Has anybody read this ? (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> Has anybody read this ? (7/16/2012 4:32:50 AM)

Did a search and couldn't find this so I thought I'd pass it along. This pretty much defines the current tax situation and we know already what happened...don't we ?

“. . .While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as “carried interest,” thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they’d been long-term investors.

“These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It’s nice to have friends in high places. . . .


" “ . . . Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. It’s a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot.

"“Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends. I didn’t refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. . . ."


". . .Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008 . . . the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

"I know well many of the mega-rich and, by and large, they are very decent people. They love America and appreciate the opportunity this country has given them. Many have joined the Giving Pledge, promising to give most of their wealth to philanthropy. Most wouldn’t mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering...

"I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

"But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It’s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice."

Warren Buffett, August 15, 2011

The Buffett Rule passed in the Senate 51 - 45. The Republicans fillibustered it.
(this kept the bill OFF the senate floor for a vote to make it law) It takes 60 votes to break 'filibuster' which is of course unconstitutional.




Fellow -> RE: Has anybody read this ? (7/16/2012 9:19:24 AM)

Regarding the general ideology, taxing the rich would cure the problems the country is experiencing:
I was listening a few days ago one of the Obama appearances. He came out with the good idea: trickle-down economy is not working, let us build the economy from bottom-up. However in the next sentence he ruined the idea by in essence saying: the way to do it is taxing the rich. So, if taxing the rich is a solution, the government would be interested the rich to make even more money (the tax revenue will raise in proportion). The government is interested people to smoke more because of high tobacco tax revenue.
Personally, I think Ron Paul ideas are better: let us create poor the opportunities to earn decent living. The rich should be taxed more, at least the current tax rates should be collected and the loopholes eliminated. However, it does not solve the chronic welfare police state problems.




MrRodgers -> RE: Has anybody read this ? (7/16/2012 9:43:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Regarding the general ideology, taxing the rich would cure the problems the country is experiencing:
I was listening a few days ago one of the Obama appearances. He came out with the good idea: trickle-down economy is not working, let us build the economy from bottom-up. However in the next sentence he ruined the idea by in essence saying: the way to do it is taxing the rich. So, if taxing the rich is a solution, the government would be interested the rich to make even more money (the tax revenue will raise in proportion). The government is interested people to smoke more because of high tobacco tax revenue.
Personally, I think Ron Paul ideas are better: let us create poor the opportunities to earn decent living. The rich should be taxed more, at least the current tax rates should be collected and the loopholes eliminated. However, it does not solve the chronic welfare police state problems.


Good ideas until the end with the old' welfare state' canard. Add it up throughout history and corporate welfare far outstrips welfare to the poor. Add to that the canard of taxing the rich c u r i n g ALL of our problems. NOBODY has said that...ever.

What has been debated by those in an honest one, is the tax rates. There is no reasoning or justification for three definitions of income...solely for tax avoidance.

When we read of how low taxes are on the rich it is because they have purchased through our plutocracy...a preferential tax RATE for income otherwise known as either capital gains or carried interests.

This is just as described by Mr. Buffet and long known to the great investor class and for about 30-40 years. One European actuary said that the richest 20% of Americans didn't pay about $1 trillion in taxes for the cost of the cold war and because of tax code favoritism.

They also are not paying for the two wars now being wound down. ALL of us (taxpayers) are much more deeply in debt because for those wars while many made millions in war profits...much of it taxed at less than your tax...kapish ?





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