to solve these problems is happening in CA and IL. Lets see who is better off a year from now, or who is bankrupt

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 8:21:07 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Cheesehead country will prove one thing. The right way to solve a budget problem is happening now in WI. The wrong way to solve these problems is happening in CA and IL. Lets see who is better off a year from now, or who is bankrupt


A good question is, what are the "implications" or consequences that will happen to Stockton, CA, and any other cities that declare bankruptcy?
Is it possible, that eventually these cities might be able to walk away from
some of the debt and be better off?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 8:26:58 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		That is exactly what will happen. One problem though. They still won't have the funds to pay the retired people what they thought they had worked for. Pensions bargained for many years ago are unstainable.

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 8:32:34 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

A good question is, what are the "implications" or consequences that will happen to Stockton, CA, and any other cities that declare bankruptcy?
Is it possible, that eventually these cities might be able to walk away from
some of the debt and be better off?


Unfortunately one of the main reasons for their debt cannot be walked away from. California has a law that protects pensions from bankruptcy, so the city can file for bankruptcy protection, but still have the pensions on the books.

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 8:36:23 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		I think that federal law also protects those pensions as well.

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 8:36:41 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

Unfortunately one of the main reasons for their debt cannot be walked away from. California has a law that protects pensions from bankruptcy, so the city can file for bankruptcy protection, but still have the pensions on the books.


Well of COURSE they should have to PAY the pensions!

Why is pensions even something to be discussed?
Are you telling me this country is so damn bad off we would not
pay people their pensions?

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/2/2012 8:37:36 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 8:40:52 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		The numbers from Illinois are worse than CA.Illinois has a budget deficit of 43.8 billion dollars, worst in the nation. They also have an unfunded pension liability of 85 billion dollars, also worst in the nation. ( Obama's adopted home state I might add )...

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 9:18:18 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

Unfortunately one of the main reasons for their debt cannot be walked away from. California has a law that protects pensions from bankruptcy, so the city can file for bankruptcy protection, but still have the pensions on the books.


Well of COURSE they should have to PAY the pensions!

Why is pensions even something to be discussed?
Are you telling me this country is so damn bad off we would not
pay people their pensions?


No, the people who retired should be paid the money they agreed to work for for 40+ years, but the current workers need a different plan. Cities and states simply gave public sector unions too much power to negotiate pension plans. With people living longer, the current retiree's aren't dying off fast enough and cities are getting hit by two or three times as many pensions as they planned... And as we can see, these funds aren't always funded properly... Illinois is the prime example of pension malfeasance.

If a pension fund is properly funded, this isn't a problem, but politicians will be politicians, and take funds from whatever source is available to them, including public sector pension funds.

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RE: Stockton CA largest city to go bankrupt - 7/2/2012 9:35:40 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		You aren't going to be able to "fix" or put a dent into America's financial crisis on the backs of middle class and lower middle class workers.

rob? are you up in arms about all the well paying millions of jobs that have been outsourced over the past 20-30 years?

Why are people trying to bring down the public/government workers that are trying to eek out a living?

Should teachers, policemen, paramedics, and firemen work for free? Is this country so hard up that we want teachers, policemen, paramedics and firemen to NOT be able to earn a decent living?

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/2/2012 9:40:26 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 19
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