RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 11:59:09 AM)

pats you on the head....




Lucylastic -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:00:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

June 2012.

A month ago.. end of the semester?


The semester ended in May.


I don't know if there's much difference in higher ed culture in the USA to that of the UK, but PhD students often don't take a lot of notice of academic years here. Their work is that solitary.

I gots confused*again* due to the fact my daughter has been taking classes all summer at uni.....




Musicmystery -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:09:12 PM)

quote:

I don't know if there's much difference in higher ed culture in the USA to that of the UK, but PhD students often don't take a lot of notice of academic years here. Their work is that solitary.


Once a student is ABD (all but dissertation), it's independent work until facing their dissertation committee.

And the period spent previously studying for their comprehensive exams.





Sanity -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:19:55 PM)


"Big Gun" [:D]

You crack me up some times

I think I may have found you a new mantra

Every war can be a war for big gun... assuming "war for oil" ever sounds old, tired, and worn out to you

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah, I can hear it now, "Obama's coming for your guns!" just like he hasn't for the past four years.

When will these guys realize the gun industry is playing them for profit?





Musicmystery -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:22:30 PM)

War for oil has sounded old, tired, and worn out to me as long as we've been fighting them.




Marini -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:32:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

pats you on the head....


If nothing else, you have to admit BenevolentM has some very interesting opinions and theories.

He is a one of a kind sort of guy.




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:34:35 PM)

This was sad news to wake up to this morning.

What will happen politically?

Nothing.

The Second Amendment and its network of supporters who believe in the broadest definition of the right possible, will never stand for greater restrictions on guns and ammunition.

But here is the thing. This young man, obviously intelligent and deeply troubled, bought 4 guns and 6000 rounds of ammunition within the last two months. Even a semi-automatic allows 50-60 rounds within one minute. One minute. Those who think he could cause similar damage without guns are completely misguided. Yes, that's why we send combat troops out to battle with just knives. NOT.

The Second Amendment reads as follows: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The travesty is that given the way the amendment is written, it does suggest that people should have access to weaponry that is of "militia" quality. The whole purpose of the amendment was to avoid a situation where the government could suppress the people because of superior weaponry. Obviously today, in a world of tanks, conventional and nuclear bombs, and incredibly sophisticated technology and weaponry, etc., this whole notion really doesn't make sense anymore. I mean, does anyone really think that anyone has weaponry/arms similar in totality to what the government has within its entire militia?? But changing this will necessarily require a constitutional amendment. And I don't see that happening, even in the wake of this tremendous tragedy.

Americans need to get used to the fact that people, even seriously disturbed people, have access to guns, and ammunition, every hour of every day. The amazing thing is that this type of thing doesn't happen more often. But every time it happens, I keep thinking, when might all hell break loose? What would it take to tip the balance and have blood pouring down the streets? The weaponry exists for it to happen today. And I would be hard pressed to say that everyone who possesses a firearm in this country is "sane" (whatever that means anyway). Not to mention that as the culture wars continue, I often wonder if those who think nothing of say killing a doctor who performs abortions in order to achieve their political beliefs, will simply just take up arms against all the rest of us, period.

Guns and crazy people. Not a good mix. And we have plenty of both.....[sm=2cents.gif]




Lucylastic -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:34:57 PM)

smirks




Lucylastic -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:47:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

This was sad news to wake up to this morning.

What will happen politically?

Nothing.

The Second Amendment and its network of supporters who believe in the broadest definition of the right possible, will never stand for greater restrictions on guns and ammunition.

But here is the thing. This young man, obviously intelligent and deeply troubled, bought 4 guns and 6000 rounds of ammunition within the last two months. Even a semi-automatic allows 50-60 rounds within one minute. One minute. Those who think he could cause similar damage without guns are completely misguided. Yes, that's why we send combat troops out to battle with just knives. NOT.

The Second Amendment reads as follows: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The travesty is that given the way the amendment is written, it does suggest that people should have access to weaponry that is of "militia" quality. The whole purpose of the amendment was to avoid a situation where the government could suppress the people because of superior weaponry. Obviously today, in a world of tanks, conventional and nuclear bombs, and incredibly sophisticated technology and weaponry, etc., this whole notion really doesn't make sense anymore. I mean, does anyone really think that anyone has weaponry/arms similar in totality to what the government has within its entire militia?? But changing this will necessarily require a constitutional amendment. And I don't see that happening, even in the wake of this tremendous tragedy.

Americans need to get used to the fact that people, even seriously disturbed people, have access to guns, and ammunition, every hour of every day. The amazing thing is that this type of thing doesn't happen more often. But every time it happens, I keep thinking, when might all hell break loose? What would it take to tip the balance and have blood pouring down the streets? The weaponry exists for it to happen today. And I would be hard pressed to say that everyone who possesses a firearm in this country is "sane" (whatever that means anyway). Not to mention that as the culture wars continue, I often wonder if those who think nothing of say killing a doctor who performs abortions in order to achieve their political beliefs, will simply just take up arms against all the rest of us, period.

Guns and crazy people. Not a good mix. And we have plenty of both.....[sm=2cents.gif]

Sharing with you an article I found this morning
How Long will We let the National Rifle Association and Corrupt Politicians Kill our Children?

Posted on 07/20/2012 by Juan
Police in Aurora, Colorado say that they do not think that James Holmes had an accomplice.

Of course he had an accomplice. He had lots of them. He had much of the gun lobby and much of the US Congress as accomplices.

Police are said to be puzzled how Holmes got off so many rounds so fast– killing 12 people and wounding dozens in only 2 minutes.

Holmes used an AR-15 military style semi-automatic assault rifle with a special ammunition drum attached that held 100 rounds of ammunition. It is made by Colt’s Manufacturing Company. It was originally made for the US military by Colt’s military division, and only later introduced to the civilian market. (Nutty proponents of these weapons maintain that they are incorrectly called “assault weapons” and that this phrase should be reserved for fully automatic weapons like machine guns. They should please tell the people in that theater in Aurora that Holmes did not have an assault weapon, and explain how he could have shot so many so fast with an ordinary hunting rifle.)

So why can crazy people buy military style assault weapons in the United States? Why can drug gangs stockpile these weapons. Why do America’s streets, malls, theaters and campuses turn so easily into shooting ranges with mass casualties?

I just saw Joe Johns on CNN tell Wolf Blitzer that Holmes “purchased the guns” used “legally” and that given that Holmes had no criminal record, this is “seemingly a situation very difficult to legislate against if you will.” He added, “Bad people do bad things.”

Joe Johns and Wolf Blitzer are either cowards on this issue or on the take. CNN just played the typical corporate blame game of ensuring that individuals take the rap for corporate misbehavior. Pollution is a matter of individual personal responsibility, not the coal industry. Global warming is caused by you and me, not by Big Oil.

Likewise, President Barack Obama called what happened a “tragedy,” as though it were a tornado instead of purposeful action by a human being who was turned into a one-man SWAT team by what is available in gun shops. And Mitt Romney said he loves America. In other words, move along. Nothing to see here.

Of course legislation could be passed banning assault weapons and their drum ammunition attachments.

In fact, there was a Federal ban on assault weapons, from 1994 to 2004, passed by Congress and signed by Bill Clinton. Unfortunately it could only be passed through putting in a sunset provision that it was in effect for 10 years and would have to be renewed. Presumably the sunset provision gave the opponents of the bill hope, and dissuaded them from trying to block it, and gave cover to the congressional representatives who took money from the gun lobby.

Without an assault weapon, Holmes would not have been able to kill and wound so many people so quickly.

Then House speaker Tom DeLay and his Republican majority (along with a few pusillanimous Democrats) made sure that the assault weapons ban was not renewed in 2004, and he was backed in this atrocity by the National Rifle Association. NRA-backed Republicans and some Democrats have kept it off the legislative agenda ever since. Although some NRA leaders have sometimes said they wouldn’t any longer oppose an assault weapons ban, these statements are likely merely for public consumption. We know who killed the ban in 2004. The question is what the lobbyists say privately when they meet with Congressmen to bribe or threaten them.

What is worse, having these powerful weapons freely available is an excuse to further militarize local law enforcement and to “up” “security” in public spaces. Tolerating criminal weaponry means we have to get rid of the Bill of Rights. You can’t have freedom of assembly if the assembly has assault weapons. Police have to be as well or better armed than the gun nuts. And so peaceful protesters get attacked by police in assault gear, as though they were Marines landing in Tripoli.

Look, folks, with Citizens United and other rulings of the Supreme Court, it is clear that the United States has formally become a plutocracy, and with the failure of all campaign finance reform laws, we are stuck with our so-called representatives actually being paid agents for a handful of big corporations.

The only way to get an assault weapons ban is to embarrass the people who aid in flooding our country with these dangerous arms. You don’t hunt deer with them. They have no legitimate civilian use. Nobody would suffer from their unavailability but drug gangs and homicidal maniacs.

Colt’s Manufacturing Company, which makes the AR-15, should be asked in public letters from survivors and relatives of the dead victims, which included little children, if they will voluntarily stop selling the AR-15 in the civilian US market. Congressmen blocking the assault weapons ban should be identified and monitored on web pages. Victims of these weapons need to organize, the way Mothers against Drunk Driving did. The Occupy Wall Street crowd, which suffers from the militarization of law enforcement, should give some thought as to how to embarrass the enablers as well.

We should borrow some techniques from the anti-abortion lobby and put up graphic pictures of the victims, the little children with bullet holes in them.

We are back to the medieval era, folks, when powerful barons did as they pleased with the peasants. We have to put up with mentally ill people like Holmes having free access to assault weapons because Lord Colt and Lord DeLay and various dukes and counts derive a profit from these weapons. They are getting rich off the dead children. Only if the peasants get restive will they stop being serfs and get any rights.

I was warned by a friend not to write this entry. I have friends and relatives who have been threatened or suffered vandalism by NRA supporters for speaking out or even just for a bumper sticker on a car. But I’m almost 60, I’ve had a full life, and I am getting crotchety. Some things need to be said.
http://www.juancole.com/2012/07/how-long-will-we-let-the-national-rifle-association-and-corrupt-politicians-kill-our-children.html#comments




Marini -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 12:48:11 PM)

ftp, my thread topic is, what are the political implications NOT what will happen politically.

There are already all sorts of political implications.

ALREADY, the shooter was accused of being a tea party member.

ABC corrects reports of shooter tea party news

The gun control issue is front and center due to the mass shootings.

This massacre will be used to promote many political issue's and agenda's on both sides of the aisle.

In our 21st century world, almost anything that happens that becomes a major news event, has political implications.




atursvcMaam -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 1:01:41 PM)

Here it is, pass a law that says you can't sell guns to crazy people, and then redefine crazy people as anyone who would want to own a gun for any reason. Then set up a law where crazy people can be locked up indeterminately to be evealuated and retrained or terminated. I think i saw this in a bunch of sci-fi books and shows.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 1:07:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Here it is, pass a law that says you can't sell guns to crazy people, and then redefine crazy people as anyone who would want to own a gun for any reason. Then set up a law where crazy people can be locked up indeterminately to be evealuated and retrained or terminated. I think i saw this in a bunch of sci-fi books and shows.


This ... perfectly illustrates one of the issues with the gun control argument. The lefties don't necessarily dislike guns; they look down their noses at people that do like guns. They dislike the people . How insidious is that?

I think we need even more laws aimed at people we dislike or did the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act negate that kind of behavior?



Peace and comfort,



Michael




Musicmystery -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 1:09:12 PM)

quote:

This ... perfectly illustrates one of the issues with the gun control argument. The lefties don't necessarily dislike guns; they look down their noses at people that do like guns. They dislike the people . How insidious is that?


Actually, it perfectly illustrates the persecution fantasy the gun lobby has sold.

Every time this issue comes up, sales of guns and ammo go up. Amazing coincidence.





LadyHibiscus -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 1:09:48 PM)

Fifty one sets of gun laws.

As I said on the closed thread, our civil rights in the US have been eroded more and more in the past twelve years. The things I am hearing from clients...just scary stuff, apocalyptic opinions and visions of a very precarious future. It will be a snap for the gun lobbies to push for fewer controls, just to hold back the encroaching police state.

I never seriously thought of leaving this country, until this year.




Owner59 -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 1:27:45 PM)

Scum is as scum does.....


"Anti-Obama group raising money off events related to Colorado shooting"




http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/anti-obama-group-raising-money-off-events-related-220753856.html




Marini -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 1:34:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Scum is as scum does.....

"Anti-Obama group raising money off events related to Colorado shooting"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/anti-obama-group-raising-money-off-events-related-220753856.html



I tell you, people are reaching new low's every day.
What makes this event so bad is, the tragedy just happened 48 hours ago.
How low can you go?




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 1:36:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

ftp, my thread topic is, what are the political implications NOT what will happen politically.

There are already all sorts of political implications.

ALREADY, the shooter was accused of being a tea party member.

ABC corrects reports of shooter tea party news

The gun control issue is front and center due to the mass shootings.

This massacre will be used to promote many political issue's and agenda's on both sides of the aisle.

In our 21st century world, almost anything that happens that becomes a major news event, has political implications.


I'm not sure I see a distinction between political implications, and what one might do to address them.

To me, the only political implication from this incident is that of the Second Amendment, and what we collectively do about it.

There are hundreds of other implications raised by what happened, including why were 6-year olds at a midnight showing instead of safe at home in bed, but I quite frankly don't see any of those topics as being pertinent as the obvious biggie. If you are looking for more nuanced analysis of all of the specific details of this incident, it won't be coming from here. I don't see that this shooting raises any other issues that any kind of mass shooting like this would typically raise. I, personally, see nothing in these set of facts that make it any different from any "wacko with gun takes others' lives". So, I apologize - not trying to de-rail thread, but I personally don't have any more nuanced comments than what I already put forth.

Hope the rest of you enjoy debating the various raised "implications".....[:)]






Marini -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 1:39:14 PM)

quote:

Hope the rest of you enjoy debating the various raised "implications".....


lol, we are!




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 2:00:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

Hope the rest of you enjoy debating the various raised "implications".....


lol, we are!


I may not be reading everyone's comments properly but most seem to fall in the "gun control" category - which is the Second Amendment. And I stand by what I said. What will happen as a result of this incident. NOTHING.

But everyone can enjoy yet another debate on the topic of gun control. [:D]





Lucylastic -> RE: Political Implications of the Colorado Shootings? (7/21/2012 2:07:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Scum is as scum does.....

"Anti-Obama group raising money off events related to Colorado shooting"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/anti-obama-group-raising-money-off-events-related-220753856.html



I tell you, people are reaching new low's every day.
What makes this event so bad is, the tragedy just happened 48 hours ago.
How low can you go?

ABC suggested it, they were wrong, it is lousy reporting, not even close to being journalism, even with the retraction but yes, the TP response is expected.
Scummy scummy scummy




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