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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 11:59:14 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Yup. It's difficult or even impossible to explain what severe depression feels like. It can be literally unbearable.


One can often convey a sense of it by pointing out that people that have experience with both tend to rank things like chemo and large area third degree burns as being easier to bear. I've had some say it's worse than rape, but not enough to say anything very conclusive. It's not as if people that have dealt with both particularly relish the idea of revisiting both to rank them. If it does hold, though, that would make for a more effective and visceral way to convey things to people that have no grounds on which to get it.

There's a few people out there I'd like to (assuming it were legal and all) kill with a pair of tweezers, but I wouldn't want them to go through the depression I've dealt with. That's hard to convey, but not hard to admit. Either, really, for the people in question. I figure it might give an idea, though. And I know the scale doesn't stop at what I experienced, though for practical purposes one doesn't differentiate much higher than that.

Explaining what it feels like is pointless. Explaining the severity and differentiating it from merely being sad, however, can be useful.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 12:11:28 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The fact that she's not concerned about losing the wrong memories indicates otherwise. There's no way I'd ever consent to someone electrocuting my brain. Just thinking about it gives me the willies.


Read the entire thread.
No one is advocating getting zapped just because someone is feeling a bit blue.

But if one is depressed and you have tried all the medication options and they aren't working, then ECT is probably a better option than suicide.
This isn't a first line treatment; this is last line defense.




This. Go back and read the entire thread. If you don't get it then you have never suffered from debilitating depression that you either get to choose between living a life that has you walking around as a zombie or killing yourself and finally being free of the pain.

And yeah, I understand you just don't like me defiantbadgirl. I'm ok with that, really lol. You're not that important to me. Actually you aren't at all. lol


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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 12:14:38 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		I really do think that people experience it differently, and I do wish that the "professionals" who do the screening were a bit more open to... anything at all.

Many years ago, I knew I need a different doctor. I was in very bad shape, to say the least, in spite of my tough love family. I gathered myself up with my not-inconsiderable will, put on outside clothes, and got myself down to the center at the hospital. Where I was told that I was "not sick enough". I asked if I had come in in a bloody nightgown, would that have been proof? Evidently, yes.

I am not sure exactly how I looked that day... but I looked at the stapler on that man's desk, and thought hard about leaving a dent in his frontal lobe. I told him that I was not leaving until I got an appointment. And I got my appointment. And I didn't get arrested, because it's never a good day to be arrested. (my doctor is very good, too, I'm still with him)

Having grown up surrounded by death, illness, and similar entertainments, I am not sure if I can compare a physical illness to a mental one. What's it like for my "fiancees" who are bipolar? I told my doctor once that I wished I were manic, because I thought that's how regular people felt all the time. He explained that really I would do stuff like cash out my bank account and drive to Alaska on a whim. Which wouldn't be terribly practical.

I'm actually a happy person, people like being around me, I laugh all the time, and make other people laugh. My life is pretty spectacular. It's hard to explain that you can be depressed and happy at the same time! Every day, chop wood carry water, eh?



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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 12:20:17 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		People always think I'm happy and laughing but what they don't know is that it's usually a mask, a facade. It's a way for me to cope most of the time. That's not to say that I have good days where I am actually happy, but there are days where it's just to not let others feel as if they have to just tolerate me. Most people don't see what's underneath the smile and laugh. Unfortunately I can't hide it from Master. He always knows. Sometimes I'm not so thrilled with that lol.

ETA: ok and my daughter. She usually knows too and that's only because she suffers the same thing I do and has even worse where it was killing both of us when she was young.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 7/30/2012 12:21:32 PM >

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 12:42:05 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		It was a facade for me for many years. It took a tremendous amount of mental readjustment to get where I am now! Breaking lifelong patterns, and not allowing myself to get sucked into the atmosphere of negativity I live in, setting boundaries, "changing my mind".

That does not mean that I get up thrilled to be alive. I have no idea what that must be like. But at least waking up isn't a DISAPPOINTMENT, the way it was much of the time.

I create my reason for living based entirely on other people. I wish I could focus on doing things for myself, but it's really not there, and might never be. (actually I wish I could just plain FOCUS!) I make it up as I go along. Now I am planning for a "future", as well as having that misspent youth that I was too busy to have at the time.

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 12:44:07 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		You sound like me right now lol. Master is trying to get me to break my past habits of negative thinking and seeing everything as a disappointment. It's not easy though and like you, I'm now looking to the future and trying to get some of my childhood back that I never really had lol. It's been interesting so far and very very frightening and confusing at the same time.


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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 12:57:25 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

a gunshot will kill you most likely.

ECT gives you a chance to live a normal life again and rarely ever causes death. I've yet to hear anyone being killed by it, at least not in these modern times. I would rather have certain memories lost than having to live in a deep dark hole for the rest of my life.



So people suffering from the effects of ECT get to choose which memories they lose? And you think I come across as a creepy weirdo.


You misunderstand. People opting to try ECT are choosing between life and death. Better the loss of some memories than all of them.

I don't own guns, I just would close the garage door with the car running and hope to die before being found.

And yes, if you think not being somewhat damaged but still alive to raise your children is the wrong choice, and killing yourself which also puts them at a 5 times greater than average risk of doing the same is the right one, then the word I would pick to characterize you isn't freaky but a lot more harsh.

However as I don't want a gold note, I shan't spell out my opinion of your opinions.


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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 1:01:53 PM   
wittynamehere


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls
Has anyone had any first or second hand experience with this sort of therapy in regards to treating depression?

Administered it for years. I found it was over prescribed by doctors, but the treatment itself is a good one, as long as the patient is SEVERELY depressed and nothing else worked.

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 1:02:39 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

You sound like me right now lol. Master is trying to get me to break my past habits of negative thinking and seeing everything as a disappointment. It's not easy though and like you, I'm now looking to the future and trying to get some of my childhood back that I never really had lol. It's been interesting so far and very very frightening and confusing at the same time.




My mom, and my grandmother before her, are queens of negativity, but of course she is being "realistic". It's no wonder I surround myself with cheerful people!

Being other-centered means that I lived a lot of my life to make other people happy, and while that was not a bad thing, it's my turn now. I had a very loving childhood, was never hungry, just your regular working class ethnic family. Learning to set boundaries was freakin difficult!! Getting the validation I needed to do that was one of the useful bits I got from therapy. I had my mom come to a session, and my therapist was literally aghast. Which made me feel kinda bad, my mom's not a monster after all... Anyway, it's important to know where your edges are.

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 2:38:15 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You misunderstand. People opting to try ECT are choosing between life and death. Better the loss of some memories than all of them.


Hey, if you've tried everything else, and you're willing (and able) to give informed consent, then go for it.

But not everyone consents to ECT.. the proportion of ECT procedures that are given w/o consent of the patient is growing in the UK (largely driven by a decline in the number of people consenting to it).

Personally... I think it's a barbaric, unscientific and pretty fucked up treatment. But it does appear to work in some cases (just as lobotomies and trepanning had some positive results) and if I were at the end of the road... I might give it a try.




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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 4:50:07 PM   
angelikaJ


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Status: offline 		Modern ECT

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 4:51:06 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 4:53:02 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		thanks angelikaJ

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 5:37:48 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

I was in very bad shape, to say the least, in spite of my tough love family. I gathered myself up with my not-inconsiderable will, put on outside clothes, and got myself down to the center at the hospital. Where I was told that I was "not sick enough". I asked if I had come in in a bloody nightgown, would that have been proof? Evidently, yes.


Ya, last time my brother had to fight with the police before he was taken seriously >_<.

Not expressing homicidal or suicidal ideation got him discharged too early; expressing this plus assault and battery on the police got him in the hospital for 6 months, way more time than he needed to recover from his psychotic break.

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 5:40:40 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Learning to set boundaries was freakin difficult!! Getting the validation I needed to do that was one of the useful bits I got from therapy.


Yay for boundaries and validation!

(I swear the universe sends me narcissists to teach me to learn to set boundaries.)

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 5:43:28 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

a gunshot will kill you most likely.

ECT gives you a chance to live a normal life again and rarely ever causes death. I've yet to hear anyone being killed by it, at least not in these modern times. I would rather have certain memories lost than having to live in a deep dark hole for the rest of my life.



So people suffering from the effects of ECT get to choose which memories they lose? And you think I come across as a creepy weirdo.


dbg, are you really that ignorant?

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 5:44:46 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		I wonder if that guy at the hospital know how close he came to mayhem?

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 6:27:09 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Explaining what it feels like is pointless. Explaining the severity and differentiating it from merely being sad, however, can be useful.



I didn't have that experience, I'm afraid: explaining it terms of sadness in any way at all only made matters worse. I could only go by analogy - and that was of only a tiny use: There were no happy colours, but no sad colours either. There weren't *any* colours. In many ways depression, for me, was about the absence of feeling. People absolutely could *not* get that. Somehow, oddly - because it sounds so 'John Keats' to the ear - it frequently worked better just to say 'my spirit is in great pain'.

Well, put it this way, I've wished broken limbs on people I've hated before, but never severe depression.


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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 6:28:44 PM   
sheisreeds


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Status: offline 		Both times I was inpatient it was on units that did ECT, I found the ECT terrifying. People would come back from a treatment and sometimes barely know their name.

However, it can be really beneficial in certain cases of severe depression.

I would consider it if I was ever in a severe episode again, and wasn't responding to meds or therapy.

Chances are I wouldn't be a candidate, but if it was I would likely do it.

Kinda never want to be in that hell again. It'd be even worse in the future because I know something besides that hell exists now.

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RE: Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy (ECT) - 7/30/2012 6:30:51 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		in severe depression you would say about breaking someone's bones, "I really don't care. What difference would it make? It won't change anything and again, I just don't care", as you continue to lie in bed without any energy to even WANT to break someone's bones lol.


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