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Padriag -> RE: Newbies who are looking for trainers... ??? (6/9/2006 4:25:01 PM)
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So many points to address. Seems the topic of training always generates a strong reaction in so many. Sometimes I wonder how much the dynamic of such debates would be changed if the word teaching were substituted for training where it appears. They're really the same thing, training is about teaching. Its about imparting knowledge, skills and behaviors... no more and no less. There is always a vocal group who claims not to need any form of training... and the dog metaphor always comes up. So here's a thought... are medical students dogs? How about firemen? Police officers? Soldiers? IT technicians? Electricians? They all go through quite a bit of training to learn their jobs, to learn the skills and knowledge necessary. If those adults needed training, what makes anyone else any better than them?
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ORIGINAL: zumala
Let's say you have someone coming from a 'nilla lifestyle who's only recently discovered they're submissive. They have NO clue what to do. They can't just waltz off and grab a Master because he could turn out to be someone who abuses them. They can't answer questions about what they do or don't like, because they've never experienced anything like what is done in BDSM. So they sit there, wondering how to safely get started... Ah-ha! What if I got a Mentor? Someone to help me figure out what I would and wouldn't like. Someone to help me ease into my local scene?
I think that is exactly what some are doing. But I also think there is something else at work. Being a submissive, and especially a slave, is a big commitment. It can be scary as hell to make. One way I've seen some deal with it is looking for a "mentor" as kind of temporary dominant... a way to get their feet wet without making a long term commitment. Less scary that way.
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ORIGINAL: Quivver
My Point is such that Service is an individual thing, one learns what the other likes and goes out of their way to provide it. But in Training, as Ron said eventually it's gonna come down to sex. Bottom line is why bother finding a trainer to phuck?
Service isn't always an individual thing. I think you're making a couple of false assumptions. First, you're assuming that there are no forms of service that are basic, or that learning basic forms of service (even if they aren't used later) isn't useful in itself. Second, you're assuming it all comes down to sex, and that this is always the case... that everyone in this lifestyle is in it for sex. Both assumptions are wrong.
As has already been pointed out, training will teach, if nothing else, basic obedience. And that is not something that comes naturally to all submissives... for some its a battle. Western culture stresses individuality and personal freedom to the point of it being a fault. It does very little to equip someone mentally or emotionally for a submissive role. And there are a number of general things that can be taught as part of training. I'll cover that further on.
Neither is sex the only goal, or even a goal. For some its all about the whips and chains, and no sex or sexual contact is involved. Don't believe me, visit a few clubs with dungeons or some major events. You'll run into plenty of people who just want someone to flog or to flog them, no sex involved. For others its all about service, they just want someone to serve. It my experience male submissives seem more inclined to this than female submissives, which I've always found to be an interesting phenomenon.
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ORIGINAL: marieToo
But who would do this training? Are there bdsm 'experts' that are any better than the priest who teaches vanillas how to stay married?
There isnt a manual that teaches people how to have better relationships. There might be things that teach us better communication and tools that might *help* in our relationships. But theres no one set of rules, or any training program that is going to guarantee the success of any relationship.
Yes, there are 'experts' in this lifestyle who are capable of providing such training. And unlike the priest in said example, these are people actively involved. There are also manuals and books on the subject. I can think of two that have been published off the top of my head, a third that deals with the topic, and I have also seen several private manuals which belonged to individuals or groups.
Will it guarantee success... of course not, who said it would? What it does do is better equip a slave towards that desired success. That's its function.
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ORIGINAL: sweetnessforsir
I have had a trainer. We still keep in contact. I will be meeting his sub soon for coffee. It was not a romantic relationship, it was a care-taker and teacher relationship.
I have also had a mentor. It was also a teaching relationship.
I would recommend both to a newcomer, particularly one who had made a recent cross country move.
I am not sure how others are defining "Trainer" and "mentor." Perhaps it is different. I see them both as having been guides to getting settled and finding my niche. While there were difficulties in both relationships, I value both of them a great deal. The difficulties arise mostly from my growth, which was the goal.
These relationships were not about sex and conquest, but about learning and friendships. They both had bumps in the path, but both were worth the effort.
I am not sure I understand the disdain for a Trainer or a mentor.
You sound like you had a good mentor and trainer, and present us with a good, real world, example of what it should be. To answer your question regarding the disdain... its simply because so often those claiming to be mentors and trainers are not what you describe. Of those online who make such claims I'd guess that perhaps only 1 in 100 were the genuine article. That's really just a guess to indicate how small I think the percentage is, they are rare.
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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I agree, the concept of training in itself is actually a pretty darned good one. And if novices were keeping their wits about them, seeking actual long term training and discipline, not just a few hot scenes and fucks, and didn't just fall for the guy who got their panties all wet and sounded all wise- I'd be the first one to shove newbies into training.
But that's not how it works.
Somehow this thread went from "Why do clueless newbies plunge themselves into a frenzy of NEEDING training right off when what they want (a personal relationship) they already have the skills for?" into discussing the merits of training in the scene in general.
Not a bad thing, but definitely a swerve from the path.
Training can be a wonderful thing when used for what it was intended, teaching. But it seems like more and more often, especially online, it becomes a euphamism for those hot scenes, short term relationships, exploring, etc.
When it works as it should, its a good thing. Sadly, it often isn't used as it should be.
And yes this thread swerved, but it was a predictable one. Training is one of those hot button issues with a lot of people. The minute it gets mentioned, regardless of the context, the opinions (often uninformed) comes out of the woodwork against it. A few will support it and some will sit there dazed wondering what just happened. Same shit, different day.
Alright, so we want to discuss training and what it should be. Fine, no problem at all. I train. Specifically, I train female slaves to serve primarily male dominants because that's the dynamic I personally have a vested interest in. However, my training methods can and have been applied by myself and others to training female slaves to serve female dominants, male slaves to serve female dominants and even used with one or two Submissives. When I train, such training is divided into two main areas, Generalized Training and Specialized Training. I'll address, and briefly, only Generalized Training here to give an example of what organized training my look like.
Generalized Training is essentially basic training, welcome to slave boot camp. The purpose is to provide basic orientation, information and skills regarding slavery as a style of life.
Training begins with Orientation. The purpose of orientation is to give the trainee an introduction into slavery as a style of life, basic concepts, what to expect and generally what will and may be expected of them. It serves to make clear how this choice will affect their life. It closes with the trainee being asked again if they are certain they want this. They are asked a second time because at this point they are making an informed decision about what they are doing, those who agree are giving informed consent. For me personally, this is an important ethical point.
Orientation is followed by Development of the Slave Identity. This is a short series of lessons regarding what a slave is. While a what a slave is vs a sub may be hotly debated in forums, someone actually seeking to be enslaved can have no such doubt. What a slave is, what they are becoming, must be clear in their minds... they need a clear defintion. Following this is a lesson on Positive Self Image. Slaves may be put into embarassing or humiliating situations, they may be required to do things they were taught are immoral or taboo, they will almost certainly cross such boundaries. Doing so without becoming an emotional and mental basket case means having a strong positive self image and knowing how to maintain it. This lesson focuses on that important point. This is dealt with even further in Good Girls / Boys Do... which specifically deals with the common problem of having been taught "good girls don't" when in order to be a good slave, you must, and learning to reconcile this. It deals very specifically with avoiding feelings of shame (slaves should literally be shameless, that is feeling no shame for the services they perform).
Obedience training includes trust building exercises, the personal rewards of obedience, and putting it into practice. Its one thing to know you should obey, but quite another to have the habit.
Communication lessons are broken down in to teaching common forms of speech restrictions, journaling, self expression and communication skills. Journaling is a useful tool to help a slave explore her feelings in writing as well as helping in reflecting on them later. It helps the slave look at issues more objectively and can also become a form of communication with their owner, who can be shown the journal (written communication with a dominant is often less intimidating for a submissive than verbal communication). Self expression teaches the slave important lessons about saying what she thinks and feels. Often slaves have difficulty saying No, yet there are times they need to be able to do so. Slaves also frequently have trouble asking for what they want or expressing how they feel, yet this is also an area that they need to be able to communicate effectively. Communication skills teaches skills at verbal, written and electronic communication, covering basic etiquette, penmanship, etc. We live in a communication age and this training serves to aid the slave in being more effective and useful in this regard.
Basic Skills covers Protocols and Etiquette, Positions, Serving 101, and Self Care. Protocols and Etiquette teaches common forms of etiquette and protocols used in the lifestyle, whether that be online, at an event, at a high protocol dinner, etc. It will not make the slave an expert, but it does teach her enough to avoid embarassing herself or her owner. Positions teaches some basic and popular positions. The physical aspect of this is often combined with obedience training and I've observed the physical training is also often a welcome change from the other lessons. Serving 101 is just that, the basics of being of service. It focuses more on attitude and how you serve rather than the forms of service themselves. In other words, it teaches service with a smile. Last, but certainly not least is Self Care. A slave is responsible for herself, always, and that includes her own healthy. These lessons teach basic health care (hygene, diet, first aid), as well as caring for themselves mentally and emotionally (dealing with stress, fear, etc.)
There ends Generalized Training, which in my own experience takes from 3 to 6 months depending on the trainee. And before anyone asks, no I do not train others any longer, I do not train for others any longer... at this point I train only for my own use. That's a personal choice on my part.
For those wondering about training, what it is or could be, what purpose it might serve... consider the above food for thought.
Bon Apetite
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