RE: Tom and Scientology (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 1:18:37 PM)

As someone who was raised Catholic, I'd feel remiss if I didn't offer some bizarre (and interestingly masochistic) aspects of my former religion:

Top 10 Bizarre Aspects of Catholicism

...2. The Cilice

[image]http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/cilice3-tm.jpg[/image]

A cilice is an item worn on the body to inflict pain or discomfort for the sake of penance (remorse for your past actions). Originally a cilice was an undergarment made of rough hair (such as a hairshirt) or cloth. In recent times it has been seen as more discreet to wear a chain which has spikes on it. Contrary to popular belief, the cilice does not break the skin – it merely causes discomfort. It is usually worn around the thigh.

The Catholic Encylopedia of 1913 says:

“In modern times the use of the hairshirt [(cilice)] has been generally confined to the members of certain religious orders. At the present day only the Carthusians and Carmelites wear it by rule; with others it is merely a matter of custom or voluntary mortification.”

In recent years the cilice has gained a great deal of publicity due to the book The Da Vinci Code in which it is worn by the main antagonist of the story – though in the story it is exaggeratedly described as causing wounds. Wearing the cilice has always been an optional practice for Catholics. Some famous people in the past to have worn them are Saint Thomas More and Saint Patrick.

3. The Flagrum

[image]http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/pp-flagrum4-tm.jpg[/image]

The Flagrum is a type of scourge with small hard objects attached to the length of its cords. It is traditionally used to whip oneself (self-flagellation) and is most commonly found in conservative religious orders. The flagrum is held in one hand and thrown over the shoulder in order to cause the cords to strike the flesh. The purpose of self-flagellation is voluntary penance and mortification of the flesh (a safeguard against committing further sins).

The most famous Saint to use the flagrum is probably Saint John Vianney, who would give his parishoners very light penances in confession and then flog himself in privacy for their benefit (it is believed by Catholics that acts of penance can be offered for the sins of other living people or the souls of the dead). When Saint John Vianney died, the walls of his bedroom had spatterings of blood on them from his extreme use of the flagrum.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

“St. Peter Damian (died 1072) [...] wrote a special treatise in praise of self-flagellation; though blamed by some contemporaries for excess of zeal, his example and the high esteem in which he was held did much to popularize the voluntary use of the scourge or “discipline” as a means of mortification and penance.”

Most Catholics who practice this form of discipline will not admit it publicly as it would be seen as a lack of humility that could lead to the sin of pride.

4. Confraternities of the Cord

[image]http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/joecord-tm.jpg[/image]

The third, (and final) of the penance-related objects, the Confraternities of the Cord are groups who wear a knotted cord around their waist as a form of penance and in order to help prevent future sins. The cord can be worn loosely in remembrance of the Saint for whom the cord is named, or it can be worn tight enough to cause pain, as has been the case with numerous saints in history.

St Joseph, St Francis, St Thomas, and St Augustine, St Nicholas, and St Monica all have Confraternities of the Cord named after them. The Catholic Encylopedia says:

In the early Church virgins wore a cincture as a sign and emblem of purity, and hence it has always been considered a symbol of chastity as well as of mortification and humility. The wearing of a cord or cincture in honour of a saint is of very ancient origin, and we find the first mention of it in the life of St. Monica.

The various confraternities differ in the number of knots on the cord.

...6. Indulgences

[image]http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/indulgences-tm.jpg[/image]

Catholics believe that when a person sins, they have two punishments to suffer – eternal (Hell) and temporal (punishment by suffering on earth or in Purgatory). Indulgences are special actions that a person can perform in order to reduce or remove the temporal punishment they are owed. The idea behind it is that certain acts of holiness can take the place of punishment. Indulgences must be declared by the Pope.

There are two types of indulgence: Plenary (removes all temporal punishment) and partial (removes some punishment). A partial indulgence can be for a specific number of days or years. Some indulgences only apply to the souls in Purgatory but any personal indulgences can also be offered for those souls, rather than your own. An example of an indulgence is: “An indulgence, applicable only to the Souls in Purgatory, is granted to the faithful, who devoutly visit a cemetery and pray, even if only mentally, for the departed. The indulgence is plenary each day from the 1st to the 8th of November; on other days of the year it is partial.” (from the Enchiridion of Indulgences).

During the middle ages, a number of Bishops and Priests, seeking to make money, told people that they could pay for indulgences. This abuse partly contributed to the sparking off of the protestant reformation. While the Catholic Church tried to suppress this behavior, it took a great deal of time for the traffic in indulgences to stop completely.

It is quite common for the Pope to announce new indulgences from time to time, to mark special occasions – such as the Jubilee in which Pope John Paul II granted a plenary indulgence.

Read more: http://listverse.com/2007/09/12/top-10-bizarre-aspects-of-catholicism/




Winterapple -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 4:45:13 PM)

FR
Uranus(Sky) and Gaia(Earth)
begat the Titans. The Titans
then begat the Olympians
(the Zeus crowd) who I believe
et them thus putting an end
to the Titans.
Think that's how it went.
A better mythos than Scientology
in any case.




MasterJohnSteed -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 5:17:15 PM)

Simple Fact Hubbard said at a sci fi convention "I figured that the only way to make any real money was to start my own religion" this was like the year before dianetics came out. Simple fact its a crock of shit!




angelikaJ -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 6:31:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJohnSteed

Simple Fact Hubbard said at a sci fi convention "I figured that the only way to make any real money was to start my own religion" this was like the year before dianetics came out. Simple fact its a crock of shit!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies#L._Ron_Hubbard_and_starting_a_religion_for_money




PeonForHer -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 6:38:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX [to Moonhead]

Whats not to love about Uranus?



Wow, an unusual compliment, to be sure, but a compliment anyway, eh, Moonie? You're in there!




JanahX -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 6:41:18 PM)

PEON - OUT of CONTEXT - but what is in context, is that you had better go and read that long ass thread I wrote for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX [to Moonhead]

Whats not to love about Uranus?



Wow, an unusual compliment, to be sure, but a compliment anyway, eh, Moonie? You're in there!





LizDeluxe -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 7:32:46 PM)

The age difference probably had much more to do with why that union ended than Scientology did.




Don91 -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 7:37:03 PM)

Tom is a powerful man. God knows how many dudes he's been getting with since his Scientology movement. #Respect




ForgetMeKnots -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 7:51:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Mormonism is a close second. It is almost like the Mormons invented Scientology so they wouldn't be the stupidest religion anymore.



Water just came out my nose.

Thkx. ;)




ForgetMeKnots -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 7:58:34 PM)


I second the idea that she's always looked sad in her pictures.
I second that she's not a good actress. (Never has been in my opinion.)
I second that I'm glad she's out.

This whole thing has a "Sleeping with the Enemy" vibe about it. I hope she uses the paparazzi and the public eye to her and her daughter's advantage.




JanahX -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 8:14:29 PM)

To be honest - I couldnt give a rats ass about Tom and Katie. If both got hit by a bus tomorrow I really wouldnt care. They both suck ass as actors. I think I might of liked Rainman - but only because it had an autistic character in it (Dustin Hoffman) and that was kinda cool watching him act all weird and stuff.




Duskypearls -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/12/2012 10:47:11 PM)

Having no awareness or insights as to who/what really Tom is other than what has been portrayed by media and movies, there may be little accuracy in my personal perception/assessment of him, which is that of puer aeternus, or the eternal boy archetype. Something alone the lines of Peter Pan Syndrome or perpetual adolescence. Never have I sensed even so much as a drop of true masculinity or manliness about him, and find him and his acting skills empty and disappointing. Harsh, I know, but there it is.




littlewonder -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/13/2012 1:33:58 AM)

I've owned a cilice and a flagrum at one time or another way before the DaVinci movies came about, for the express purposes you mentioned. I'm not a catholic and never have been but for me they were helpful in a form of sacrifice and suffering to/for God.





mons -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/13/2012 4:44:37 AM)

Something was very wrong in that marriage!
She had to plan an escape, this is something
battered women do!

mons




RemoteUser -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/13/2012 7:06:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

Something was very wrong in that marriage!
She had to plan an escape, this is something
battered women do!

mons


And players. Don't forget the players. I surely won't, I've been on the bad end of that stick before.

Sometimes leaving unexpectedly gives you the opportunity to take things too, like valuables. [8D]




angelikaJ -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/13/2012 7:34:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser


quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

Something was very wrong in that marriage!
She had to plan an escape, this is something
battered women do!

mons


And players. Don't forget the players. I surely won't, I've been on the bad end of that stick before.

Sometimes leaving unexpectedly gives you the opportunity to take things too, like valuables. [8D]


This is not pertaining to your situation so do not take offense at what I am going to say:

A woman who is fleeing emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse may need to take valuables if she has no cash of her own and needs the means to escape.
Within the context of a marriage, I don't see it as stealing, given community property rules.

In something less than a marriage?
Sometimes the need to survive drives people to extreme measures, right or wrong.




RemoteUser -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/13/2012 7:43:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser


quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

Something was very wrong in that marriage!
She had to plan an escape, this is something
battered women do!

mons


And players. Don't forget the players. I surely won't, I've been on the bad end of that stick before.

Sometimes leaving unexpectedly gives you the opportunity to take things too, like valuables. [8D]


This is not pertaining to your situation so do not take offense at what I am going to say:

A woman who is fleeing emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse may need to take valuables if she has no cash of her own and needs the means to escape.
Within the context of a marriage, I don't see it as stealing, given community property rules.

In something less than a marriage?
Sometimes the need to survive drives people to extreme measures, right or wrong.


No worries, I know whatcha mean, and I agree that a woman should have the financial ability to walk if she needs to.

Financial control is only cool when it's consented by both.







Moonhead -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/13/2012 7:53:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJohnSteed

Simple Fact Hubbard said at a sci fi convention "I figured that the only way to make any real money was to start my own religion" this was like the year before dianetics came out. Simple fact its a crock of shit!

It's a terrible shame the Cof$ managed to hound A Piece Of The Blue Sky and Bare Faced Messiah out of print, really.




Rule -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/13/2012 2:53:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
So, how does uins feel about Tom, the wackos, and the wife, who had the guts to get the fuck outta there?

There is more to Scientology than meets the eye. There is the public image and hidden behind that is something else entirely.




littlewonder -> RE: Tom and Scientology (7/13/2012 4:16:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

Something was very wrong in that marriage!
She had to plan an escape, this is something
battered women do!

mons



I'm highly doubting she was a battered or abused wife unless you feel him neglecting her as abuse. He probably wasn't home a lot with him filming a lot of movies lately. Like I said, we don't know the details of why she decided to leave. But with all the public photos of her I don't ever remember seeing her battered and bruised. I'm sure if she was the tabloids would have had a field day.

I don't think saying she was a battered wife should just be thrown out there lightly like every womena who wants to get a divorce must somehow be a battered wife. [8|]




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