RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:07:52 AM)

Since St. Wrinklemeat proved that deficits don't matter....

Does this mean that they were for it before they were against it, or that they were against it before they were for it?

I have no idea how an innumerate's mind fails them. Hep a bruddah out.




Sanity -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 5:34:17 PM)


News flash

Conservative fiscal policy doesnt mean tax and spend

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And the really pathetic thing is that people who don't have a clue how to pay for this stuff have the brass neck to call themselves "fiscal conservatives". WTF?





Sanity -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 5:43:13 PM)


You scream about the party of magic money thread after thread

Yet your guy (who promised to halve the deficit) extended the Bush tax cuts while his deficits were spiraling out of control, arguably to the point of no return. To the point of a deficit Armageddon

And now he is throwing trillions more that we dont have for Obamacare on the bonfire, and his spending spree just keeps growing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You dont "fund" tax cuts, thats like saying a burglar needs to fund money he changes his mind about stealing. Again, we see someone from the left approaching a citizens private belongings as if all of our private holdings belong to the government, as if we citizens are a slave class to be casually exploited by the ruling class.

As far as the military goes, that is the one thing that the Constitution authorizes Congress to fund, and without it there could be no nation and therefore citizens to tax. With that said I would like to see Europe fund more of our joint defense, as we carry a disproportionate share of the burden.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

governments thirst for excessive spending.


Take it to Reagan, who started the unfunded spending, and Bush II, who brought it back.

You want tax cuts? Fund them. You want to blow even more money on the already bloated military? Fund it.

Because money isn't magic.




Yet before they were cut, those taxes were funding something. Same with the military--argue for it, but fund it.

Stuff doesn't pay for itself. You want things but you don't have funding.

Party of Magic Money. Perhaps your Fairy Godmother will bring it.

"We need more military" and "Return the money to the people" doesn't pay for stuff--it defunds it, and worsens the structural deficit.






Musicmystery -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 7:14:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


News flash

Conservative fiscal policy doesnt mean tax and spend

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And the really pathetic thing is that people who don't have a clue how to pay for this stuff have the brass neck to call themselves "fiscal conservatives". WTF?



We know that. It means BORROW and spend, while cutting taxes and expanding the military without funding either.




Musicmystery -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 7:15:31 PM)

quote:

extended the Bush tax cuts

which I oppose(d)

quote:

while his deficits

from continuing the Bush policies

Many times, I've noted he's Bush Lite.


Mitt wants to double down on the Bush approach.

No No No No No No No No No No No.

Bush on Steroids.

I'll have to settle for Bush Lite, with comes with health care, finally.





Sanity -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:01:30 PM)


Most leftists dont have even the first clue about what conservatism is... [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


News flash

Conservative fiscal policy doesnt mean tax and spend

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And the really pathetic thing is that people who don't have a clue how to pay for this stuff have the brass neck to call themselves "fiscal conservatives". WTF?



We know that. It means BORROW and spend, while cutting taxes and expanding the military without funding either.





Musicmystery -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:08:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Most leftists dont have even the first clue about what conservatism is... [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


News flash

Conservative fiscal policy doesnt mean tax and spend

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And the really pathetic thing is that people who don't have a clue how to pay for this stuff have the brass neck to call themselves "fiscal conservatives". WTF?



We know that. It means BORROW and spend, while cutting taxes and expanding the military without funding either.



Because there hasn't been any in over 30 years.




Sanity -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:13:36 PM)



Unemployment under Bush averaged what, 5%?

bush on steroids sounds pretty good at this point

A little MORE conservative (hell, a LOT more conservative) would be nice

Obamas the opposite of that though, and he lied to us about his plans to trim the deficit, cant trust him.

Nope, time to give someone else a chance, cant fuck it up any more than the Liar-In-Chief did

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Mitt wants to double down on the Bush approach.

No No No No No No No No No No No.

Bush on Steroids.

I'll have to settle for Bush Lite, with comes with health care, finally.







Sanity -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:16:29 PM)


Right, weve lurch way left. We agree.

Time to find our way back, and we should start by booting the liar who is in there now

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Because there hasn't been any in over 30 years.





slvemike4u -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:17:40 PM)

Is that how you choose your guy ?
The "it's time to give someone else a chance"selection ?
I give more thought to which ice cream to buy !




Real0ne -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:18:47 PM)

lot of good it does when you dont count the ballots




Musicmystery -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:33:49 PM)

quote:

Unemployment under Bush averaged what, 5%?

bush on steroids sounds pretty good at this point


Before he crashed the economy he was handed by creating long term structural deficits.

Doing even more of what caused that is the definition of insanity.

Conservative? More unfunded tax cuts and more unfunded military expansion to further balloon national debt?

You have no clue what a Conservative is, Puppet. Dance! Your Masters are singing!




Sanity -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:46:04 PM)


Before the Frank / Dodd / Dem housing for everybody who couldnt afford it fiasco that Bush tried to head off crashed it... (primarily)

The definition of insanity is putting these crony bastards (including Obama) back in when we have a chance to throw them out

What have they fixed? The poverty rate has never been higher, has it. Obama guaranteed unemployment wouldnt go over 8%

Said he didnt deserve reelection if the economy was this bad four years in

Guess what, he was right

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Unemployment under Bush averaged what, 5%?

bush on steroids sounds pretty good at this point


Before he crashed the economy he was handed by creating long term structural deficits.

Doing even more of what caused that is the definition of insanity.

Conservative? More unfunded tax cuts and more unfunded military expansion to further balloon national debt?

You have no clue what a Conservative is, Puppet. Dance! Your Masters are singing!





Musicmystery -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:50:59 PM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D888RaAMtIU

More Magic Money! More unfunded tax cuts! Even more military spending! The money will just magically appear!

Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow Borrow




Lucylastic -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/26/2012 9:57:55 PM)

You have missed all the news about the banks fucking up the mortgages, discriminating against certain groups and all the other bullshit???
Just how long did you think that the recession took to build? how long before 2006 were hundreds of companies in trouble and having to think about closing, tossing 8 million out of work
how long were you expecting the recession to take to bounce back??? Once the full crap of the numbers fell, Obama was the first to say that it would be a long road back.
And all the repubs have done is stall, deny and dismantle anything possible, and what have they come up with, how long have they had the house, where are the jobs??
oops no more job help, but all the savings are in the caymans, but not in the unemployed peoples accounts.





Moonhead -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/27/2012 4:41:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Most leftists dont have even the first clue about what conservatism is... [:D]

This "leftist" appears to have a much better idea about that than borrow and spend neocons like yourself.




Sanity -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/27/2012 5:49:30 AM)


No, Obama said "Yes we can" before he started saying its private business, which he built, and owns, thats not paying dearly enough. Said you dont raise taxes in a recession then passed the biggest tax increase ever on the middle class, in the form of Obamacare. The Dems had full control of the government long enough to pass whatever they wanted and they just added on more spending

Trillions more in new debt despite promises to cut the deficit

"Yes we can" watch the poverty rate grow under Obama

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

You have missed all the news about the banks fucking up the mortgages, discriminating against certain groups and all the other bullshit???
Just how long did you think that the recession took to build? how long before 2006 were hundreds of companies in trouble and having to think about closing, tossing 8 million out of work
how long were you expecting the recession to take to bounce back??? Once the full crap of the numbers fell, Obama was the first to say that it would be a long road back.
And all the repubs have done is stall, deny and dismantle anything possible, and what have they come up with, how long have they had the house, where are the jobs??
oops no more job help, but all the savings are in the caymans, but not in the unemployed peoples accounts.







MrRodgers -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/27/2012 5:55:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

As I understand it, one of the big problems is that corps that have international holdings are majorly taxed on any money they earn outside the US if they bring that money into the US.. so it is simply kept outside the US.. Imo, if the money is earned outside the US then the US should have no right to tax it (especially since it would have been taxed in the country that money was made).. But then I come from a country that does not tax based on citizenship as the US greedily does.. so I believe taxing based solely on residence is the only right way for a country to tax.. The US way of taxing is a major reason why I would never become an American citizen...

If the US changed that and instead of grabbing 35% of corp money (brought back to the US) and took say 10%, then imo you would see a lot of that offshore corp profits come into the US and create more jobs here.. and some corps have stated that publicly in various articles I have read, they want to bring at least some of that money and create US jobs but it makes no financial sense to do so.. So the US essentially shoots itself in its foot..

As far as people with offshore accounts, where do they live? If they live outside the US, then again, imo that money should not be taxed by the US.. People with enough money can buy a second citizenship and then renounce their American citizenship, which they are doing in greater numbers. In 2008, only about 200 Americans gave up their citizenship, in the last year that number has jumped to over 1,800.. Its a global world, the US has competition..

I know nothing of how the UK or Australia taxes so my opinion is only about the US tax system which tends to be draconian imo.. as this article of IRS revising its rules shows..

"The Internal Revenue Service today issued new rules granting a penalty break to some U.S. expats and dual citizens who have been unfairly caught up in the harsh U.S. crackdown on secret foreign bank accounts and offshore tax evasion. The relief will help middle class folks who have been living for years in high tax foreign countries such as the United Kingdom, and particularly the estimated one million Americans living in Canada."

JMO
[sm=2cents.gif]

The US has the 3rd lowest...yes, lowest overall tax regime of the entire western, industrialized world.

As for jobs, taxes have no influence on job creation. Jobs are created where the cost to do so is least, i.e., China, Vietnam etc. where labor can be had for a song.

The result is that the fortune 500 for sure maybe the '1000' has not created a single net new job in the US in over 50 years. Over those 50 years we have seen an approx. 2/3 reduction in business and corporate taxes.

Furthermore, the west taxes labor at 2 to 2 1/2 times that of capital which also compounds the borrowing necessary to pay for bailouts, guns and corporate welfare.

The US is currently enjoying the lowest tax regime in 60 years while 'enjoying' the largest spending in 60 years.







MrRodgers -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/27/2012 6:10:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


News flash

Conservative fiscal policy doesnt mean tax and spend

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And the really pathetic thing is that people who don't have a clue how to pay for this stuff have the brass neck to call themselves "fiscal conservatives". WTF?



Give it up man. There are no conservatives at all in Washington. Conservatives were never slave to a theory, they are pragmatic, meaning they pay for defense build-ups, wars, drug benefits etc., they don't borrow and spend.

Conservatives led the opposition to an income tax and almost exclusively favored strictly business receipts tax for all federal revenue.

Conservatives steadfastly argued against Reagan's deficit spending and every single one I've talked with said we had no business whatsoever in invading Iraq and maybe even to the extent we did...Afghanistan.

Still, once done, you pay for it you do not cut revenue and then borrow for it.





MrRodgers -> RE: $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts (7/27/2012 6:17:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Unemployment under Bush averaged what, 5%?

bush on steroids sounds pretty good at this point


Before he crashed the economy he was handed by creating long term structural deficits.

Doing even more of what caused that is the definition of insanity.

Conservative? More unfunded tax cuts and more unfunded military expansion to further balloon national debt?

You have no clue what a Conservative is, Puppet. Dance! Your Masters are singing!

Averages are pablum. After $trillions in 2 tax cuts, elimination of 63 federal regulations (1st term) after Bush's 8 years there were fewer people working than in 2001 when he was sworn in.

Then after Obama's election 1 million more jobs lost before he was even sworn in.

Thanx repubs, for making the choice a very stark one but for the propaganda of the money-drenched right, almost none of which...are real conservatives.









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