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ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

An individually-oriented society (oxymoron) accepts self-definition. An indifferent one defines and moves on (la bureaucracy).

You make a good point that society evolves; it also cycles. The current regime is friendly to its components to a point. Let me borrow a page from your example using a real-life story.

A person born as a man believes he is really a woman. He gets hired at a company pre-surgery. "He" has been told by "his" psychiatrist that "he" has to talk, act, and generally behave as a woman before the surgery will take place. Ok so far, right?

Then "he" goes to use the bathroom. "He" uses the Ladies Room. The women already in there freak out and HR is caught in an ugly spot. Do they discuss? Discipline? Ignore??

In the end "he" chose to move on to another company. The poignant point is still there, though. Letting this individual assert "himself" the way "he" wanted violated the rights and expectations of others. Was the individual right in this case? By society's definition he was, yet it broke down at the level of one-on-one. One of the women quit over the situation. Where were her rights to privacy? Who was more important?

THIS is why the labels need to be held in place. Whether we like it or not, a group that wants to work as a group, has to have governing laws and definitions set in place in order to run smoothly. The individual doesn't have to like or even accept these definitions/labels, but that alone doesn't make them wrong. If one person is defining the group, they had best be at the top of the heap, and able to keep the rest in line. (Doms - what? *chuckles* Sorry, couldn't resist.)

You don't have to accept the label, needles, but you can't dismiss or invalidate it either by force of will. It persists, and it has a purpose.

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for me i will accept people for what they tell me they are, i expect the same. if people still insist on labling me as something i'm not i'll tell them in no uncertain terms that they are being a twat and they can go forth and multiply.

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ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

fast reply

If you enjoy sex with both sexes, you are bisexual. I do not even know how this could be something up for debate.

If you are ashamed of it and want to call your self straight, that doesn't make you not bisexual. It makes you a liar.

At least that is how it is in the world I reside in.

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i'm straight, but i wouldn't be adverce to a woman touching me in any way if she wanted to. i have kissed a couple of my friends. however, i do not fancy women, have never sought contact with a woman, and most certainly don't want a 'relationship' with one.

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ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

Hmm, well, assuming no one on this site has ever committed murder is still an assumption. Regardless, though, the label, if it exists, is there because it allows people to relate. That relation can be wrong and still necessary, for them, and how you or I feel about their need to define is pretty irrelevant.

The woman's rights, not the woman, were violated. She was given reasonable expectation and no one informed her to expect otherwise. In her shoes, you can see the mindset; and again, this is not saying she is right. This is more about understanding.

You can't understand others if you dig your heels in to say your way is right. All you can do at that point is judge.

A side note: in my example, society condoned "his" rights and actions. "He" was not in the wrong, according to the masses, but does that dictate the woman's perceptions then? No. It can't dictate hers, any more than society can dictate yours.

You keep expressing your opinions. I haven't seen you consider anything else yet without quick condemnation. I'm not about to try and change your perception; I will say it is regretful to see that you refuse to acknowledge anything else. You are entitled to that opinion. Why you can't see that others are equally entitled is confusing, and yes, that includes society and its methodology for categorization.

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ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

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for me i will accept people for what they tell me they are, i expect the same. if people still insist on labling me as something i'm not i'll tell them in no uncertain terms that they are being a twat and they can go forth and multiply.

Having gotten farther in the thread, and reading this, I gotta tell you I do not understand it one bit.

I can tell you that I am a doctor. Are you going to let me operate on you?

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

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for me i will accept people for what they tell me they are, i expect the same. if people still insist on labling me as something i'm not i'll tell them in no uncertain terms that they are being a twat and they can go forth and multiply.

Having gotten farther in the thread, and reading this, I gotta tell you I do not understand it one bit.

I can tell you that I am a doctor. Are you going to let me operate on you?

well it makes perfect sence in the contexrt of the thread which is not talking about lying about your job. there is a huge difference between identifying yourself as straight, but being able to have sexual interactions with the same sex without freaking out about it, and claiming to be a dr so you can operate on people.

straight, bi, gay, whatever; you should be able to identify yourself however you wish in the best way that suits your lifestyle without someone else calling you a liar because you don't fit into their little box of what the word means.

needles

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

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i'm straight, but i wouldn't be adverce to a woman touching me in any way if she wanted to. i have kissed a couple of my friends. however, i do not fancy women, have never sought contact with a woman, and most certainly don't want a 'relationship' with one.

To me that makes you bi but that's my opinion. I'm straight and the thought of a woman touching me or kissing me would just squick me out immediately.

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so i'm bi if i let a woman use a toy on me instead of a guy, if she fingers me instead of a guy?

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ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

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for me i will accept people for what they tell me they are, i expect the same. if people still insist on labling me as something i'm not i'll tell them in no uncertain terms that they are being a twat and they can go forth and multiply.

Having gotten farther in the thread, and reading this, I gotta tell you I do not understand it one bit.

I can tell you that I am a doctor. Are you going to let me operate on you?

well it makes perfect sence in the contexrt of the thread which is not talking about lying about your job. there is a huge difference between identifying yourself as straight, but being able to have sexual interactions with the same sex without freaking out about it, and claiming to be a dr so you can operate on people.

straight, bi, gay, whatever; you should be able to identify yourself however you wish in the best way that suits your lifestyle without someone else calling you a liar because you don't fit into their little box of what the word means.

needles

Well, feel free to identify your self in any way you want to. But, with that, be prepared to be called a liar when caught.

If I was with a man, who told me he was straight, and the found out he liked to fuck other dudes, I would feel very betrayed.

So, from now on, I identify as a thin, tanned sex goddess, and do not try to tell me I aint all that and a bag of chips.

Seriously, to me, it seems that you are saying that lying is ok. That is not something I will do, nor will I accept it from others in my life. You are free to accept it in your life, but, that does not change the fact that it is lying.

ETA I do not know where the freaking out about being with the opposite sex comes from. I agree that no one has the right to judge you, if you enjoy sex both men and women, but, they do have the right to judge you if you lie about it.

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ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

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so i'm bi if i let a woman use a toy on me instead of a guy, if she fingers me instead of a guy?

Yes, you are.