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Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 7:32:06 AM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
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Recently a "run-in" with a submissive friend of mine, who identifies as a slave, makes me wonder about this question.

To try to explain, we were having a discussion and i made a joke about build a sub, taking different qualities from different submissives to build a sub. i meant it as a joke and was later rather surprised when what she heard was that i was saying that she wasn't a good submissive. we resolved that issue, but after having the "run-in" i knew this was a sensitive issue to her.

Later that day, her Master made a comment similar to what i had said comparing the two of us. When i later asked her about it, if she was okay, she replied with the statement that as a slave she is not allowed to be offended by his comments. That is not to say that He said that, but rather that that is her belief.

my question is this, as i do not identify as a slave, is such a belief normal for slaves, or is this something that you Masters deal with with your slaves, that they don't feel they have a "right" to be hurt by something that might have been said. Or is that the case, that as a slave one does not have the "right" to be hurt by something that your Master says.

Thank you in advance for any responses to this question.

heartfelt

Post #: 1

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 7:40:35 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
my question is this, as i do not identify as a slave, is such a belief normal for slaves, or is this something that you Masters deal with with your slaves, that they don't feel they have a "right" to be hurt by something that might have been said. Or is that the case, that as a slave one does not have the "right" to be hurt by something that your Master says.

It's not normal, but it's not unheard of.

Trust me, there are plenty of masters and slaves who will read that story, laugh and roll their eyes and make jokes about it.

And I'm sure there will be some who agree.

It's pretty hard to offend or hurt me with a joking comment no matter what so it's very unlikely this would ever be called into question. But I see no reason why it should somehow not be ok for me to have a particular reaction to something just because of someones PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP ORIENTATION (no, that wasn't a caps lock quirk).

However, perhaps she's confused "having a particular reaction" with "ACTING upon one's particular reaction." Perhaps she can't see how a person can feel offended and yet let it go and not have it be a big deal, and thus equates having a feeling with expressing that feeling. Telling someone to REPRESS a certain reaction, or that a slave shouldn't express a certain behavior is certainly normal. Telling them to not have a particular feeling at all, when it comes to this situation, seems a bit ludicrous.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 2

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 8:02:24 AM

heartfeltsub

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Joined: 11/5/2004
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The funny thing is that this friend has no trouble at all telling me when i have done or said something that offends her, and she would be the first to say that communication is the key to a successful Master/slave relationship, but when it comes to comments that He has said, she doesn't tell Him if she has a negative reaction to them.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 8:14:13 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
The funny thing is that this friend has no trouble at all telling me when i have done or said something that offends her, and she would be the first to say that communication is the key to a successful Master/slave relationship, but when it comes to comments that He has said, she doesn't tell Him if she has a negative reaction to them.

Eh some people like to take their personal relationship orientations and universalize them, so that people should be treated differently just because of their orientation.

Also, there's the wanting to impress the doms and look desireable to them. She doesn't have to care about being desireable to you all, so being "meek and mild" out in public gets her the good attention.

You see it here on the boards as well- female subs can post something very worthwhile, but then a male dom comes on and says exactly the same thing and the other fem subs are all cooing and swooning over what HE said.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 4

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 8:40:48 AM

rose442

Posts: 60
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

I think that most here do not realize ,there is a bigger picture in all this .

We being in the life style ,all have OUR own relationship. Is this right or wrong ? No ,but to ask one or the other for there advice on a relationship ,to me this is wrong . Why? know one is living it but the two people that involved in that relationship.

Just my thoughts .

_____________________________

This slave is Masters, heart, mind, soul, and body. To use as Master wishes, when Master wishes to do so.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 5

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 8:44:53 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442
No ,but to ask one or the other for there advice on a relationship ,to me this is wrong .

Haven't you yourself asked for advice on your relationship on these very boards?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to rose442)

Post #: 6

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 9:06:15 AM

lisa1978

Posts: 224
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Kansas City
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Recently a "run-in" with a submissive friend of mine, who identifies as a slave, makes me wonder about this question.

To try to explain, we were having a discussion and i made a joke about build a sub, taking different qualities from different submissives to build a sub. i meant it as a joke and was later rather surprised when what she heard was that i was saying that she wasn't a good submissive. we resolved that issue, but after having the "run-in" i knew this was a sensitive issue to her.

Later that day, her Master made a comment similar to what i had said comparing the two of us. When i later asked her about it, if she was okay, she replied with the statement that as a slave she is not allowed to be offended by his comments. That is not to say that He said that, but rather that that is her belief.

my question is this, as i do not identify as a slave, is such a belief normal for slaves, or is this something that you Masters deal with with your slaves, that they don't feel they have a "right" to be hurt by something that might have been said. Or is that the case, that as a slave one does not have the "right" to be hurt by something that your Master says.

Thank you in advance for any responses to this question.

heartfelt

Feelings are something you cannot control. What makes you happy, sad, upset and any of the many others cannot be controlled by another person let alone yourself. Now, a person that has an understanding of themselves can understand what they are feeling and how it effects them in their actions and words to other people and this can be used in a D/s way. A sub or slave who recognizes or is pointed out by their dominat behavior based by a particular strong emotion can then control the feelings and hopefully through journaling or other communication be able to eventually deal with it with their dominant.

I for one can be very emotional and to even attempt to try to curb feelings coming on or never to deal with them would be very tough for me to do.

Now as to her being upset by your comments, I have seen that a lot with freinds that are in the lifestyle. Our souls and the deep and personal nature of this lifestyle mixed with the relativity of secretacy of living like this can be sometimes very happy to share ones life with another friend in the lifestyle. Unfortunately, sometimes, we forget that our friend is still just a friend and does not know our core soul and beliefs within the lifestyle. I have seen and been involved of emotions and issues flaming up because of people always assuming we know them so well because we are friends and in the lifestyle that the persons standards on what causes them to react a certain way can be artificially too high.

_____________________________

It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 7

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 10:33:16 AM

pinkee

Posts: 487
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Recently a "run-in" with a submissive friend of mine, who identifies as a slave, makes me wonder about this question.

To try to explain, we were having a discussion and i made a joke about build a sub, taking different qualities from different submissives to build a sub. i meant it as a joke and was later rather surprised when what she heard was that i was saying that she wasn't a good submissive. we resolved that issue, but after having the "run-in" i knew this was a sensitive issue to her.

Later that day, her Master made a comment similar to what i had said comparing the two of us. When i later asked her about it, if she was okay, she replied with the statement that as a slave she is not allowed to be offended by his comments. That is not to say that He said that, but rather that that is her belief.

my question is this, as i do not identify as a slave, is such a belief normal for slaves, or is this something that you Masters deal with with your slaves, that they don't feel they have a "right" to be hurt by something that might have been said. Or is that the case, that as a slave one does not have the "right" to be hurt by something that your Master says.

Thank you in advance for any responses to this question.

heartfelt

i think most P/pl of A/any orientation have difficulty controlling emotions...but can be expected to control thinking and behavior.

pinkee

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 8

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 10:50:59 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I think she is saying it is ok to ask for your own relationship, but not for another person's dynamic. Although the OP was not asking for advice for others, he was asking if this is a usual thing and what others thought about it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 9

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 11:11:38 AM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

Part of my reason for asking this question has to do with the fact that a lot of submissive myself and my friend included have a difficult time "allowing" themselves to have negative emotions or "allowing" themselves to voice those negative emotions, we don't like being a burden, we don't want to "cause trouble".

i am NOT saying that having negative emotions or being hurt by something is causing trouble, but rather that a lot of submissives (myself included at times) see it this way.

But i have also seen the effect of never dealing with those hurt feelings or offenses, especially when we tell ourselves that we "shouldn't" feel or think that way, or that we don't have the "right" to think or feel that way.

And while i maybe should have put this under ask a slave, i was wondering if Masters want those kinds of things discussed and not just squashed by telling ourselves that we don't have the "right" to be offended or hurt if we call ourselves a slave or a submissive.

Edited to add: Because part of my thought process on this is that is Someone owns me, they own all of me, the good emotions, the bad emotions, all of me and to not tell them is keeping part of their property from them. Granted there is a time, place and way to address this, but it seemed to me that is should be addressed so that unspoken and unacknowledged resentments don't build up to hurt the relationship.

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 6/8/2006 11:14:51 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 10

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 11:13:58 AM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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In my M/s relationship, my feelings are completely accepted by him. What he controls and insists that I have self-control of, is the expression of those feelings. I have to express them in a manner that is constructive and acceptable to him and in a time and place of his choosing.

I can also ask for permission to vent. If he allows it, then I can express my feelings and thoughts any way I want. This is not something I ask for very often, but it is cathartic when I am allowed to do it. When I do vent, it is usually about work and he sits there trying not to laugh at me (and usually fails miserably).

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 11

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 11:17:10 AM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
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And does it make any difference whether the words or event that hurt you came from Him or from others? i mean "not having the right" to be hurt by something He might have said or done? Or is that never an issue?

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 12

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 11:18:45 AM

kittensmailbox

Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline

that is how my former Master was... There was a time and a place for everything... Even then there were times He didn't want to hear what i had to say...Needless to say, as the years went by, i learned how easily i was able to suppress my feelings and emotions and "go with the flow"...

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 13

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 11:52:26 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

And does it make any difference whether the words or event that hurt you came from Him or from others? i mean "not having the right" to be hurt by something He might have said or done? Or is that never an issue?

It doesn't make one bit of difference to him whether it was something he did that caused the feelings or something someone else did, the rules are the same. He can be rather blunt and insensitive at times, so there have been many occasions where something he has said or done has caused me hurt or anger. He still accepts my feelings and allows me to express them in a way that is constructive. I have even been given permission to vent about something he did that just really ticked me off.

There have been a few tearful and heated discussions between us and we have used them to help us grow as individuals and as a relationship. We have become closer and more vulnerable to each other because we constructively express how we feel. It does not interfer with the M/s dynamic that is between the two of us either. But this is our relationship and we are finding what works for us. It may not work for others.

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 14

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 12:06:51 PM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
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Thank you kyra so much for answering my question.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 15

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 12:14:07 PM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

Thank you all for your replies.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 16

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/8/2006 5:54:06 PM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Later that day, her Master made a comment similar to what i had said comparing the two of us. When i later asked her about it, if she was okay, she replied with the statement that as a slave she is not allowed to be offended by his comments. That is not to say that He said that, but rather that that is her belief.

heartfelt

I think her statement is the key. It appears that her Master is not imposing that constraint on her, but she is deciding that for herself. If she is not comfortable expressing her feelings, making herself believe that she is not allowed to react would be an easy way to avoid it. I would hope that her master is checking in with her to allow her to discuss her feelings from time to time.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 17

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/9/2006 5:24:45 AM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
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Thank you for your reply, yes He does.

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 18

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/9/2006 4:04:52 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

One thing I don't encourage is double standards because there'll ultimately come the time when the lines of separation are blurred and confusion reigns.

While your friend and everyone else has the right to decide what's "normal" for their relationship, the only slave I'll have is one who is also a normal, functional, sane, mature human-being replete with emotions, flaws, opinions, spirit and generally a mind of her own. I guess I wouldn't quite appreciate a slave who's virtually a mindless, emotionless drone awaiting instruction....

Frankly, I just won't have a slave who has a mentality of "they don't feel they have a "right" to be hurt by something" - it's a nonsense. I'm highly observant in general but especially about my girl's behaviour. If she bottled things up, it'd manifest in other ways and I'd notice. *Anything* affecting her mentally or emotionally will affect her service and I not only wanna know what it is, I expect to be told *before* stress sets in. For her to hold things back from me is a form of betrayal, well-intentioned or not! Nothing is minor or trivial if it affects her or her service, *nothing*! Even if it's something I've done to hurt her, there are always times and means for discussing it, including as equal adults....

Focus.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 19

RE: Getting hurt or offended -- allowed or not allowed? - 6/9/2006 4:39:58 PM

Littlepita

Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline

Well said Focus! That is something I have been hearing from my Dom lately and have had to really give thought to and put into practice. I have a tendency to hold things in and not express them. Especially when it concerns something I feel he has done or not done. You have given me more to think about now.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 20

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