RE: What is the Republicans' plan?

RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 3:09:01 PM)
quote: What's Obama's plan again? Oh yeah... Try again.......... [image]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/602507_10150948557451943_2054101152_n.jpg[/image]

subrob1967 -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 3:15:27 PM)
Ah yes, the bullshit poster[8\|] Why do you guys keep posting that propaganda? The bill never even made it out of the Senate, but yet you try and pawn the refusal on the republican house. Thanks for the laugh Mr Disingenuous.

joether -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 3:16:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Many of us were waiting, hoping, for something workable to get this country back on its feet. Won't happen as the goals have been so radically changed. What you seek is the path to actualize the desired paradigm. I.e., joether - If you don't see the desire for a blueprint society there then you don't know what is being sought. The contradictions are astounding. I was actually asking for the Republican plan with you at the head of that Republican Plan. Creating it as you wish, with all the details, but with the knowledge it has to be applied across the board to all persons found under the goverment's control (cus thats how the US Consitution dictates things). You often bitch that liberals dont listen to conservatives, and we dont listen to you. Well, you were given that chance in all fairness and honesty. I even set forth the rules ahead of time to be fair with it. And you pissed it away. That not anyone's fault; that is your failing plain and simple. Bitch all you want, for why should people take you seriously in the future when your willing to diminish your own credibility, by your own words and actions? I 'get' that you dont like the ACA. You never read it, dont wish to read it. But you will certainly take advantage of all it has to offer.....while still protesting your against it. Just like a perfectly ignorant conservative. The ACA is a fair bill at best. It could have and should have been better. In fact, if Democrats knew knew then what they know now, it would have been a better bill. But instead of dealing with the problem head on like an adult, you reverted to what all conservatives do these days: the mental and emotional level of a 6th grader. You couldnt handle the adult level questions and expectations. Why should we allow you at the adult table in the future when discussing any topics when clearly you dont possess the mental and emotional (must less educational or wisdom) for the discussinons?

Musicmystery -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 3:38:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Ah yes, the bullshit poster[8\|] Why do you guys keep posting that propaganda? The bill never even made it out of the Senate, but yet you try and pawn the refusal on the republican house. Thanks for the laugh Mr Disingenuous. Here's why. Maybe you can fill me in.... What exactly is the House doing about jobs? Oh yeah. Nothing. Except whining someone should do something.

SadistDave -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 3:50:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Yet in 6 years of control of Congress and the White House, not one of those things happened. Also, not one of those things addresses the issues of uninsured, dropped when sick, no coverage for preexisting conditions, etc etc etc. The two middle ones are attempts to remove protections, not health care reform. Of course they're opposed. Complaining that didn't pass health care reforms when they had the chance is a straw man, and you know it. Health care was not an issue in those 6 years. It only became an issue because it is a Democratic issue and Democrats found themselves in complete control of the government. Health care has been the "Holy Grail" of the Democratic party for decades. Libs had their chance and they jumped on it without any regard for what the country wanted. I agree with you on the issues of uninsured, dropped when sick, no coverage for preexisting conditions, and maybe even some of the etc.'s. A lot of conservative lawmakers probably would have too. In fact, I'm sure there were a lot of conservatives agreeing with those things when Nancy and Harry were busy forcing through Obamacare. Again, it's easier for liberals to repeat the lie that conservatives just want people to die when they get sick. I don't quite understand what your issue is with the middle two. Here in America, we take a very long time developing drugs. Much more time than they do in countries with socialized medicine. If you love the Canadian Health Care system (for example) they take about 1/2 of the time it takes to research, develop and market a drug than the U.S. does. America takes longer than just about everyone, so the odds are that if we are going to try to model a new system based on what everyone else is doing, then this "protection" will be lost as our health care becomes more socialized anyway... As for tort reform.... The U.S. has no cap on the damages awarded in a medical lawsuit, which increases the cost of doing business for hospitals and doctors. Are you aware how much time and effort doctors have to spend just to make sure they won't be hit with a frivolous lawsuit that will wipe them out? Some estimates are that as much as 60% of the expense of a hospital visit is wrapped up in lawyers' fees, malpractice insurance, and unnecessary testing that is only administered to avoid lawsuits. Again, no other country with socialized medicine has this sort of debilitating regulation on the medical industry, so getting what you ultimately want out of health care will mean that this protection must disappear too. -SD-

Musicmystery -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 4:07:46 PM)
quote: Complaining that didn't pass health care reforms when they had the chance is a straw man, and you know it. Health care was not an issue in those 6 years. Well why the fuck not? It was an issue in the early 90s---what happened to that? Oh yeah. Republicans didn't give a fuck. Now we have health care. In November, I'll vote to keep it.

Yachtie -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 4:20:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Many of us were waiting, hoping, for something workable to get this country back on its feet. Won't happen as the goals have been so radically changed. What you seek is the path to actualize the desired paradigm. I.e., joether - If you don't see the desire for a blueprint society there then you don't know what is being sought. The contradictions are astounding. I was actually asking for the Republican plan with you at the head of that Republican Plan. Creating it as you wish, with all the details, but with the knowledge it has to be applied across the board to all persons found under the goverment's control (cus thats how the US Consitution dictates things). You often bitch that liberals dont listen to conservatives, and we dont listen to you. Well, you were given that chance in all fairness and honesty. I even set forth the rules ahead of time to be fair with it. And you pissed it away. That not anyone's fault; that is your failing plain and simple. Bitch all you want, for why should people take you seriously in the future when your willing to diminish your own credibility, by your own words and actions? I 'get' that you dont like the ACA. You never read it, dont wish to read it. But you will certainly take advantage of all it has to offer.....while still protesting your against it. Just like a perfectly ignorant conservative. The ACA is a fair bill at best. It could have and should have been better. In fact, if Democrats knew knew then what they know now, it would have been a better bill. But instead of dealing with the problem head on like an adult, you reverted to what all conservatives do these days: the mental and emotional level of a 6th grader. You couldnt handle the adult level questions and expectations. Why should we allow you at the adult table in the future when discussing any topics when clearly you dont possess the mental and emotional (must less educational or wisdom) for the discussinons? You are such a petulant child.

tazzygirl -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 4:20:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave There are actually several different plans to a conservative approach to health care reform that have been around for years. Here are some of the main items that were brought up by conservatives in 2009 * allow health insurance to be sold across state lines to bring down the cost of insurance through competitive markets. * tort reform to bring down the actual cost of medical care by eliminating trivial and fraudulent lawsuits against doctors and hospitals. * reforming the rules governing medical research to get drugs on the market faster making them less expensive. * allowing for people to have tax free medical savings accounts. Libs don't like any of these things because they ultimately mean that people have to take responsibility for their own health care decisions. It is far more convenient for them to perpetuate the lie that conservatives have no plan than it is to debate them about the issue. That's why, when the libs had the House, the Senate, and the Oval Office, they had to run their bill through before anyone had time to read it, let alone discuss the merits and issues with the bill. Obamacare would have never survived an honest debate. -SD- Still doesnt address pre-existing conditions or affordability. Tort reform only 0.5% Less expensive drugs would be good.... then we get meds like Yaz faster that kill more people? Tax free medical savings... another good idea... however, these address those without the ability to afford coverage how?

DomKen -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 4:30:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Ah yes, the bullshit poster[8\|] Why do you guys keep posting that propaganda? The bill never even made it out of the Senate, but yet you try and pawn the refusal on the republican house. Thanks for the laugh Mr Disingenuous. Bills don't have to "make it ot of the Senate" for the House to vote on them. In times when Congress actually functioned both houses worked on legislation concurrently.

DomKen -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 4:34:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Yet in 6 years of control of Congress and the White House, not one of those things happened. Also, not one of those things addresses the issues of uninsured, dropped when sick, no coverage for preexisting conditions, etc etc etc. The two middle ones are attempts to remove protections, not health care reform. Of course they're opposed. Complaining that didn't pass health care reforms when they had the chance is a straw man, and you know it. Health care was not an issue in those 6 years. It only became an issue because it is a Democratic issue and Democrats found themselves in complete control of the government. Health care has been the "Holy Grail" of the Democratic party for decades. Libs had their chance and they jumped on it without any regard for what the country wanted. Actually cost of health care has been a fairly consistent issue considered important by Americans. Gallup says that around 6% of Americans consider it the most important issue.

kalikshama -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 4:54:54 PM)
quote: Libs don't like any of these things because they ultimately mean that people have to take responsibility for their own health care decisions. Personal responsibility, where have I heard that before... the individual mandate was a conservative idea -- born at the Heritage Foundation and trotted out as the alternative to President Clinton's health care reform by Senate Republicans. Republicans backed the individual mandate and its call for "personal responsibility" until 2009 -- or until Democrats adopted the idea.

dcnovice -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 5:51:04 PM)
FR <digression> Great to have you back on the boards, LAM! </digression>

subrob1967 -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 5:56:44 PM)
Harry Reid and his Senate cronies Mm... But you already knew that.[8\|]

kalikshama -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 7:23:47 PM)
quote: Great to have you back on the boards, LAM! If that was to me, it's the funniest abbreviation of my name I've seen yet! I need to take a break from politics from time to time. I'm on an NPR break at the moment.

mnottertail -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 7:24:23 PM)
he meant lordo, lroddie. lordandmaster

kalikshama -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 7:27:08 PM)
Aha! The in reply to was to me and I couldn't see anyone on this page that fit - thanks for clearing that up!

mnottertail -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 7:28:41 PM)
us very old timers speak in shorthand shorthand. its like we never left the pinochle game

MissAsylum -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 7:36:18 PM)
FR it appears that i'll have to wait until the actual debates occur to get a somewhat straightforward answer on what the plans are for the country. my loyalty is to nobody- so long as they legitimately have a plan that will honestly move the country forward, instead of circling around the drain like it has been doing consistently since 2004. just from my perspective as a moderate independent, this is beyond frustrating when both sides are dishing out white noise.

Lordandmaster -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 10:17:47 PM)
All right, then how would you and your conservative lawmaker friends pay for all those reforms? Without a universal mandate or a single-payer system, removing exemptions for preexisting conditions would have caused premiums to skyrocket. Do you really pretend not to recognize this? This is precisely why CONSERVATIVES came up with the idea of the universal mandate in the first place. (Romney was at the forefront of it.) Then all of a sudden, as soon as the Obama Administration tried to put it into practice, they decided it was a bad idea. THAT'S why we say the current Republican plan seems to be "Don't get sick." quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave I agree with you on the issues of uninsured, dropped when sick, no coverage for preexisting conditions, and maybe even some of the etc.'s. A lot of conservative lawmakers probably would have too. In fact, I'm sure there were a lot of conservatives agreeing with those things when Nancy and Harry were busy forcing through Obamacare. Again, it's easier for liberals to repeat the lie that conservatives just want people to die when they get sick.

Lordandmaster -> RE: What is the Republicans' plan? (7/12/2012 10:20:25 PM)
And P.S. ty for the welcome, dcnovice!

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