Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With?

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Somethi... - 7/22/2012 8:01:24 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

"One definition of madness is to repeat the same thing over and over and expect a different result. If that’s true, then our inability to regulate guns in this country is barking mad crazy. Every time someone gets shot–Trayvon Martin in Florida, Gabby Giffords in Arizona, the High Schoolers in Columbine, and now movie goers in Aurora–there is understandable outrage and…nothing. Nothing really changes and the statistics are clear: Tens of thousands of Americans die every year from gunshot wounds. And guns are at the heart of the problem. According to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

•An estimated 41% of gun-related homicides and 94% of gun-related suicides would not occur under the same circumstances had no guns been present (Wiebe, p. 780).
•Higher household gun ownership correlates with higher rates of homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings (Harvard Injury Control Center).
•Keeping a firearm in the home increases the risk of suicide by a factor of 3 to 5 and increases the risk of suicide with a firearm by a factor of 17 (Kellermann, 1992, p. 467; Wiebe, p. 771).
•Keeping a firearm in the home increases the risk of homicide by a factor of 3 (Kellermann, 1993, p. 1084).

We’re from the NRA and we’re here to make you safe. Fear is what fuels the NRA. Fear that big government will somehow abrogate your second amendment rights; fear that the Muslims are coming to institute Sharia law; and fear of the other, like those who are simply different from you. The NRA preys on that fear, and uses it to ensure that gun regulations aren’t put in place. But they hide behind a smokescreen of…safety. The NRA’s argument is that guns make us safer. NRA head, Wayne LaPierre has said as much:

“I wouldn’t stand before you today if I didn’t believe, and I couldn’t prove, that our common-sense policies can have a more immediate impact on violence, and make more citizens safer, than anything that anyone else is proposing.”

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07/22/why-is-the-equivalent-of-a-911-every-six-weeks-something-that-americans-can-live-with/

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

Post #: 1

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 1:15:08 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"One definition of madness is to repeat the same thing over and over and expect a different result. If that’s true, then our inability to regulate guns in this country is barking mad crazy. Every time someone gets shot–Trayvon Martin in Florida, Gabby Giffords in Arizona, the High Schoolers in Columbine, and now movie goers in Aurora–there is understandable outrage and…nothing. Nothing really changes and the statistics are clear: Tens of thousands of Americans die every year from gunshot wounds. And guns are at the heart of the problem. According to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

The conclusion that folows your premis is wrong. Consider gun ownership in cuba and switzerland is greater than the u.s. and their homicides are not similar so you have tried to create a false equivilancy.
Now to "brady"wasn't he the mouth piece for a republicrat?

quote:

•An estimated 41% of gun-related homicides and 94% of gun-related suicides would not occur under the same circumstances had no guns been present (Wiebe, p. 780).

There are easier and less messy ways to suicide(check with your local hemlock society) and it is none of anyones bussiness if someone decides they are done with what they have.
The homicide one is funny it reads clearly that in 59% of gun homicides the victim would still be dead of a gushot with no guns present

quote:

•Higher household gun ownership correlates with higher rates of homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings (Harvard Injury Control Center).

Are they comparing u.s. residents to u.s. residents or are they comparing u.s. residents to other countries with high gun ownership?

quote:

•Keeping a firearm in the home increases the risk of suicide by a factor of 3 to 5 and increases the risk of suicide with a firearm by a factor of 17 (Kellermann, 1992, p. 467; Wiebe, p. 771).

What is wrong with suicide??? "They soot horses don't they?"

quote:

•Keeping a firearm in the home increases the risk of homicide by a factor of 3 (Kellermann, 1993, p. 1084).

Retroactive birth control.

quote:

We’re from the NRA and we’re here to make you safe. Fear is what fuels the NRA. Fear that big government will somehow abrogate your second amendment rights; fear that the Muslims are coming to institute Sharia law; and fear of the other, like those who are simply different from you. The NRA preys on that fear, and uses it to ensure that gun regulations aren’t put in place. But they hide behind a smokescreen of…safety. The NRA’s argument is that guns make us safer. NRA head, Wayne LaPierre has said as much:

There are those who would disagree with you. They would point out that the left is just as vociferous as the right at trying to get everyone to believe that they have something to fear.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 2

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 1:21:47 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

there is understandable outrage and…nothing. Nothing really changes

yeh thats because the rest of us have rights.

is that ok with you?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 3

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 1:24:57 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

"Equivalent of a 9/11 every six weeks"? Hyperbole has reached new heights.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 4

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 1:25:43 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

•Keeping a firearm in the home increases the risk of homicide by a factor of 3 (Kellermann, 1993, p. 1084).

Retroactive birth control.

Looks to me like he is trying to claim its the guns fault. LOL

not the loony who pulled the trigger.

O59 move out to the country where people understand these matters and get away from the over medicated losers in the city

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 5

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 1:50:20 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

This may seem off topic, but it's not.

In the US, 48 million cases of food borne illnesses occur each year.
128,000 people are hospitalised and 3,000 people die.
http://www.foodborneillness.com/

And largely this happens because We, The People, allow it.

We have never sent mass communications to TPTB and demanded E Coli 0157:H7, Salmonella and Listeria be kept out of our food supply and so our current laws and regulations allow it, with our full permission.

In essence, by the choices that we make, the people we elect and the degree of personal involvement we decide to participate in, we do make the laws.

If we want things to be different, we need to complain less and participate more.

The same goes for our levels of gun control.
There is no reason why some guns need to be on the streets...and plenty of reason as to why they should not be.

There is no reason for crazy people to have access to them, and yet, too often they do.

It is not unreasonable for laws to be enforced, loopholes to be closed and semi-automatic weapons to be off limits except for law enforcement use.

But as long as the majority continues to sleepwalk through our collective responsibilities nothing is going to change.

If nothing changes, NOTHING changes.

We need to stop living by default.

Edit: add link

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 7/22/2012 1:54:05 PM >

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 6

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 1:59:53 PM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/
I am guessing a bit here, but i get quite confused with the pro choice/ anti gun crowd. This looks like more lost here than to gun violence or 9/11. Do you prefer victims that can't or won't shoot back?

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 7

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:01:11 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
It is not unreasonable for laws to be enforced, loopholes to be closed and semi-automatic weapons to be off limits except for law enforcement use.

Is semi-automatic really what you mean here?

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 8

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:04:19 PM

lovmuffin

Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

There we go again. The answer is to make an entire class of firearms off limits.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 9

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:07:01 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

According to an economics book I am reading, small, well-funded, highly organized industries lobby the US Congress the most effectively. This is why so many counter-intuitive public polices exist.

In the USA, the NRA, combined with passionate gun owners and colorable Second Amendment protections exercise much more influence over gun policies than the general population. Only when the general population becomes more passionate will the balance change, but there aren't enough gun deaths in the US to trigger this.

The Columbine and Aurora shootings are not equivalent to 9/11 because each event comes across as localized and perpetrated by nutcases. 9-11, conversely, was viewed as a national attack perpetrated by a well organized terrorist group with a history of violence and continuing terrorist plans.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/22/2012 2:13:44 PM >

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 10

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:11:20 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Do you prefer victims that can't or won't shoot back?

That is why they are called victims.

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 11

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:13:38 PM

KittyCali

Posts: 169
Joined: 6/3/2012
Status: offline

the people that mow down crowds with hi powered weaponry used to be the ax murderers back in the day .... it slowed them down ....

_____________________________

“Have you ever noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely!” R.A. Heinlein

;-)

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 12

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:14:43 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
It is not unreasonable for laws to be enforced, loopholes to be closed and semi-automatic weapons to be off limits except for law enforcement use.

Is semi-automatic really what you mean here?

Would a trap door springfield qualilfy as semi-auto?

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 13

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:19:54 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

According to an economics book I am reading, small, well-funded, highly organized industries lobby the US Congress the most effectively. This is why so many counter-intuitive public polices exist.

Sounds like an interesting book; thanks for the heads-up!

Some years ago, a friend was the research assistant for a book called The Best Congress Money Can Buy. Incredibly eye-opening!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 14

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:23:52 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Since most americans dont have guns, and have no interest in them, they don't feel like they have a dog in the fight.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 15

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:33:05 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/
I am guessing a bit here, but i get quite confused with the pro choice/ anti gun crowd. This looks like more lost here than to gun violence or 9/11. Do you prefer victims that can't or won't shoot back?

Not at all, I grew up with guns and shot my first firearm (with guidance from dad) before I was 7.
At one time I had a firearm in the place I was living for personal protection.

However, many people who own them for protection have never actually taken a gun safety course.
Too many people are killed in their own homes by their own guns.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/michael-bayless-fatally-shot-by-3-year-old-son_n_1675803.html

By the time I would have been old enough to find a gun in the house (in other words, they were very well secured), my dad had taught me to treat every gun as loaded.

I choose not to own a gun now, but when I did, I was a responsible gun owner.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 16

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:41:04 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

"Equivalent of a 9/11 every six weeks"? Hyperbole has reached new heights.

Indeed.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 17

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 2:45:20 PM

KYsissy

Posts: 781
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittyCali

the people that mow down crowds with hi powered weaponry used to be the ax murderers back in the day .... it slowed them down ....

The latest wingnut was very intelligent and had extensive booby traps in his apartment. If he didn't have access to guns it is very possible that he would have still carried out his plan using bombs. When you have a determined intelligent wingnut, they will find a way. If an individual is willing to die in the process, there is almost nothing anyone can do to stop them.

The gun culture is not the problem. Thug culture is the problem. When it becomes acceptable, even revered, to settle small altercations with gunfire, senseless killings ensue.

The people I know have enough weapons to equip a platoon. Most have concealed carry permits. Most very rarely ever carry. Most are ex military. Some have avoided becoming a victim of street crime because they had a weapon. ALL are upstanding men and women who would make great neighbors.

_____________________________

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

(in reply to KittyCali)

Post #: 18

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 4:20:16 PM

Just0Plain0Mike

Posts: 127
Joined: 6/16/2010
Status: offline

I had two incidents like this. Where I was the target of a mugging or car-jacking, and defused the situation just by exposing the grip of my pistol. So even though I'm one of the psycho gun-owners the OP seems to be harping on, I used my weapon to resolve a potentially dangerous situation without anyone being injured.

(in reply to KYsissy)

Post #: 19

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Som... - 7/22/2012 5:02:37 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

Its a general economics book, offering an economic perspective on various issues. One concept it put forward that I never knew about was about two kinds of regulatory systems, one known as "the giving hand" and other as "the taking hand."

In giving hand regulatory structures, the regulators are motivated by public policy and rule of law. The book points out one of the things foreigners most envy about the USA is its rule of law and regulatory structure. Business cannot thrive without strong legal enforcement of laws and regulations, and good governance promotes investment and public confidence in the private sector.

In taking hand regulatory structures, regulators are corrupt and want to enrich themselves by seeking bribes from the regulated. Such practices are common in places like Nigeria and Russia, and the poor enforcement of regulations and the public knowledge of widespread corruption contribute to the underdevelopment of each nation.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With?

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.108