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Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/13/2012 9:16:22 PM   
SpotBrat


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Before You Read: I tried to be politically correct with He/She and he/she, but that is a ridiculous hassle. Good God, I detest political correctness. For the sake of this thread, I am writing in terms of a Male/male couple, but please feel free to apply your gender preferences. Happy reading!

I have seen a few Doms use two words to describe subs: assets and liabilities. I have even seen a few that say that their subs "must be an asset- not a liability." Obviously, this is impossible if you make any commitment to the sub (such as housing them), because they make a donation to the Doms by being their service-provider. If something were to happen (sickness, injury, etc.) and the sub was unable to perform, they would technically be a liability.

In fact, the only way I can see a sub as being strictly an asset is if there is absolutely no emotional or moral obligations taken on by the Dom. The Dom would have to keep the sub away from His home at all times because if the sub were to be injured or take on an illness, it would be legal responsibility of the Dom to do something. That is, unless He is unless he is okay with with risking having a corpse sitting in his home for the rest of eternity. If it is in a place outside of the home, He must be able to completely abandon the sub if he is injured or becomes ill.

Personally, I think that being an "asset" as compared to a "liability" is a weighted concept. In other words, I think it's a matter of being more of an asset than a liability. At least, I think (with both logic and prayer) that that is what these Doms mean. However, I have talked to some subs who stand vehemently for and against that type of description for their own personal and understandable reasons.

Yeah, I know I'm blowing things into extreme and needless hyperbole. However, in reality, that is not too uncommon within the community. In fact, some would say it is an essential factor.

What do you guys think?

If you are a sub who doesn't find the idea of "not being a liability" concerning: Are you not unnerved because you confidently believe that you can be only an asset? Do you think it is just silly and fantastic hyperbole?

If you do find it unnerving: Do you think many Doms actually believe a sub can actually not be a liability? Is it just formal speak to prove an underlying point to a sub who acts interested in the Dom?

Love and Hugs,
Spot-Brat

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/13/2012 9:27:31 PM   
lizi


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I'm left wondering if you're running across the assets vs liability thing as it pertains to behavior or character or choices rather than in a strictly financial sense? For instance a sub as an asset could be someone whose public persona reflected well on the Dom - someone whose behavior was pleasing. Pleasing of course would mean different things to different people.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/13/2012 9:54:23 PM   
SpotBrat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

I'm left wondering if you're running across the assets vs liability thing as it pertains to behavior or character or choices rather than in a strictly financial sense? For instance a sub as an asset could be someone whose public persona reflected well on the Dom - someone whose behavior was pleasing. Pleasing of course would mean different things to different people.



Good point! That had not occurred to me. I suppose I was thinking far too technical rather than in terms of reflection on the management and quality of the relationship.

Thank you for the feedback.

It still could be a very interesting technical discussion, though. lol

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/13/2012 10:08:33 PM   
lizi


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Oh absolutely it would be a good discussion as you have it outlined. I just wanted to say that I've seen the terms liability and asset used more for behavior issues than financial. It's been my experience that if a Dominant wishes to have the submissives contribute to the household finances they say outright that the submissives are expected to contribute, lol. I don't see much pussyfooting around with the concept, people generally say outright that financial contribution to household expenses is required. So the idea of being a liability to me as an expectation is usually behavior based. We'll see what others have to say though

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/13/2012 10:29:34 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

I'm left wondering if you're running across the assets vs liability thing as it pertains to behavior or character or choices rather than in a strictly financial sense? For instance a sub as an asset could be someone whose public persona reflected well on the Dom - someone whose behavior was pleasing. Pleasing of course would mean different things to different people.


I always imagined it this way too.

It always makes me think of those people whose profiles state they want to be kept as a prisoner-slave, chained 24/7. If I were looking for a slave, that would be a huge liability since their maintenance, upkeep and wellbeing would all depend on me. Lots of work, which for me would defeat the object. I would want someone who could clean and cook and provide amusing conversation and go out with me.

That's an extreme example but the same could be said of someone who liked to play up for constant punishment - again the work would begin to outweigh the pleasure.

So aside from the money (which obviously is an important consideration) I'd always assumed that an asset enhances your life on balance, whereas a liability is added burden.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 12:18:23 AM   
Thaz


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I think you might want to think of it as "Net Asset"

Everyone, _everyone_ is a stack of pro's and cons. In time you may come to love/like those cons as well. However if the balance sheet it added up and your sub is more hassle then they're worth.....then they are not an asset.

My darling sub and wife has had some serious health issues which we are working to over come, hassle from work and so on. Would I kick her to the curb for that? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo. All the other things she brings to the relationship more than outweight the negatives (and its not like I havent had my issues, including a 3 month spell in hospital a couple of years ago and allmost loosing my job in a round of layoffs).

Was the cute, wealthy brat I was with before hand worth the hassle and string of traumatised ex-boyfriends who kept showing up? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. (even if she did look great in hot pants and thigh boots)

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 12:24:17 AM   
LadyPact


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In looking at this from a certain way, all people are a liability. Hell, I'm a liability. I'm human and have faults. So does everyone else.

If you're going to keep some kind of balance sheet, you know, aren't the people in your life bringing those positive things? If not, cut them loose. If they do.... Well, count your blessings.



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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 1:05:13 AM   
Kana


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Ahhhh, but are you really using the terms asset and liability properly?

An asset can (and usually does) involve a capital investment as well as outlays in time and effort. The thing that makes an item an asset is that it can then be used to generate future revenues. These expenses decrease net income. Or to put it simply, an asset is an investment-an outlay of capital made with the expectation that it will return a greater value down the road, thus justifying the material outlay.
Whereas a liability is an obligation to pay an outside party-they decrease stockholders equity or the amount of money a company would keep in retained earnings. In other words, there is an outflow of capital that will not be returned.

That basic accounting lesson in mind, I would argue that a slave is of course an asset.

Yes, she may involve a material outlay of time, money and effort, but this outlay, it's not a sunk cost. Instead it's an investment in future returns, returns which may or may not be financial or financial in nature (Think a slave that cleans her Masters house, thus saving him the cost of hiring a maid), but it's my bet he's getting some sort of return (Sex, power, control, an emotional payoff) that more than validates the outlay.


I mean hey, if an employee (And what is a slave/sub but the ultimate personal assistant) isn't covering their own costs or providing reciprocal value, why would they be kept on? And the same holds true for almost all relationships, BDSM and nilla-people stay in them as long as what they get out equals or betters what they put in (Which sometimes, especially in the case of slaves, what they put in IS what they get out-in the act of giving the get an internal payoff that fulfills them) and when things start going one way, when the emotional/physical/spiritual/chronological outlays are no longer relatively equal between the two parties, the usually one or the other splits.

So sure a slave should be an asset. If she's not, he needs to look in the mirror. In the same way that a company is responsible for proper use of resources and capital, so is a Sir. If he is not maximizing the return on his emotional investment in her, then he needs to see why he isn't getting back what he should.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 1:32:55 AM   
SpotBrat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Ahhhh, but are you really using the terms asset and liability properly?

An asset can (and usually does) involve a capital investment as well as outlays in time and effort. The thing that makes an item an asset is that it can then be used to generate future revenues. These expenses decrease net income. Or to put it simply, an asset is an investment-an outlay of capital made with the expectation that it will return a greater value down the road, thus justifying the material outlay.
Whereas a liability is an obligation to pay an outside party-they decrease stockholders equity or the amount of money a company would keep in retained earnings. In other words, there is an outflow of capital that will not be returned.

That basic accounting lesson in mind, I would argue that a slave is of course an asset.

Yes, she may involve a material outlay of time, money and effort, but this outlay, it's not a sunk cost. Instead it's an investment in future returns, returns which may or may not be financial or financial in nature (Think a slave that cleans her Masters house, thus saving him the cost of hiring a maid), but it's my bet he's getting some sort of return (Sex, power, control, an emotional payoff) that more than validates the outlay.


I mean hey, if an employee (And what is a slave/sub but the ultimate personal assistant) isn't covering their own costs or providing reciprocal value, why would they be kept on? And the same holds true for almost all relationships, BDSM and nilla-people stay in them as long as what they get out equals or betters what they put in (Which sometimes, especially in the case of slaves, what they put in IS what they get out-in the act of giving the get an internal payoff that fulfills them) and when things start going one way, when the emotional/physical/spiritual/chronological outlays are no longer relatively equal between the two parties, the usually one or the other splits.

So sure a slave should be an asset. If she's not, he needs to look in the mirror. In the same way that a company is responsible for proper use of resources and capital, so is a Sir. If he is not maximizing the return on his emotional investment in her, then he needs to see why he isn't getting back what he should.


Marvelous.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 4:45:05 AM   
ARIES83


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I don't really see the point of view, subs
being a asset or liability...
If you wanted to break it down, I guess you
could say the financial side is similar to
keeping a pet...
You have a multitude of expenses associated
with keeping a pet, that you can't really
expect the pet to reimburse you for.
The costs and care of a pet are just an
inherent responsibility of ownership.

As for the behavioural side, I suppose you could
say that a sub behaving like asset or a liability
are largely for the Dom to sort out.

And like Kana said, what's a slave/sub besides
the ultimate personal assistant.

Any liability type things that i can think of are
along the lines of crazy, psychotic... Things I
couldn't change/fix but have the ability to
adversely effect my nice relaxing life.

On the whole, I don't see a submissive partner
in terms of asset and liability aspects, it's just a
weird way of looking at it.

I suppose you could say that by owning a slave,
she is an asset in so far as, being something you
possess that benefits you. but yer, whatever...

-ARIES


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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 6:55:03 AM   
DesFIP


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I think you're overthinking it. I imagine it applies more to whether or not you're going to be a drama llama and cause them emotional distress that's more than the pleasure they get from you. And that's not sexual pleasure only.

If loving you causes them just a lot of problems, then you're a liability. But people need love, so getting it from another mature adult who not only loves you, but also loves to do things to make you happy, could be the ultimate asset for a dominant.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 7:31:26 AM   
JeffBC


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Man, you're brain is out on left field on this one compared to mine. Here's what I'd mean with the statement:

I want a partner who, on the whole, adds positively to my life rather than detracts from it.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 8:03:12 AM   
sexyred1


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I have to question someone who looks at relationships and people like items on a spreadsheet.

I am an asset to myself and to those who care about me.

If you are talking about having a relationship with someone who makes you feel like crap and adds problems to your life, then yes, that is a liability.

But these concepts are based on any human relationships, not just Dom/sub.

As for the OP's suggestion that the "community" is prone to "needless and extreme hyperbole" and how that is an essential factor to be in the "community", speak for yourself.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 8:09:02 AM   
faeathefaerie


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I am a slave and I say this is a yes AND no answer. Only reason that is because behavior in society, and being disobedient to say ones Master or Dom. Or as my master a pain in his ass lol. However slaves and subs are not liability to them because of any finical or in terms of them getting sick. Reason that is that the Master or Dom has taken full responsibility for them. My master takes care of my needs, because if he doesn't it will effect him. Like if I get sick to point I can't hardly move, if he doesn't get me meds I will just get worse and unable to take care of his needs. So it benefits the Master or Dom to take care of their responsibilities or they will not be taking care of them selves.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 9:56:17 AM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Man, you're brain is out on left field on this one compared to mine. Here's what I'd mean with the statement:

I want a partner who, on the whole, adds positively to my life rather than detracts from it.


I interpret this like Jeff and assume that it's meant to be that way.

However this to me is one of the things which - irrespective of where you find yourself in these sorts of relationships - is best left unsaid. Looking at someone in spreadsheet terms is alien to me, and I feel that if someone says this then perhaps they have a bit of healing/introspection/growth to be getting on with before they start thinking of moving on to the next relationship/dynamic.

As for liabilities, I mean everyone has liabilities.. it's actually learning to deal with the liabilities together which is part and parcel of developing the relationship.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 10:10:51 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

I'm left wondering if you're running across the assets vs liability thing as it pertains to behavior or character or choices rather than in a strictly financial sense? For instance a sub as an asset could be someone whose public persona reflected well on the Dom - someone whose behavior was pleasing. Pleasing of course would mean different things to different people.


This ^^^^^

You taking it absolutely literally in the accountant sense. It's more about if the person is a positive in the relationship.


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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 1:38:12 PM   
littlewonder


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Sorry but I'm not working for a business. I'm in a loving relationship and everything that comes along with it.

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 6:26:14 PM   
SpotBrat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Sorry but I'm not working for a business. I'm in a loving relationship and everything that comes along with it.


I understand. In the D/s relationships I've been in, we were very loving and stressed positivity and bolstering the relationship above everything else. We never treated or referred to our relationship as a business... Well, it happened once. I had to nip that in the bud real quick because that is not my preference.

I was thinking more along the lines of an D/s relationship based off of objectification and ownership- one where love and caring (excluding for satisfaction, maintenance, and training) are not much of a concern. Of course, my example was highly exaggerated in this sense. lol

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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 7:00:48 PM   
JanahX


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I have a problem with this whole post.
I really have a problem with people that look at other people as THINGS. Which is probably why I dont like objectification. I dont resonate with people that are emotionally detached. And when it comes to peoples emotions - I dont believe it is something that one can control like a lot of people like to claim. It is something that is built into us - and the level that someone shows another person is what I think is going on.

To find find a person that gets enjoyment out of being fuck/kink/service robot - is a weird concept to me. And actually volunteering for that and it bringing happiness to someone is beyond me - Just because I guess I dont understand what the high would be. Shit - If I didnt want an emotional response from anyone, then why bother getting with them in the first place? I got johnny dildo all wrapped up in its little pink towel for that.

This is the question that really comes to mind though -

Seeing someone regularly and not care to any level about that person and their well being is disturbing to me. I mean if its a one night hook up - then theres not enough time to develop feelings for that person - but to see and talk to someone on a regular basis? I dont understand how that happens.

I guess I dont see how you could want anyone in your life that you would consider a liability. Not sure how this has anything to do with D/s. I never did understand why treating people like a robot is a BDSM thing.

< Message edited by JanahX -- 7/14/2012 7:02:18 PM >


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RE: Subs Can't be a Liability? - 7/14/2012 7:08:10 PM   
SpotBrat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

I have a problem with this whole post.
I really have a problem with people that look at other people as THINGS. Which is probably why I dont like objectification. I dont resonate with people that are emotionally detached. And when it comes to peoples emotions - I dont believe it is something that one can control like a lot of people like to claim. It is something that is built into us - and the level that someone shows another person is what I think is going on.

To find find a person that gets enjoyment out of being fuck/kink/service robot - is a weird concept to me. And actually volunteering for that and it bringing happiness to someone is beyond me - Just because I guess I dont understand what the high would be. Shit - If I didnt want an emotional response from anyone, then why bother getting with them in the first place? I got johnny dildo all wrapped up in its little pink towel for that.

This is the question that really comes to mind though -

Seeing someone regularly and not care to any level about that person and their well being is disturbing to me. I mean if its a one night hook up - then theres not enough time to develop feelings for that person - but to see and talk to someone on a regular basis? I dont understand how that happens.

I guess I dont see how you could want anyone in your life that you would consider a liability. Not sure how this has anything to do with D/s. I never did understand why treating people like a robot is a BDSM thing.


Objectification is a no-no for me. It's one reason that my last D/s relationship didn't go over well. My Dom liked it to an extent, but emotionally and spiritually it was very draining one someone like me who is very emotionally driven, even if it wasn't complete and true (it was more of a farce he liked to put on when we were in public- he basically wanted me to act like I had no emotions and no input).

I'm sorry the post bothers you. I don't like making people feel uncomfortable. I was just curious about other people's views on the subject.

My deepest apologies.

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Oh yeah? "Good God Guy's Got a Grip!"

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