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Learning Suspension - 8/3/2012 9:08:40 PM   
Jaquin


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/12/2011
Status: offline 		Well, as per the urging of a friend - and bolstered by a fair few compliments from people at events - I have decided; with hesitation of course, to try my hand at rigging more "professionally". As is I've only done it to and with my friend cause we switch with each other.

But now we're setting up photo shoots and portfolio stuff and it's all really rather exciting. But then she says she wants to try suspension and that makes me nervous. I know little to nothing about suspension. Now rest assured I will not be doing suspension based on what is said here, I will be taking lessons from experienced people in person but I figured I could ask here as well for tips from those who have experience with it.

So, if anyone out there has done suspension bondage please give me some insight, perhaps some links would be great. I've done a google search but perhaps I'm using the wrong terms cause most of the links I find are either dead or are safety tips (not that those aren't needed) and not actually tutorials.

Thank you in advance.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/3/2012 9:35:04 PM   
Endivius


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Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline 		I dont know of any online suspension sites. However, getting hands on lessons is the way to go. Some of the key things about rigging:

adjust your rope to the weight of it's load, more weight means a bigger gage

avoid using climbing rope it stretches under tension wich can tear the skin

you need 4-6 wraps per limb to distribute weight over the surface area

never place a wrap over a joint

allways have a pair of surgeon's sheers on hand for an emergency

don't jerk during a lift, raising and lowering should be done in a gradual and steady pace

have at least one person on hand to assist incase of an emergency

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/3/2012 9:42:38 PM   
Jaquin


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/12/2011
Status: offline 		Already got EMT shears in my bag, and we have a winch rated for 1000+ pounds - and chances are the instructor will be there with me as will be the second person who's volunteered to model, and the photographer.

Thanks for the other advice, I'll make notes.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/4/2012 1:29:06 AM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

you need 4-6 wraps per limb to distribute weight over the surface area



Double that if you've got somebody who is prone to having their blood flow inhibited (like I am). Also, if you don't know if they're prone to it, don't rely on the sub being able to feel a lack of blood flow OR on limbs going cold. With certain people, you can't rely on either indication. Keep suspension sessions short (5 minutes) in the beginning, even if the sub thinks they can handle more, until you and them know their body well enough to know whether limbs going to sleep is an issue or not.

The first suspension scene I ever did, both my legs went to sleep to the point the after I was taken down, they weren't just numb, they where completely paralyzed. I had no feeling in them whatsoever, and couldn't move them at all (fell flat on my face when I tried to stand up); they where just death weight, and completely limp.
It took over 15 minutes to properly restore circulation, and it was excruciatingly painful.

Neither the top, nor I had noticed anything goning wrong during the rig, because I didn't feel a thing wrong, and nothing notable changed temperature wise.
This was with a very experienced (20+ years) rigger. It scared the shit out of him.

I've since learned what I can and cannot take suspension wise, but even knowing the limitations of my body exactly, it's still a very careful balancing act every single rig to get things exactly right. The rope being off a 1/4 of an inch can make all the difference in the world for me.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 8/4/2012 1:30:33 AM >

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/4/2012 2:36:58 AM   
Endivius


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Status: offline 		This is why generally when you see someone doing a suspension in person they frequently have the bottom squeeze thier fingers or wiggle thier toes during a suspension. It's to check circulation.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/4/2012 2:47:26 AM   
Thaz


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Status: offline 		As someone with a lot of experience with rope for non kinky purposes (working on fixing that) I would say that EMT shears are OK and good for some of the fine stuff but not fantastic on cutting heavier rope or a lot of it quickly. Easier to draw and use and less fiddly in my experience. Also cheap.

http://www.beautifulbondage.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=38_49&product_id=84
http://www.gerber-store.co.uk/knives-c1/gerber-e-z-zip-slicing-knife-p97
or for the Yanks:-
http://www.gerbergear.com/Hunting/Gear/E-Z-Zip_459242
http://www.gerbergear.com/Tactical/Knives/Crisis-Hook-Knife_31-001856

You dont _need_ these but I prefer something easier to use when things are a little pear-like.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/4/2012 8:44:21 PM   
Jaquin


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/12/2011
Status: offline 		Well the shears are something I got because well, ya never know when you'll need them. Doing suspension was not something that came to mind until suggested so I really have none of the equipment for it. I'll look into some of the other ones, can't hurt to have more right?

I'll make sure to talk to her about her circulation.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/4/2012 9:28:23 PM   
another1harder


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Status: offline 		Rent the movie Nine to Five.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/6/2012 10:14:21 AM   
Jaquin


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/12/2011
Status: offline 		Well suspension has been removed from the list of things to do for the time being until such time as I feel comfortable doing it. Thank you for the advice and tips given thus far - and though we aren't going to be doing it in the next couple weeks with our shoots we will do it eventually so any more tips and advice are still welcome.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/7/2012 9:01:58 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Two Knotty Boys have a good class (and I think a video) on the topic. They do a hip harness, and a separate chest harness, then do any other restrictive bondage (arms and legs) with a separate, non-weight-bearing rope. Bondage in a swing might give you a similar feeling and visual effect while being safer.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/8/2012 6:39:10 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Helps if you pick up a general book on anatomy. You need to know how the nerves run so as not to damage them.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/8/2012 2:32:12 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Before you go ahead and do a suspension, consider this; The suspension will only be as good as the person instructing you so make sure he/she is a skilled nawashi. Not everyone can be suspended. A successful suspension usually includes a fit, slender and flexible person. Nerve damage can occur in seconds and it can be very serious and very permanent. Its right to worry about circulation and understand the signs but not enough people concern themselves about nerve damage and how to avoid it.

There is some very valuable information here http://esinem.com/articles/technique/analysis-of-box-tie-related-suspension-nerve-injuries-version-1b

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/10/2012 11:02:42 PM   
SexyThoughts


Posts: 180
Joined: 7/14/2011
Status: offline 		On hook knives versus shears, I'd get the shears first, knife second. . There's pro's and cons, the main two being

1) The hook knife uses the arm as a lever to cut, while the shears use just the hand squeezing to cut. So the knife has more power. Thick ropes are more comfortable than thin ropes. And strong ropes are safer than weak ropes. So power is good.

2) The shears cut the rope from two directions, without pulling it sideways. The knife has to pull the rope, until the rope is tight enough to pull itself against the cutting edge. For suspension this isn't a problem, but the worst case scenario, "breathplayers pretending to be shibari, tight rope around neck, stupid knot choice" you have to tighten it further to cut with a hook knife, but shears can cut it sideways

I'm intentionally not discussing price, since with safety gear used in an crisis, cheap stuff is not the best. Knives have simpler construction, but how complicated the operation is is more important.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/11/2012 8:35:25 AM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline 		I know you have put your suspension plans on ice but I wanted to add one thing that I did not see mentioned here regarding the hardware one is connecting the suspension apparatus to. A bottom friend was considering some suspension play and asked my advice. I chatted a bit with her prospective top and learned that he felt a single lag bolt screwed into a ceiling joist was sufficient to hang that fancy two ton block and tackle from. It isn't. Make sure you research that part of the equation (which you often cannot see) thoroughly. Load bearing and all that.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/11/2012 11:17:00 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		The 8.6mm rope we use for climbing is rated at 2.2 tons, as is all climbing gear.

If you wanted to use a bolt through a joist to use with a kararbina it would typically be an M12 to M10 welded closed hook bolt. These are commonly available from any DIY shop. However, if you go to a climbing shop you will find one that has load rating on it.
We used an electric winch bolted to the wall with 4 fixings (M8 expanding bolts into the masonry) its wire from the winch then went to a turning block that was bolted to the concrete ceiling with a single M10 expanding bolt.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/11/2012 2:12:51 PM   
ResidentSadist


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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Google around and see if you can find a copy of Master Z's 12 point suspension info. I think he made an instructional video.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/11/2012 5:26:05 PM   
Jaquin


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/12/2011
Status: offline 		The point we are/were intending to use is well bolted in - it is used for suspension a lot. I watched someone do a rather nice one just this last Thursday. Was totally jealous of course too but then I can't tie it yet, and I've never been suspended yet though I want to.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/11/2012 10:28:49 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Suspension/rope is not My strongest skill. I just wanted to drop by and thank you for taking this subject so seriously, doing your research, and learning BEFORE you engage. Thank you for the fine example on this subject.


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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/12/2012 12:49:12 AM   
Thaz


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Joined: 4/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The 8.6mm rope we use for climbing is rated at 2.2 tons, as is all climbing gear.



Check out the ropes purpose and what the loading means. Climbing rope can come in static or shock loading. Ie it can be built to take a steady weight...as in fixed rope or abseil work or can be designed to absorbe a fall. Using shock weight designed rope for static loads means it will stretch and 'spring'. Which might be what you want although I'd personally prefer not to have that happen...but as another poster has already said be carefull of using that on human skin (not saying you do Maria, I'm more expanding on what you've said).

Another thing to be very carefull of is not fastening carabiners etc properly. That loading can drop to half or less of what it says if they are 'open'.
If you're using it for full suspension I'd strongly recomend a screw gate locking crab rather than a snap gate.

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RE: Learning Suspension - 8/12/2012 7:06:43 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
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quote:

A successful suspension usually includes a fit, slender and flexible person.


Although I agree with most of what you say, this is absolute baloney. Flexible and slender helps, but is not necessary. Fit certainly helps for a longer suspension, but not for suspension per se. Riggers who tell you fatties can't be suspended usually are a) not very well trained, b) lazy, c) not turned on by fat people and often all of the above. It's everyone's right not to want to suspend bigger people, but to say they can't be suspended is just a lame excuse.

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