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Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/9/2012 11:25:02 PM

ClassIsInSession

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Do you find it odd that Denise Rich, a known democrat is renouncing her citizenship to avoid taxes?

Isn't it the Democrats who think the rich should pay more in taxes? I guess that doesn't apply to democrat songwriters from Massachusetts.

See, when I see things like this, it only confirms my suspicion that it's a do as I say not as I do mentality.

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/9/2012 11:43:19 PM

tj444

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well,.. that may be part of it or none of it.. unless she has actually said that is the only or prime reason.. For Americans that travel a lot or live outside the US (I believe she doesnt live in the US), now there are nice new laws that require banks outside the US to report to the US govt the Americans that have bank accounts with them.. so instead of the non-US banks doing that, they are now simply refusing to deal with Americans and shutting down those that have accounts now.. That makes life for Americans living and working in other countries hell.. That is the reason cited by the Facebook co-founder that has recently given up his American citizenship.. In 2008, something like about 200 Americans gave up their citizenship, last year 1,800 Americans gave up their citizenship, quite the jump although not a huge number, but it costs a fair chunk of change to get another citizenship to be able to do that..

I am so glad to not be an American.. your govt are nazis..

"FATCA requires foreign banks to report U.S. account holders to the IRS. After identifying U.S. account holders, the institutions must impose a 30% tax on payments or transfers to account holders who refuse to identify themselves.
Many Americans are finding it difficult to open legitimate new accounts abroad and facing closure of old ones based on their nationality."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/03/23/fatca-makes-banks-shut-out-americans/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/foreign-banks-freezing-out-us-millionaires/2012/05/11/gIQABfXRLU_story.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/facebook-co-founder--america-is-ok--it%E2%80%99s-the-rules-that-are-a-pain.html

< Message edited by tj444 -- 7/9/2012 11:52:52 PM >

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/10/2012 6:24:36 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ClassIsInSession

Do you find it odd that Denise Rich, a known democrat is renouncing her citizenship to avoid taxes?

Isn't it the Democrats who think the rich should pay more in taxes? I guess that doesn't apply to democrat songwriters from Massachusetts.

See, when I see things like this, it only confirms my suspicion that it's a do as I say not as I do mentality.

Why do you get the idea the Democrats are standing before Rich's move? Anything one Democrat does is policy?

(in reply to ClassIsInSession)

Post #: 3

RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/10/2012 6:27:05 AM

tazzygirl

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Dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/10/2012 6:42:10 AM

Winterapple

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FR
It seems she spends most of her time
in Europe or on her yacht. Lover and
her daughters are in Europe, tied to
Austria through her father. But, it's
about the money basically.

I can't imagine giving up my citizenship
for money but I'm not one of the new
super wealthy. They live in a kingdom
all their own. And they can have it.

I don't know if it's accurate to call
her a Democrat. She raised money
in hopes of influencing a pardon
for her ex husband. And there are
rumors she and Bill were...close.
So if she was a democrat she was
a nominal democrat when it suited
her aims.

This bill of Schumers and Casey to
tax the greedy fucks is fine by me.

But it's no loss to the country for
her or her ilk to split. Like it better
somewhere else? Please go there.

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/10/2012 6:52:39 AM

Hillwilliam

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There's a lot of folks that I wish would leave all ready instead of pissing and moaning and bitching very publicly.

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/10/2012 11:44:34 AM

Moonhead

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FR:
If she's given up her citizenship, how can she still be a member of an American political party like the Democrats? Seems a bit pointless if she can't vote over there anymore...

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/10/2012 11:52:25 AM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
FR:
If she's given up her citizenship, how can she still be a member of an American political party like the Democrats? Seems a bit pointless if she can't vote over there anymore...

SHHHHH......

Your bring up facts to the conservatives. Conservatives dont deal in facts, just pure fantasy.

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Post #: 8

RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/11/2012 8:07:34 PM

erieangel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ClassIsInSession

Do you find it odd that Denise Rich, a known democrat is renouncing her citizenship to avoid taxes?

Isn't it the Democrats who think the rich should pay more in taxes? I guess that doesn't apply to democrat songwriters from Massachusetts.

See, when I see things like this, it only confirms my suspicion that it's a do as I say not as I do mentality.

Anybody who gives up their citizenship for monetary reasons is a dumb ass in my book. And un-American. Hope she stays where she is.

(in reply to ClassIsInSession)

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/11/2012 8:58:53 PM

defiantbadgirl

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My guess is, some people get tired of paying taxes to a government that spends more money on war and policing the world than on the citizens.

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 5:35:35 AM

Owner59

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The OP missed the cool-aid memo.......

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/07/obama_driving_citizenship_renunciations.html

Apparently.......it`s President Obama.......who is driving folks to renounce thier citizenship.

What a bunch of dopes at American thinker.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/12/2012 5:36:05 AM >

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 6:31:18 AM

tj444

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I honestly dont think that paying less tax is the only or primary reason Americans are giving up their US citizenship.. I think its much more than that, I think people that have the means are just simply fed up with multiple new laws that have come into effect since the 1950s, when as your article states, the tax rate was actually higher than now.. I dont buy that its "trendy" to give up your US citizenship.. I think its more of a case of these people "not taking it anymore" and part political protest, part getting rid of the regulatory headache of citizenship..

To give up one's citizenship is not something one does lightly or on the spur of the moment without a lot of thought given the decision.. the worst place to be is to give up your birth citizenship and then screw up somehow and have your second citizenship rescinded to be left as a person without a country.. Conrad Black (who gave up his Canadian citizenship) could have easily lost his UK citizenship due to him being convicted in the US, imo.. he is lucky that didnt happen but had the UK taken it away from him, he would have had one hell of a time (once he was finished his jail time in the US).. since being first charged in the US years ago, he has tried in vane to get his Canadian citizenship back..

I have Canadian citizenship and would never give that up, but then the Canadian laws are not nearly as restrictive as US laws are for Americans.. if I was an American,.. getting a second citizenship and renouncing American citizenship is something I would consider, regardless of how little money i had.. btw, citizenship is something I have thought about for a long time, years ago i might have considered US citizenship but with all the BS the govt has thrown at Americans (& non-Americans) since then (especially with 9/11 & the Patriot Act, etc), no way in hell I want it now..

JMO

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 6:55:32 AM

tj444

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and further.. comments to the American Thinker article, which i agree with..

from "Shane Vincent
This writer has no clue about how big a pain it is to comply with the U.S. demands when you live outside the U.S. Reporting all your bank accounts, businesses that don't want to do business with you because of IRS regs, banks that refuse you because you are a U.S. national. Not to mention the stupid "report all the countries you went to" form each year. Let me tell you that it's not the "tax rate" that is the big issue, it's the big brother, control you wherever you are that is the problem."

from "Petros Telos
Mr. Paulin, please revise your thinking about expatriation. I would venture that the majority are like me and the other participants at the Isaac Brock Society, who are just normal people with savings. The Obama adminstration has gone after our bank accounts (See, "When government turns Predator" at American Thinker) and has threatened us that if we don't enter the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program and pay 27.5% of our financial wealth to Mr. tax-cheat Geithner, then we will be discovered when the FATCA legislation kicks in (see "FATCA: a ticking time bomb for the economy") and then we will have to pay 383% of our financial wealth to the US. Moreover, we are facing complicated double taxation, despite tax treaties, because when the United States decides to change the terms of tax treaty it just unilaterally changes its own laws--such as the AMT.
The majority of us who have relinquished our US citizenship, and I know as one of them, depend now for protection from our new countries. We are excellent citizens of other countries with a strong sense of loyalty. When I said the pledge to the Queen of Canada, you better believe that I meant it. She is the only one standing between me and your confiscatory and arbitrary POTUS who is trying to pick my pocket."

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 7:08:13 AM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I honestly dont think that paying less tax is the only or primary reason Americans are giving up their US citizenship.. I think its much more than that, I think people that have the means are just simply fed up with multiple new laws that have come into effect since the 1950s, when as your article states, the tax rate was actually higher than now.. I dont buy that its "trendy" to give up your US citizenship.. I think its more of a case of these people "not taking it anymore" and part political protest, part getting rid of the regulatory headache of citizenship..

To give up one's citizenship is not something one does lightly or on the spur of the moment without a lot of thought given the decision.. the worst place to be is to give up your birth citizenship and then screw up somehow and have your second citizenship rescinded to be left as a person without a country.. Conrad Black (who gave up his Canadian citizenship) could have easily lost his UK citizenship due to him being convicted in the US, imo.. he is lucky that didnt happen but had the UK taken it away from him, he would have had one hell of a time (once he was finished his jail time in the US).. since being first charged in the US years ago, he has tried in vane to get his Canadian citizenship back..

I have Canadian citizenship and would never give that up, but then the Canadian laws are not nearly as restrictive as US laws are for Americans.. if I was an American,.. getting a second citizenship and renouncing American citizenship is something I would consider, regardless of how little money i had.. btw, citizenship is something I have thought about for a long time, years ago i might have considered US citizenship but with all the BS the govt has thrown at Americans (& non-Americans) since then (especially with 9/11 & the Patriot Act, etc), no way in hell I want it now..

JMO

Considering that it was primarily America or only America that allowed such wealth to be accumulated/inherited......I find the "I`m fed up" argument a little thin.

Not that these ex-pats want to or are honest enough to acknowledge that.......

But if not for America....all or most of these spoided brats wouldn`t have "fuck-you" money.

I say fuck them.

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 8:24:29 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Considering that it was primarily America or only America that allowed such wealth to be accumulated/inherited......I find the "I`m fed up" argument a little thin.

Not that these ex-pats want to or are honest enough to acknowledge that.......

But if not for America....all or most of these spoided brats wouldn`t have "fuck-you" money.

I say fuck them.

well,.. assuming that it was primarily America or only America that allowed such wealth.. when has one "paid back" enough to be able to say fuck you???

I disagree with that tho, for the really rich people, they have businesses and real estate around the globe so what they made in the US isnt necessarily a huge part of their wealth.. not to mention, the expats that commented on the article do not in any way sound like they are rich, they actually sound like expats that are average people who have jobs outside the US and/or married someone in another country (so more easily and cheaply acquired second citizenship).. It also costs money to give up your US citizenship, the IRS gives Americans a tax bill that has to be paid before Americans can be allowed to give up citizenship.. and btw, the IRS also decides if those that do give up their citizenship are required to continue to file and pay US taxes for up to an additional 10 years after they are no longer US citizens..

eta- those that give up US citizenship and own businesses and/or real estate in the US continue to pay US tax on those sources, just its not on their entire world-wide income that gets taxed any longer.. The US is the only country in the developed world that taxes based on both residency and citizenship no matter where in the world they live..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 7/12/2012 8:32:04 AM >

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 11:24:21 AM

kalikshama

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/post/in-other-news-denise-rich-gives-up-us-citizenship/2012/07/09/gJQAnTXkYW_blog.html

America, say auf wiedersehn to Denise Rich. The socialite-songwriter and avid Bill Clinton fundraiser — whose ex-husband got a controversial White House pardon in 2001 — has given up her U.S. passport in favor of the Austrian citizenship she got from her late father. She’ll likely save tens of millions in U.S. taxes by making London her permanent home, experts told Reuters — though Rich’s lawyer said the move is about being closer to her daughters and her long-time boyfriend. The Grammy nominee, who penned pop tunes for Aretha Franklin and Mandy Moore, landed in the center of Pardongate when Clinton granted her fugitive financier ex-husband Marc Rich a pardon from illegal trading and tax evasion charges; she took the Fifth rather than testify before Congress on the matter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/facebook-founder-saverin-gives-up-us-citizenship/2012/05/11/gIQAAMCoIU_story.html

Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin has given up his U.S. citizenship, a move that will reduce his taxes when Facebook goes public in the coming weeks.

Saverin, who was born in Brazil and moved to the U.S. in 1992 and has been a U.S. citizen since 1998, has decided to become a resident of Singapore. He is said to own around 5 percent of the company, which has a valuation of between $77 billion and $96 billion according to paperwork filed ahead of its initial public offering.

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 2:12:21 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Considering that it was primarily America or only America that allowed such wealth to be accumulated/inherited......I find the "I`m fed up" argument a little thin.

Not that these ex-pats want to or are honest enough to acknowledge that.......

But if not for America....all or most of these spoided brats wouldn`t have "fuck-you" money.

I say fuck them.

well,.. assuming that it was primarily America or only America that allowed such wealth.. when has one "paid back" enough to be able to say fuck you???

I disagree with that tho, for the really rich people, they have businesses and real estate around the globe so what they made in the US isnt necessarily a huge part of their wealth.. not to mention, the expats that commented on the article do not in any way sound like they are rich, they actually sound like expats that are average people who have jobs outside the US and/or married someone in another country (so more easily and cheaply acquired second citizenship).. It also costs money to give up your US citizenship, the IRS gives Americans a tax bill that has to be paid before Americans can be allowed to give up citizenship.. and btw, the IRS also decides if those that do give up their citizenship are required to continue to file and pay US taxes for up to an additional 10 years after they are no longer US citizens..

eta- those that give up US citizenship and own businesses and/or real estate in the US continue to pay US tax on those sources, just its not on their entire world-wide income that gets taxed any longer.. The US is the only country in the developed world that taxes based on both residency and citizenship no matter where in the world they live..

Let them pay what the laws/rules say the should pay,they earned the money......No one is asking anyone to pay twice.

As well,many of these spoiled ex-pats still have business here and are still earning money from the American system......

Finally......ask me how much sympathy I have for the jet-set having to disclose their incomes and investments.....

Go ahead.......just ask me......

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 2:20:07 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/post/in-other-news-denise-rich-gives-up-us-citizenship/2012/07/09/gJQAnTXkYW_blog.html

America, say auf wiedersehn to Denise Rich. The socialite-songwriter and avid Bill Clinton fundraiser — whose ex-husband got a controversial White House pardon in 2001 — has given up her U.S. passport in favor of the Austrian citizenship she got from her late father. She’ll likely save tens of millions in U.S. taxes by making London her permanent home, experts told Reuters — though Rich’s lawyer said the move is about being closer to her daughters and her long-time boyfriend. The Grammy nominee, who penned pop tunes for Aretha Franklin and Mandy Moore, landed in the center of Pardongate when Clinton granted her fugitive financier ex-husband Marc Rich a pardon from illegal trading and tax evasion charges; she took the Fifth rather than testify before Congress on the matter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/facebook-founder-saverin-gives-up-us-citizenship/2012/05/11/gIQAAMCoIU_story.html

Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin has given up his U.S. citizenship, a move that will reduce his taxes when Facebook goes public in the coming weeks.

Saverin, who was born in Brazil and moved to the U.S. in 1992 and has been a U.S. citizen since 1998, has decided to become a resident of Singapore. He is said to own around 5 percent of the company, which has a valuation of between $77 billion and $96 billion according to paperwork filed ahead of its initial public offering.

"Saverin's Citizenship Renunciation Before Facebook IPO Will Increase, Not Reduce, His Tax Bill"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/05/12/saverins-citizenship-renunciation-before-facebook-ipo-will-increase-not-reduce-his-tax-bill/

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 2:22:33 PM

kalikshama

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Interesting.

Saverin won’t escape all U.S. taxes. Americans who give up their citizenship owe what is effectively an exit tax on the capital gains from their stock holdings, even if they don’t sell the shares, said Reuven S. Avi-Yonah, director of the international tax program at the University of Michigan’s law school. For tax purposes, the IRS treats the stock as if it has been sold.

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RE: Denise Rich gives up citizenship - 7/12/2012 5:12:28 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Interesting.

Saverin won’t escape all U.S. taxes. Americans who give up their citizenship owe what is effectively an exit tax on the capital gains from their stock holdings, even if they don’t sell the shares, said Reuven S. Avi-Yonah, director of the international tax program at the University of Michigan’s law school. For tax purposes, the IRS treats the stock as if it has been sold.

That goes for any US citizen that renounces their citizenship.. as I said above,.. the IRS hands Americans a tax bill that they have to pay before they are allowed to renounce.. And if the IRS decides, they can require the expats to continue to file and pay tax for up to an additional 10 years.. I believe they tend to do that if they decide someone is renouncing for only tax reasons, they assume the expat has not declared all assets and income when they renounced and those extra years they search for inconsistancies to nail the expat to the wall..

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