RE: Taking responsibility.

RE: Taking responsibility. (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/16/2012 7:31:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Could you stop acting like Dominants are some kind of omnipotent creatures who are in control of the people who are submbissive to them and the entire universe as well? quote: ORIGINAL: ARIES83 Sometime things just don't work out and its unfortunate but that' life. Dom or not. quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I have always looked at it as a joint effort. That's the way things work with teams. Not always just leadership or just subordinates to credit for success or failure. However, I am a realist and can squarely credit just leadership or subordinates when that is the case. quote: I feel like the tone of your OP is a bit unrealistic and overly romantic like CastleRealm style D/s fantasy. Here I snipped the relevant pieces here. If you don't give your submissive the tools to succeed and they fail......it's on you since you're the one giving incomplete direction. If you've given your submissive the tools to succeed and they fail.....it's on them since it was either a lack of effort or a lack of asking questions. Sometimes it's a lack of effective communication...which is on both you. Sometimes adults use their free will....which is on the individual. Sometimes things just don't work....which is on the universe.

crazyml -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/16/2012 8:02:52 AM)
Welcome to the boards Mr Lessons! quote: ORIGINAL: Brutalessons Greetings Cm. While I am relatively new to CM and have been enjoying the interactions, both from the interactions with various subs on Cmail and in browsing here on the message board, a strange, and to Me disturbing concept has been brought up... that it is A subs fault that she "failed". To Me as a Dom, I take responsibility for my sub, Claim their successes and growth with deserved pride and Failures... disappointments... how can such not be laid to rest upon My own feet as well? It is I who guide her so if there is a failure, whether it is in achieving a goal or performing a task, or simply meeting My needs it is more of a reflection on My own failure to properly instill, encourage or provide incentive to Meet My expectations. This may well work for your kind of sub, in your kind of relationship - And if it does than all power to you! Personally... I would feel like a little bit of a jackass claiming credit for my sub's success or growth, even if I felt I'd had a major influence in helping her achieve it. Perhaps it's a leadership style thing - I would never dream of claiming credit for the success of the people I manage - when my people are successful it's all down to them, when they're not it's all down to me. For me - that's what "taking responsibility" is all about. The kind of relationship I'm looking for is probably very very different to yours, which doesn't invalidate what you're after for a nano-second, but in the interests of sharing..... I've no interest in having a sub partner who wouldn't take responsibility for her actions. As the dominant party in the relationship, I'd help her deal with the consequences, but fuck me - if she gets a speeding ticket it's not my frikken fault! I expect a level of maturity, independence and intelligence from my sub partners that would make my "taking responsibility" for this like that a total nonsense. So, no... my sub is not a reflection of my own Skill and Mastery, she's a reflection of her own skill and mastery - otherwise I simply wouldn't be attracted to her. Now... the relationship, well for me that'll be a reflection of our combined skill and mastery. I agree, though that it's pretty shitty when pseud-Dom's attract a sub then dump her claiming that it's her fault... they're asshats but... the notion that it's all down to the dom's skill and mastery appears pretty absurd to me. [ETA some dots after "sharing"]

DarkSteven -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/16/2012 8:58:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brutalessons DarkSteven, In the example you gave that would have been a betrayal of Trust and Yes a complete failure lying upon the other persons own actions. Lying is a conscious act of deciept. What I was referring to is in one you Have Fully accepted and brought to Your feet, have used time and patience to build her to Your own ideal... then the whole "Failure" issue arises. Do you Blame the failure upon the Sub whom you have spent the time training, or upon flaws in your own training? Depends. If she does what I say and things go south, it's my fault. If she does not do what I say, there's a reason and I need to find out. If she consistently does not follow me, then it's moot where the problem lies - the relationship will not work.

DesFIP -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/16/2012 9:48:36 AM)
It should be a joint responsibility. If she doesn't tell you when there's a problem, you aren't going to be able to solve it. If however, you don't allow her to tell you when you've fucked up, then she can't explain what's wrong and it's your fault, except that it's her fault for getting involved with you in the first place.

RaspberryLemon -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/16/2012 1:13:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl If you don't give your submissive the tools to succeed and they fail......it's on you since you're the one giving incomplete direction. If you've given your submissive the tools to succeed and they fail.....it's on them since it was either a lack of effort or a lack of asking questions. Sometimes it's a lack of effective communication...which is on both you. Sometimes adults use their free will....which is on the individual. Sometimes things just don't work....which is on the universe. quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Depends. If she does what I say and things go south, it's my fault. If she does not do what I say, there's a reason and I need to find out. If she consistently does not follow me, then it's moot where the problem lies - the relationship will not work. Excellent posts, both very much my line of thinking. Using an offshoot of the stepping stones example provided by lilcracker: If the dominant lays bad stepping stones and the submissive follows those as she's agreed to follow, and it leads her to fall into the water, I can see how that is the dominant's fault for providing faulty direction (and, in some manner on a larger scale, if this faulty direction is a pattern, it is also the submissive's fault for choosing to follow a leader who does not provide good direction.) If the dominant lays the best, most successful, stablest stepping stones in the universe but the submissive chooses to follow different ones and as a result falls into the water, that's the submissive's fault, plain and simple. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, even when they've placed their life into the hands of another who has agreed to take responsibility for them. It is a joint effort.

littlewonder -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/16/2012 1:29:26 PM)
For us, we both take personal responsibility for things that have happened. If it's one fault or the other, then we take responsibility. Sometimes it's neither of our faults and it's what we call a "sin"...falling short of the mark. He refuses for me to take fault in things that clearly are not my fault and personally I don't like to do so either. So we don't do that. Why should we? Now that's not to say there are times when I don't feel like it's my fault for something but we will both sit down and talk it over and figure out if it actually was or not. If it was then I apologize and fix it if I can. If it's not then we deal with it in another way. Simple. I think people who blame themselves for absolutely everything (I was once one of those gals), it's because they grew up in an atmosphere where they were always told it was their fault (such as I was). But when you're with a wonderful partner you quickly learn to overcome that or otherwise you won't be in that relationship for very long. ETA: as for taking credit for successes...depends. If I was stubborn about something and then was ordered to do differently then yeah, he takes credit for the success because if it wasn't for his order there's no way I would have succeeded. That doesn't mean he's not proud of me...he is very much!! But yeah, he has every right to take credit. Other times he gives me my own credit for doing something and accomplishing it well because I did it on my own without his help or from his advice where I wasn't stubborn. Again, he's proud of me, but because I did it on my own without him needing to force or push me.

AineofTx -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/16/2012 8:52:28 PM)
I was told I was one of the "Bad Apple" subs described on the website "Humbled Females". This haunted me for all of about 6 weeks. Then I decided to let us both own our faults and weaknesses, greatness and strengths. I will be the perfect submissive for the right Dominant and He for me. I'm only sad that things ended with the manifestation of pain masquerading as cruel jabs. He wasn't the only guilty one. Next time I will leave before it comes to that. Walk away before you are reduced to crawling...................

deeplove -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 4:13:00 AM)
Sub can fail clearly or could be master faults too ...

Brutalessons -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 7:00:25 AM)
Many thanks to all who took the time to give such reasoned and well thought out responses to this. Just for some small clarification. None of the woman this Post was about are current subs of Mine, rather the comments they made were in somewhat of a disclosure stage of conversation during the first few exchanges of email's and typically on response to questions regarding levels of experience. We all have our Own unique twist on things, and as stated by one poster, I do recognize the "White Knight" syndrome in My style and admit it. It is part of who I am and it can lead Me to tilting at windmills at times, but in the overall It tends to lead Me toward a sense of Protectionism over those I have committed to Dom in the past. This in no way prevents me from "Holding toes to the fire" or setting up firm boundaries and stepping stones. I look forward to reading more from all and putting in My own two cents on occasion.

Lockit -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 8:25:37 AM)
Just a word of caution... Watch out for the little lost lambs that present as having been or about to be put to slaughter. Then tend to be emotional vampires and plan purposely or not, to slaughter you or anyone that plays Knight. Drama and emotional infant-ism have their place I guess... but once you get played enough, by those that live in victim-hood (there is a difference between life challenges and victim-hood and living there) you will see the value of good choices, personal strength and not looking for a savior. Many a Knight, have been unseated by them. Then again, there are those Knights that need or feed off the drama, as they use it to replace something they are lacking.

lizi -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 8:48:59 AM)
Good call Lockit. OP, there have been lots of instances where people get misled by a story or two, some to the point where they believe ridiculous stories of abuse, kidnappings, etc. Knowing that you have a tendency to gravitate to the women who need a White Knight to help them is half the battle. Being aware of your soft spot can help you steer clear of the women who resemble tar pits and will draw you in deeper and deeper while sucking everything out of you.

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 8:52:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Just a word of caution... Watch out for the little lost lambs that present as having been or about to be put to slaughter. Then tend to be emotional vampires and plan purposely or not, to slaughter you or anyone that plays Knight. Drama and emotional infant-ism have their place I guess... but once you get played enough, by those that live in victim-hood (there is a difference between life challenges and victim-hood and living there) you will see the value of good choices, personal strength and not looking for a savior. Many a Knight, have been unseated by them. Then again, there are those Knights that need or feed off the drama, as they use it to replace something they are lacking. This is very true...

JeffBC -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 9:21:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Then again, there are those Knights that need or feed off the drama, as they use it to replace something they are lacking. In my experience, every knight over the age of about 25 or so is needing/feeding on the emotional weakness of the damsel. That's why they go looking for the damsels in distress rather than those who are not currently struggling. Usually this ends up being a mutually parasitic relationship until it crumbles. Those of us who have the protective urge but don't wish to be facing down imaginary dragons every other day learned how to sort it out a long time ago. It's not like there's any shortage of genuinely worthy damsels facing some actual dragon out there.

Lockit -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 9:43:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Then again, there are those Knights that need or feed off the drama, as they use it to replace something they are lacking. In my experience, every knight over the age of about 25 or so is needing/feeding on the emotional weakness of the damsel. That's why they go looking for the damsels in distress rather than those who are not currently struggling. Usually this ends up being a mutually parasitic relationship until it crumbles. Those of us who have the protective urge but don't wish to be facing down imaginary dragons every other day learned how to sort it out a long time ago. It's not like there's any shortage of genuinely worthy damsels facing some actual dragon out there. ROFL! So true! Damn, I am in a little distress myself and where are the knights??? I send them packing... because I want to do it myself! WTH is wrong with me? I think I need to get in touch with my distress damsel! Hehe

OsideGirl -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 9:47:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Just a word of caution... Watch out for the little lost lambs that present as having been or about to be put to slaughter. Then tend to be emotional vampires and plan purposely or not, to slaughter you or anyone that plays Knight. Master calls them "Cinderella subs". He says they have issues controlling and taking responsibility for their own lives so they're looking for Prince Charming to save them from their own lives.

Lockit -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 9:50:17 AM)
Oh! I need to polish off my Cinderella! Got it! [:D] That makes a lot of sense OsideGirl! Pretty fitting!

littlewonder -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 6:31:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Just a word of caution... Watch out for the little lost lambs that present as having been or about to be put to slaughter. Then tend to be emotional vampires and plan purposely or not, to slaughter you or anyone that plays Knight. Master calls them "Cinderella subs". He says they have issues controlling and taking responsibility for their own lives so they're looking for Prince Charming to save them from their own lives. Good description. The only thing I would add though is once Prince Charming finds and fixes Cinderella's broken shoe and she can now walk without a limp, he's off in search of the next princess that needs his help leaving Cinderella to wonder wtf just happened.

KnightofMists -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 7:34:51 PM)
I am not one to buy into this common dogma that Dom is responsible for all in the power dynamics. This type of thinking equates to the sub being responsible for nothing. I kinda like to go with people are responsible for their own actions and enactions. I don't look to try to inflate my ego to qualify my responsibilities are more imporant than my girls either. H2O gives you water. Does that make the hydrogen more important than the oxygen because there is more hydrogen? Frankly if you don't have what is needed you don't have water. That is more or less how I approach my relationships. We give what is needed to have a successful and thriving relationship if you don't then you will fail. And who is responsible is a rather moot point. I am thinking that when one starts to worry or think about who has more responsibilities or who is responsible! You are putting less energy in actually into the relationship and more about me and them instead of We and us. I see relationships as a we venture where those nvolve do what is needed. The three of us have been pretty successful with this kind of approach.

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 10:05:10 PM)
Some of this rings true... especially the damsel in distress and the toxicity. Took me over six years to get out of this type of situation. First the aspects of damaged, vulnerable, hurting which had been revealed slowly. Get the protective instincts out of dormancy... and then when the "control" begins... well hell, how can I trust you? You need to _________, I need _________, you aren't taking care of me? It never ends. It boils down to she is not happy with herself, she is only happy with conflict, she needs and there is no way to bring anything to the relationship. If you do by chance or perseverance meet all the requirements, then the rules change. I will state, that I saw the red flags in my face, that's why they call them red flags after all... and I consciously chose to ignore them, focusing on the glimpses of what "could be" from the beginning. I learned a lot. I learned to trust my own instincts, even beyond any sense of fucking responsibility. That was the biggest lesson.

domincalifornia -> RE: Taking responsibility. (7/17/2012 11:44:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brutalessons Running into a situation where a sub has been "released" or told they are the Cause of a failed D/s one time can be an anomaly but I have had very similar conversations with no less than 4 subs in the past weeks who have expressed this concept. Is it Me who is seeing this in the wrong light? Is not your sub a reflection of your own skill and Mastery? Dude, in the real world, things don't always work out. Sometimes people don't click or they get bored of each other or whatever. That's as true in a sub-domme relationship as a vanilla one.

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