Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (Full Version)

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losttreasure -> Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/8/2006 7:51:36 PM)

It only takes a little browsing through the profiles to note that many who are seeking a long-term relationship will make sure that their profiles reflect just that.  Some even go to the point of spelling out their expectations for a no-holds barred, unlimited lifestyle, complete with detailed descriptions of desired activities and lists of limits, and defining just how they view the realities and boundaries of that long-term relationship.

But consider, please... when dating in the vanilla world, do you approach a potential new date with a soliloquy about how you are only wanting to see people who are looking for a lifelong relationship?  With a list of what you will and won't do, both sexually and non-sexually?  And point out expectations for how your life together will be?

While we might have the ultimate goal of meeting our life's partner when dating, we typically allow those relationships to grow more organically, and make a decision to commit only after a gradual progression of familiarity.  If we took the same "go for the gold" approach that many do here through their profiles, it wouldn't surprise me to see most potential partners run screaming.

I wonder if we don't do ourselves a disservice by being so honest and up front about what it is we seek?

~*~


In a sacred, official, traditional, ancient ritual ceremony, styled after those performed throughout the ages by our primeval forebearers in the secret lifestyle, Sir Lord Grand Master Dom Flash in the Pants (aka FirmhandKY) has presented me with his "collard of consideration", complete with extreme, ne plus ultra protection to guard against my being commandeered or otherwise appropriated away from his august, exalted, illustrious, and sublime presence.    [;)]



juliaoceania -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/8/2006 7:59:40 PM)

This is a very good list of questions....

do you approach a potential new date with a soliloquy about how you are only wanting to see people who are looking for a lifelong relationship?
Yes I did state this on vanilla sites and was asked out by like minded people.

With a list of what you will and won't do, both sexually and non-sexually? 

No I did not do this on vanilla sites because frankly it is not allowed, and that audience would be offended, and rightly so. I joined sites like this one when I was looking for a reason, because I could not find what I needed on vanilla sites.


And point out expectations for how your life together will be?
No I never posted this much detail on my profile anywhere. That is for emails, phone calls, and then actual dates.. this gets discovered over time and compromising takes place for the right individual.

I think honesty about what we seek makes it more likely that we will find it... but that is just me and I could be wrong...




KnightofMists -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/8/2006 8:01:47 PM)

Honesty is not a disservice... it's the inability to be adapative to captilize on relationships opporturnities that have the potential to bring oneself happiness and growth



littlesarbonn -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/8/2006 8:02:27 PM)

On every first date, I bring along a standard prenuptual, a blood test and a form for her to fill out so that I can conduct an extensive background investigation.

For some reason I can't put my finger on, there hasn't been a second date.



pinkee -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/8/2006 8:07:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

It only takes a little browsing through the profiles to note that many who are seeking a long-term relationship will make sure that their profiles reflect just that.  Some even go to the point of spelling out their expectations for a no-holds barred, unlimited lifestyle, complete with detailed descriptions of desired activities and lists of limits, and defining just how they view the realities and boundaries of that long-term relationship.

But consider, please... when dating in the vanilla world, do you approach a potential new date with a soliloquy about how you are only wanting to see people who are looking for a lifelong relationship?  With a list of what you will and won't do, both sexually and non-sexually?  And point out expectations for how your life together will be?

While we might have the ultimate goal of meeting our life's partner when dating, we typically allow those relationships to grow more organically, and make a decision to commit only after a gradual progression of familiarity.  If we took the same "go for the gold" approach that many do here through their profiles, it wouldn't surprise me to see most potential partners run screaming.

I wonder if we don't do ourselves a disservice by being so honest and up front about what it is we seek?

~*~


In a sacred, official, traditional, ancient ritual ceremony, styled after those performed throughout the ages by our primeval forebearers in the secret lifestyle, Sir Lord Grand Master Dom Flash in the Pants (aka FirmhandKY) has presented me with his "collard of consideration", complete with extreme, ne plus ultra protection to guard against my being commandeered or otherwise appropriated away from his august, exalted, illustrious, and sublime presence.    [;)]


There is a difference between r/l dating -- vanilla or D/s -- and a profile on CM.  Naturally O/one's goals may suffer false starts, or even be frustrated entirely, when dependent on the actions of O/others.
 
pinkee



Padriag -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/8/2006 8:21:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

But consider, please... when dating in the vanilla world, do you approach a potential new date with a soliloquy about how you are only wanting to see people who are looking for a lifelong relationship?  With a list of what you will and won't do, both sexually and non-sexually?  And point out expectations for how your life together will be?

I suppose it depends on how the submissive reads that.

It could be read as a statement of that persons goals, intentions and where they are going in life, where they want to go. 

Or it could be read as a statement of demands that the submissive would have to immediately accede to.

I would imagine that both are true in different cases.  But equally, neither is universally true.



cloudboy -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/8/2006 8:40:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

It only takes a little browsing through the profiles to note that many who are seeking a long-term relationship will make sure that their profiles reflect just that. Some even go to the point of spelling out their expectations for a no-holds barred, unlimited lifestyle, complete with detailed descriptions of desired activities and lists of limits, and defining just how they view the realities and boundaries of that long-term relationship.

But consider, please... when dating in the vanilla world, do you approach a potential new date with a soliloquy about how you are only wanting to see people who are looking for a lifelong relationship?


Hmm, I have the urge to repeat myself.



MasterKalif -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/8/2006 10:54:02 PM)

while I agree that it is a "catch 22" thing, I am here particularly because I can be upfront about what I like...vanilla dating to me never led to me to anything I wanted, and unfortunately, I seem to attract those "good girls" that think that missionary sex is "filthy" or that dont seem to enjoy sex at all....let alone a M/s relationship.....therefore, in this situation, I support the fact that it has to be open s that none of us waste time....however I think you are referring to the fact that the fun of a relationship is getting to know the person, exploring together etc...and as such in this lifestyle you can do that too, you dont have to give away all your preferences I think of right away....I dont know if I explained myself fully.



Kedikat -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 12:14:06 AM)

Considering the more specific nature of this realm of searching for a mate, it makes sense to state some particular things up front.
Of course you may never meet the one that fits them all. But you may find a wonderful one that is close enough. I consider all the average wants and desires to be obvious. I add some particular ones that count in vanilla as well. Then add the ones that pertain to BDSM.
It is the whole package of course. But why not do the courtesy of the fullest profile? Things in my profile are not all carved in stone. But do inform.



meatcleaver -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 12:30:43 AM)

When I hear that new subs apparently get inundated with messages from doms, I am always surprised because I don't think I have seen a profile I would approach because I often think subs want far more than they appear to be worth. Maybe this is true of doms too but I never read their profiles. I have no intention of contacting anyone anyway but if I was looking I still don't think I would contact anyone with a list of demands, it's unrealistic as it is unreasonable. Added to that, most of the relationships I have had and valued I wouldn't have had if I expected people to fullfill my expectations and wants. I also can't see the point of people putting down their sexual preferences apart from the obvious ones because sexual dynamics are going to depend on the personalities of the two people and develop accordingly irregardless of what people put on their lists of wants.



eroticangel -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 2:13:06 AM)

i think that posting what we seek is a way to weed out the people that are unacceptable. When they read our profile they know certain things about us and what we seek. If there is something that they like they respond. If there is something there they don't like they don't or maybe they question us about it. i still think honesty is the best policy in all aspects of life.



bandit25 -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 2:21:36 AM)

I  can see both sides, but I ttend to go with more information.  Like julia said, "I think honesty about what we seek makes it more likely that we will find it... "  I don't necessarily see what we include in our profiles as a list of demands, but more as a way of letting others know what we like and would like to find.



fullofgrace -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 2:27:43 AM)

i don't think this has to do so much with the fact that cm is a bdsm site, but with the fact that it's a personals site.

i was discussing this issue with a friend of mine recently who's on match.com (and vanilla). she was complaining that she felt like she was sort of obligated to go out with people and that she was continually evaluating them for relationship material based on her list of things she likes.

i see this as a two-sided issue:

one, it's great that we can start out with a laundry list of things we want in a person and go from there. we might be more likely to get SOME of the things we want than just regular dating offline and without personals.

but...this also means that we tend to only look at those within our parameters, and if we ARE searching, everyone we meet is a potential mate. we look at them as potential mates, not human beings, more often than not - or as both, but we DO include potential mate. and since the anonymity of the internet allows one to easily learn whole lists of sexual kinks of someone they'd look at offline and never know about until perhaps well into a relationship, it changes the whole way we approach people. he HAS to have scat, and that's my hard limit, so i won't message him. she hates knife play and that's my main kink so i won't put my energy there. or he likes shibari, but even though it's not required for him, i still want to put my energy with someone who likes shibari. so in this case, it's a good thing, but also a bad thing - because maybe knife play is more negotiable than you think because this is someone you REALLY  click with - but you'll never know, because you've skipped over their profile. or maybe you just missed a really good relationship, or at least friendship, because you're searching for people who are way into shibari.

i mean, it changes the whole scope of how people relate. no longer can not-so-likely relationships develop into friendships as often because they're just discounted immediately based on a list of criteria. i don't know. if my Dominant and i had been on a personals site, we probably would have never connected with each other, and we would have missed out on what has been the most amazing five or six months of both of our lives, in some ways. and people are always so eager to pursue a relationship or talk about sexual stuff, whereas if we were offline, there'd be SOME discussion of other things. most of the messages i get are from people who only want to discuss...sex. and even if i were here and looking, that still throws me off, because there's more to a friendship and a relationship. and it's impossible for me to be in a relationship with someone i haven't become friends with first...i'm not as likely to build trust.

it's late adn i'm not making much sense, but i hope some of that was comprehensible :)  



IronBear -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 2:33:12 AM)

I don't se it is being a catch 22 more that any other avenuse of our life and especially on the employment market. If I expect a potential employer to lay his cards on the table from the beginning, I expect to be able to do the same. Waists less time and allows for specific discussion points. Neither can I agree with it "being the inability to be adapative to captilize on relationships opporturnities that have the potential to bring oneself happiness and growth". for it does open you more to the attentions of those with whom you are more likely to desire a relationship with. However if you are not looking for a LTR then you don't want to be inundated with contacts with those who have nothing in common either. Perhaps I'd not go into some detail regarding about future expectations which could easily be discussed at the first or second meeting... Really depends on your available time and how selective you want to be initially..





meatcleaver -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 2:55:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eroticangel

i think that posting what we seek is a way to weed out the people that are unacceptable. When they read our profile they know certain things about us and what we seek. If there is something that they like they respond. If there is something there they don't like they don't or maybe they question us about it. i still think honesty is the best policy in all aspects of life.


I don't think it has anything to do with honesty. Ones perception of oneself will be different from the perception someone else has of us. While the author of a profile might think they are being honest, someone who approaches them might consider them anything but (aceppting facts are facts). Trying to find someone for a relationship is like firing at a moving target from a moving position. To have a fixed position is shortening ones odds on finding someone, with the possiblity of missing out on the one person that could make them happy.



subrob1967 -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 5:46:35 AM)

Isn't compatibility profile matching the reason eHarmony is so sucessful?

I see nothing wrong with letting people know up front what you're looking for.



meatcleaver -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 5:55:07 AM)

I don't question the intention, I just wonder how successful it is. I think with such sites as eHarmony they are matching social backgrounds, incomes, religions, race etc, not kinks. People on the whole do match up with people in the same social circle. Just reading the threads on CM, it appears trying to find someone with compatible kinks is not so easy, especially given that each person has their own perception of what a particular kink is.



foxnotinsox -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 6:27:06 AM)

quote:

when dating in the vanilla world, do you approach a potential new date with a soliloquy about how you are only wanting to see people who are looking for a lifelong relationship?  With a list of what you will and won't do, both sexually and non-sexually?  And point out expectations for how your life together will be?


Ummmm ... no, I don't. While I ultimately seek a Partner, I am not so naive to believe that there is out there for me an "Insta-Dom". Indeed, I need to know a person first .. and say that I would not want to close the door on what could be a "fiendship" =) as opposed to a "friendship".

I do not list any sexual proclitivities on my bdsm profiles, although I do state I will not cyber. On my vanilla profile, I state that I am into bdsm.

As for expectations in a long-term relationship, I provide an outline ... the details would be filled in after negotiations. Sure, I have a few thoughts on how it would go, and I seek someone whose ideas are close to mine .. so there is greater possibility that we would mesh. For if basic ideals are different, the relationship is doomed.

quote:

I wonder if we don't do ourselves a disservice by being so honest and up front about what it is we seek?


Yes and no. If we pinpoint our desires, we close a lot of doors and lose the chance to get to know one another. This raises the risk of starting somethat that is not good.

Yet at the same time, it narrows the field. If I did not state that I was into bdsm on the vanilla sites, then I would have to screen that many more people. And of course there are the HNGs and wankers .. umm everywhere .. who are put off by the detail in my profile and "don't" send a message. Yeah sure I get the spammers, but they are easy to spot and easy to block =))

Screening is good .. gosh! I think I'd be overwhelmed otherwise =) ... yet I am open to some conversations, if our outlook on life is similar. Pen pals, if you will (heheh or more specifically if I  will) .. Friendship seems to be a lost art, as is being social. And yes, one never knows .. even with long distance thingies, transfers are always possible heheh

Have a wonderful day!



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 7:37:37 AM)

losttreasure,

One of the things that makes our kind of relationships different from vanilla is that they are stuctured. In an effort to be open and honest as well as to find someone who will match our structure, some of us indicate what it is that we want, ultimately. For me, that's long term Master/slave service-based relationships that include spirituality and SM and, possibly, sex.

Yes, I do put out there what I expect in a vanilla relationship. For me, even those relationships are structured. If you'd care to see, feel free to check out my myspace profile. you can find it using masterfire as the screen name. Granted, it really, really cuts down on the number of responses, but so does my profile here on collarme. Both are designed to filter out those who will not be matches right off the bat so that I don't have to do that myself and waste both my time and the other person's time.

I had a very similar profile to the myspace one on Adult Friend Finder. I met a man who has become a friend and lover there. He's very special and we enjoy our relationship. I also met some other really nice guys there, even if those relationships didn't last. That's ok; I don't expect every relationship to do so.

Master Fire



composer83 -> RE: Is This A Relationship Catch 22? (6/9/2006 8:36:25 AM)

yeah......there's nothing wrong with being upfront & honest.....but it is also important to save some of those 'lists' for later dates.....& there is a lot of fun to be had in finding those things out about eachother.......



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