Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 6:53:59 AM)

I think the Vatican is wrong and the nuns are aligned with Jesus's teachings by 1. focusing on helping the poor and 2. not worrying about homosexuality.

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/25/157356092/bishop-explains-vaticans-criticism-of-u-s-nuns

Four years ago, a Vatican group called "The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" began an assessment of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, a member organization founded in 1956 that represents 80 percent of Catholic nuns in the United States. The assessment was designed to take a careful look at whether the nuns were acting in accordance with the teachings of the church.

In the assessment, the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said the leadership conference is undermining Roman Catholic teachings on homosexuality and birth control and promoting "radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith." It also reprimanded the nuns for hosting speakers who "often contradict or ignore" church teachings and for making public statements that "disagree with or challenge the bishops, who are the church's authentic teachers of faith and morals."

Bishop Leonard Blair of Toledo, Ohio, is the bishop who assessed the Leadership Conference of Women Religious. Along with Archbishop Peter Sartain and Bishop Thomas John Paprocki, he will be working with the nuns of the LCRW to make sure the group is aligned with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. The bishops and the nuns' group leaders were also told to develop material "that provides a deepened understanding of the church's doctrine of the faith."

Sister Pat Farrell, the president of the LCWR, talked with Fresh Air's Terry Gross on July 17. Farrell addressed the major criticisms of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, including the LCWR's decision to abstain from taking a public position on abortion, contraception and women's ordination.

Blair tells Fresh Air that the LCWR is "promoting unilaterally new understandings, a new kind of theology, that is not in accordance with the faith of the church." He says he would like to have a dialogue with the LCWR to "educate and help the sisters appreciate and accept church teaching and to implement it in their discussions, and try to heal some of the questions or concerns they have about these issues."

Interview Highlights

On the LCWR not taking a hard-line stance on abortion


"I recall something that Pope John Paul II said: He said that all other human rights are false and illusory. If the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and condition of all personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination ... to relativize or say, well the right to life of an unborn child is a preoccupation with fetuses or [it is] relative in its importance, I cannot agree with that, and I don't think that represents the church's teaching and the focus of our energies in trying to deal with this great moral issue."

On the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic church

"I think that the sexual abuse scandal is a great shadow over the church and over the hierarchy that we have to live with. But we also have to keep going on as a church with integrity. ... We certainly have cracked down on sexual abuse and made great strides to understand it and prevent it."

On the dialogue that the LCWR would like to have with the Vatican

"If by dialogue, they mean that the doctrines of the church are negotiable, and that the bishops represent one position and the LCWR represents another position and somehow we find a middle ground about basic church teaching on faith and morals, then no, I don't think that's the dialogue the Holy See would envision. But if it's a dialogue about how to have the LCWR really educate and help the sisters appreciate and accept church teaching and to implement it in their discussions, and try to heal some of the questions or concerns they have about these issues, that would be the dialogue."

"We do recognize the validity of natural family planning but not artificial contraception. And admittedly, that involves more of a personal investment as a couple or individual, but that would be based on the moral grounds of what church teaches about marriage and human sexuality."

On the ordination of women

"The church doesn't say that the ordination of women is not possible because somehow women are unfit to carry out functions of the priest, but because on the level of sacramental signs, it's not the choice that our Lord made when it comes to those who act in his very person, as the church's bridegroom. And you can say that sounds like a lot of poetry or you know, how do we know that's true, but if you're a Catholic, this is part of our sacraments and practice for two millennia, and it's not just an arbitrary decision of male oppression over women."

On the importance of women in the church

"It's very important for me to say that the history of religious women in the United States is absolutely outstanding, and that one of the most disconcerting things about recent reports is to suggest that somehow that the bishops or the Holy See are not grateful or supportive for the work of religious women. They have done tremendous work in our country and throughout the world. If anything, part of our concern is precisely for their diminished numbers and their aging population. ... We hope there would be revitalization of religious life for women."




Owner59 -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 7:25:14 AM)

I heard an interview with a LCWR leader where she said that her and her members wern`t about to let conservatives tell them how to live,pray or work.

Good for them.




kalikshama -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 7:37:26 AM)

The Unitarian Universalists would be delighted to have them, and they wouldn't be barred from leading services either.




Owner59 -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 8:01:36 AM)

In a thousand and one ways....the cat is already out of the bag.

This effort from Rome is pretty desperate and assumes the nuns will submit.

Ain`t gonna happen.

The nun was asked a few times about what would happen if they didn`t submit and she said pretty much nothing.Ultimately she acknowledged that they could be tried as heretics in Rome......

So goes the culture war.......which the conservatives know and fear they will lose.

With their "we own everything and you" attitude,when they lose, they are going to lose ugly.





mcbride -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 8:23:20 AM)

A whole lot of the coolest, most committed women I've ever met were nuns, and they know perfectly well that very large organizations will have some toads. They knew that when they chose to dedicate their lives to living their faith, and they knew it when they issued their papers on those issues.

I don't know how many would abandon all that, and be chased away from the good that they do because a few more toads pop up. A few will, perhaps, and I wouldn't blame them after so much frustration, but most are in it for the long haul, and they have the support of most Catholics.




kalikshama -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 8:27:56 AM)

The nun-stream media long convinced the world nuns were harmless, levitating scamps, but Samantha Bee finds evidence of a pope-defying, insubordinate variety. (04:00)




crazyml -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 8:37:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I think the Vatican is wrong and the nuns are aligned with Jesus's teachings by 1.


The nuns are obliged to be aligned with catholic dogma, which is the Catholic churches "approved" interpretation of the bible and church tradition.

<Not that I'm saying it's a good thing..>




Owner59 -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 10:16:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I think the Vatican is wrong and the nuns are aligned with Jesus's teachings by 1.


The nuns are obliged to be aligned with catholic dogma, which is the Catholic churches "approved" interpretation of the bible and church tradition.

<Not that I'm saying it's a good thing..>


Not really....

The nuns are basically upholding and honoring the Second Vatican Council....

Where as the new group of conservatives in a few leadership positions are trying to impose pre-Vatican II ways of doing things.

The conservatives.....actually blame liberalism and progressives for their pedophile scandals..... even though it wasTHEY that enabled,hid and promoted those acts and their perpetrators.

That`s the level of immaturity and dis-honestly we`re dealing with.




tweakabelle -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 9:47:39 PM)

Is this more evidence that the Catholic Church is merely a boys club, where dressing up is the name of the game?




mcbride -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/27/2012 10:50:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Is this more evidence that the Catholic Church is merely a boys club, where dressing up is the name of the game?


No, not unless you dismiss the enormous contributions of those nuns, and half a billion Catholic women.




DarkSteven -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/28/2012 4:32:13 AM)

I cannot believe that this group has been independently interpreting doctrine for forty years unimpeded and just now the Church notices.

I admired John Paul II. He was a tremendous man and worked actively to foster ground-level activity and rebuild the Church from the bottom up. He reached out to other cultures and other geographies.

Ratzinger, since his coronation, has been actively trying to squelch off the energy that JP II had engendered in the grass roots. He's trying to return the Church to the Byzantine model of having everything dictated from on high.

Politically speaking, Ratzinger is committing a boneheaded act. He has the golden opportunity to get the input of a bunch of women from the US who have independently interpreted doctrine through their own eyes and beliefs. Anyone competent would be engaging in a respectful debate and trying to understand their viewpoints while articulating his, and setting up an ongoing interchange to ensure that cross-pollination of thoughts. Instead, he's going to yell and scream at the nuns' representatives and bluster his way through. If he screws it up badly enough, he could alienate some of the nuns. The Church cannot afford that, as most of their donations come from the US (yeah, I know. The Church is about money in addition to faith).

What a small, mean-spirited man.




thishereboi -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/28/2012 4:48:15 AM)

quote:

I think the Vatican is wrong and the nuns are aligned with Jesus's teachings by 1. focusing on helping the poor and 2. not worrying about homosexuality.


I totally agree with this. I hadn't heard of LCWR but it sounds like they have their shit together. I hope they continue to stand strong.

Thanks for sharing the article.

It's just a shame that there are some who can't comprehend that there are liberal homophobes in the catholic church as well as conservative and will turn this into another right = evil thread.




thishereboi -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/28/2012 4:49:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I heard an interview with a LCWR leader where she said that her and her members wern`t about to let conservatives tell them how to live,pray or work.

Good for them.



Do you have a link for that?




Real0ne -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/28/2012 7:00:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

With their "we own everything and you" attitude,when they lose, they are going to lose ugly.






they do own everything.

The king of england gifted to the church back in the days when the monarchy had bishops on staff where the king drew up a compact and deeded all the holdings past, present and future of england to the church.

The church to this day retains those compacts.

The underlying titles for everything on the planet are held by the aristocracies and the church.

We have law and equity, law is the king, equity is the church, try and defeat that when you talk about the separation of religion and state LOL

They even have the title to your cars and the most you can ever be in america is the trustee.

~american suckas




kalikshama -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/28/2012 7:45:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Is this more evidence that the Catholic Church is merely a boys club, where dressing up is the name of the game?


No, not unless you dismiss the enormous contributions of those nuns, and half a billion Catholic women.


***I'm*** not being dismissive but the Vatican sure seems to be.






mcbride -> RE: Bishop Explains Vatican's Criticism Of U.S. Nuns (7/28/2012 10:28:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
***I'm*** not being dismissive but the Vatican sure seems to be.


I know you're not. I agree with some of what Steven had to say, but don't underestimate the nuns, and don't forget that they're in it for the long haul.

The Vatican knows perfectly well it needs those nuns to run the churches, the hospitals, the schools, and the shelters, so beyond the fact that it's crappy strategy and unfair to the nuns, this verbal sabre-rattling actually encourages me, because it's a reminder that they had an impact on issues like Obamacare, where they're far closer to American Catholics than the bishops. And yes, it's hard not to notice who seems to have a better grasp of Catholic theology.




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