Education in the US (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> Education in the US (7/2/2012 6:32:44 PM)

quote:

Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math.


That was in 2009, I cant find any newer rankings, but that is pathetic.

Now if it is up to the conservatives and republicans, we would disband the US department of Education and let the states handle the cost of educating our children. These are the same people who are proposing closing schools and laying off teachers to save money.

Here in Texas, the Republican controlled Government has had history books re written history to be more politically correct.

What do you people think we need to do to raise the education level in the US.




thishereboi -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 6:35:05 PM)

I don't know which is more pathetic. The numbers in the article or your attempt to blame it all on the right.[8|]




servantforuse -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 6:53:56 PM)

The Milwaukee school district spends $14,011 per student per year. The graduation rate is an appalling 46 %, one of 17 urban districts that come in below 50 %. Throwing more and more money in a pit is not the answer.




Lucylastic -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:00:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I don't know which is more pathetic. The numbers in the article or your attempt to blame it all on the right.[8|]

'Wake-up call': U.S. students trail global leaders - US news - Life ...
www.msnbc.msn.com/.../us.../wake-up-call-us-students-t... - United States
7 Dec 2010 – Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math. Those scores are all higher than those from 2003 and ...
In ranking, U.S. students trail global leaders
- USATODAY.com
www.usatoday.com/.../2010-12-07-us-students-international-ranking...
7 Dec 2010 – Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math. Those scores are all higher than those from 2003 and ...
We need year-round school to compete globally
- CNN
articles.cnn.com/.../granderson.yearround.school_1_year-round-scho...
10 May 2011 – American 15-year-olds ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math in a study of students in 34 nations and nonnational regions.
Articles about Math And Science - CNN - Featured Articles from CNN

articles.cnn.com/keyword/math-and-science
In math, U.S. high schoolers were in the bottom quarter of the countries that ... American 15-year-olds ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math in a ... But out of 34 industrialized countries, American students rank 17th in science ...
If America Spends More Than Most Countries Per Student, Then ...

articles.businessinsider.com/.../30587761_1_oecd-countries...
by Michael Brendan Dougherty - in 291 Google+ circles
7 Jan 2012 – Comparatively speaking, the United States does not starve its education. ... which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.

U.S. Teens Lag as China Soars on International Test - Bloomberg
www.bloomberg.com/.../teens-in-u-s-rank-25th-on-math-test-trail-in-...
7 Dec 2010 – Fifteen-year-olds in the U.S. ranked 25th among peers from 34 countries on a math test and scored in the middle in science and reading, while China's ... The average U.S. reading score of 500 ranked 14th among OECD ... The average U.S. science score of 502 ranks 17th in the OECD nations, which were ...

US ranked 25th out of 34 in International Math Test « BLOG
gideonlearning.wordpress.com/.../us-ranked-25th-out-of-34-in-intern...
7 Dec 2010 – Fifteen-year-old students in the U.S. ranked 25th of 34 countries on an international ... U.S. students ranked 17th in science and 14th in reading.
Education –
Can't Ever Get Enough Science and Math | Citizen ...
citizenscientistsleague.com/.../education-–-can’t-ever-get-enough-scie...
24 May 2012 – ... in reading and science, and below average in math. Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math ...

page one of google search shows up these articles.
so your first guess was misplaced




Anaxagoras -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:16:02 PM)

Jif, I've heard mixed things about the US education system too but this year the OECD stated it was the 4th most educated country http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/the-10-most-educated-countries-in-the-world.html in the world, albeit your Northern friends did somewhat better.




JstAnotherSub -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:21:21 PM)

This is my opinion only, as an employee of a school district.

Parents. Parenting is a lost art in many places. You can not take a child who has never been taught anything in the first five years of their life, and expect them to catch up. There are kids who start school and can not count to 10, and do not even know colors and shapes. Stuff that could be learned by plopping them down in front of Sesame Street, even if you do not want to spend time with them your self.

Add to that all the parents that believe their child can do no wrong, and will come to raise holy hell about any small thing they get a call about, more young single parents who have not a clue, because they also come from a single parent who did not have a clue, and we are fucked.




Sanity -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:27:51 PM)


Assuming your numbers can be trusted, which they cant... The United States is very diverse with unique educational challenges, from (for example) inner city chaos in the classrooms to illegals flooding schools in Texas, Arizona, California... and many other states. Looking at the bigger picture its surprising that our kids as a whole are at such a high level.

How many illegal Guatemalan children struggle with English in England for example

And how is any of this my fault




vincentML -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:29:11 PM)

I have a problem with the oft cited rankings, although I agree there is room for improvement in our education. The rankings compare and rank nations that have homogeneous curricula nationwide with the United States which has a heterogeneous curricula diverse across fifty States and controlled by local school boards. So, to my mind the comparison is bogus apples to oranges.

But that does not excuse our poor achievement in math, science, and reading/writing. We are not producing the engineers and scientific/math literate people needed for the new post industrial economy. One of the obstacles is the religious culture that denigrates science for fear of its repudiation of special creation. Additonally, there has been an historic devaluation of education in the agricultural South. Just mho.




vincentML -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:31:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Assuming your numbers can be trusted, which they cant... The United States is very diverse with unique educational challenges, from (for example) inner city chaos in the classrooms to illegals flooding schools in Texas, Arizona, California... and many other states. Looking at the bigger picture its surprising that our kids as a whole are at such a high level.

How many illegal Guatemalan children struggle with English in England for example

And how is any of this my fault


England, France, and Italy have similar problems with inability to assimilate emigrants.




servantforuse -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:33:26 PM)

Spot on Jst.. jlf1961 wants to blame republicans and money or lack there of for under performing schools. The problem schools in this country are in the urban areas and inner cities. Money spent is not the problem. Children being raised by single moms who also never finished school is the problem. I know first hand as I worked in Milwaukee's inner city for 18 years. They just don't want to go to school and the moms couldn't care less. Dads for the most part, not in the picture.




Sanity -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:35:13 PM)


If theres any particular ideology to blame, most schools are in very left leaning districts. And the NEA definitely left leaning

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Spot on Jst.. jlf1961 wants to blame republicans and money or lack there of for under performing schools. The problem schools in this country are in the urban areas and inner cities. Money spent is not the problem. Children being raised by single moms who also never finished school is the problem. I know first hand as I worked in Milwaukee's inner city for 18 years. They just don't want to go to school and the moms couldn't care less. Dads for the most part, not in the picture.





Hillwilliam -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:38:15 PM)

Ex teacher here. One of the problems is that the flow of authority is bass ackwards. Those downtown have no clue what the principals and some principals have no idea what the teachers do because they abrogate all the authority to the AP (Asst Princ) as they "Social Climb" to try to get one of the high paying ($100K+) jobs as a paper pusher "Downtown". There's way too damn many chiefs for the # of indians.

Reverse that trend.

I quit teaching because someone offered me a 50% pay raise to work in their lab.




vincentML -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:39:12 PM)

quote:

If theres any particular ideology to blame, most schools are in very left leaning districts. And the NEA definitely left leaning


I bet if you look closely most poorly performing schools are in Red states.




Lucylastic -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:39:27 PM)

please provide proof of your assertions that most schools are in left leaning districts?




Sanity -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:41:27 PM)



Such as Arizona and Texas?

Bet you there are some awfully piss poor districts in California...

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If theres any particular ideology to blame, most schools are in very left leaning districts. And the NEA definitely left leaning


I bet if you look closely most poorly performing schools are in Red states.





Sanity -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:42:40 PM)


Ever notice that the bigger the cities, the further left they lean

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

please provide proof of your assertions that most schools are in left leaning districts?





servantforuse -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:45:40 PM)

That is one big reason the cost per pupil is so high. They might cut a music class or lay off a teachers aide, but the top heavy administration always stays in place.




Owner59 -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:47:52 PM)

And you can prove that piece of bull-shit?







servantforuse -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 7:53:45 PM)

I'm thinking that a large majority of large cities in this country are run by mayors that are democrats. Doesn't matter if it is a red or blue state.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Education in the US (7/2/2012 8:01:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math.


That was in 2009, I cant find any newer rankings, but that is pathetic.

Now if it is up to the conservatives and republicans, we would disband the US department of Education and let the states handle the cost of educating our children. These are the same people who are proposing closing schools and laying off teachers to save money.

Here in Texas, the Republican controlled Government has had history books re written history to be more politically correct.

What do you people think we need to do to raise the education level in the US.


Let's see. Considering the teachers I hear complain in my area being grossly underpaid (with a median salary of 78K by the way), so many refusing to devote any extra time to helping students who need extra help, failing to communicate with parents, basing who keeps their job on tenure rather than merit, not actually teaching basics, but teaching how to pass proficiency tests, in an effort not to "stifle" creativity, making spelling and grammar secondary, worrying about offending someone with the pledge of allegience, a child wearing any religious symbol, etc. and that covers a lot of the problem in the school system.

On the parental side, teachers expect parents to pick up the slack at home, and many parents just don't have the ability to do that. Not because they don't care, not because they are a "young single parent" without a clue, but because the parents may not literally have enough knowledge to be able to help, nor the funds for a private tutor. It doesn't help that parents think their children are little angels who can do no wrong, but it also doesn't help when teachers send home printed material written by the teacher with spelling and grammar errors as well.

Schools now are run more like jails than a place to learn in many places. Sure, some inner city schools need to be somewhat of a police state, but when jaded teachers don't care if their students learn or not, and are unwilling to invest the time or work with the parents to help the child, problems will ensue.

My son has a learning disability. I am NOT a teacher, but the superindendent of our school system once offered me a job teaching the special ed class because I was able to tell him what worked for teaching 90% of the kids in my son's class. Because I spoke with them, knew what their problems were and worked on figuring out ways to help them learn. It is difficult as hell to teach my son, but I have found ways to do it, and even then it is frustrating as hell because I'm NOT a teacher. I busted my ass with his school to find ways that work with him when it comes to learning, but he had friends who took no interest. So much so, that when open house and parent/teacher conferences came, many of his teachers asked for my help in getting through to his friends.

I have met maybe two teachers in my son's entrie academic career that belonged in a classroom. And one was in Florida where even with a Master's Degree, he wouldn't max out salary wise at 50K a year. That man gave up his lunch everyday to help any student who wanted help. He willingly stayed after school to do the same. My son learned more that year than any other year in school and even won an award for his improvements, given to only one student in the entire district.

Teachers complaining about how they hard they work means nothing to me. They knew what they were getting into when they chose the career.

So how does it improve? Take a step back to when so many of us went to school. We learned. Not simply academics, but respect for authority because our parents would kick our ass if we mouthed off to a teacher.

Don't throw money at the problem and spend all that time working on those "achievement" tests. Teach the kids what they need to know, with some time spent on HOW to take a test. Seems to me, we all learned that way and it worked out.

Oh yea, and stop making votech an option that requires top grades and harder to get into than college. Votech was designed for the kids who weren't destined for college and needed a trade. Now those kids can't get in. And they leave high school without even enough skills to work at McDonald's.




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