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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 9:38:27 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And what does that have to do with undecided voters, Owner59? 

My question would be.....How can you be "undecided",when the differences are so stark,the visions so diametrically opposed,the partisanship so defined....how can you be "undecided"?
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the reality of this great big block of "undecideds wherein our political fortunes will actually be decided.
If these folks have truly made it thru all of this bullshit without choosing a side,are they really best qualified to be throwing elections one way or the other ?


Step back a minute. Let's suppose you like qualities of both Obama and Romney, and dislike other qualities. You're not allowed to take Obama's stance on Social Security and Romney's stance on healthcare. It's all or nothing. if one candidate matches your views 80% and one 30%, the choice is easy. But how about if both are at 60%?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 9:57:17 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Really Steven?

I look at it in the larger picture(removing the principals) can one be confused about which party's vision one adheres to,which party's outlook best suits one's own world view ?
I have a hard time imagining folks walking thru life "undecided" on the issues that so starkly divide the Democrats and the Republicans,taxes,immigration the role of the corporation in society.
I just don't see how there is space to cherry pick this parties stance on defense and this one's stance on taxes
For me the divide is too much a gulf too see how one can be confused...or undecided .
For me it's not about Romney or Obama...it is about the process of party that chooses the standard bearer.
For instance,in order to secure the Republican nomination the candidant must tack further to the right than his competitors,making more and more shrill statements about illegals,or homosexual marriage in an attempt to secure the "base" of that party.
How can I ,or anyone,ever be undecided about such a candidate.....I either subscribe to those beliefs or I don't.
Undecided is a myth to me

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 10:08:37 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

And then I'll forward said commercials to you so you don't feel left out. Living in California and all.


Gee, thanks, Steve... (I swear, this damn board is just chock full of sadists)

I think we are going to have plenty to keep us busy, out here on the left coast.  Governor Moonbeam's second act involves a big tax increase on the ballot, which ought to bring out all sorts of scare tactics.


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 10:48:26 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

My question would be.....How can you be "undecided",when the differences are so stark,the visions so diametrically opposed,the partisanship so defined....how can you be "undecided"?



They are in a different culture, Mike.  If you read the article from the link in the first post, you'd see that Colbert mocked them as, the people who don't make up their minds until they get to the counter in the fast food place, but I think that's only partly true.  They are living their lives, and those lives might not involve watching/reading the news, or paying any attention to politics.  They may be cynics (and President Obama has created a lot of those, from young people who believed in '08), but who won't get fooled again.  They may not buy any of the partisan spin and talking points of the day, from anybody, and they will vote based on their personal impressions of the state of the country, and on the state of their wallet.





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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 11:38:35 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

They may be cynics (and President Obama has created a lot of those, from young people who believed in '08), but who won't get fooled again.
or the many created by Gingrich, Bush, the Supreme Court, in the past two decade...
quote:

They may not buy any of the partisan spin and talking points of the day, from anybody

Whew. Then they'll see what you posted for the crap it is.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 12:08:27 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

They may be cynics (and President Obama has created a lot of those, from young people who believed in '08), but who won't get fooled again.


or the many created by Gingrich, Bush, the Supreme Court, in the past two decade...


Or when the Democrats gave the nomination to Al Gore, back in '00...

You say you want reasoned conversation, Muse, and then you jump back into denial mode, right off the bat.  Obama achieved pop star status in the last election, and won some voters on that appeal.  A new tone, close Gitmo, hope and change.  What are those young people seeing and living, four years later?


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 12:49:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

They may be cynics (and President Obama has created a lot of those, from young people who believed in '08), but who won't get fooled again.


or the many created by Gingrich, Bush, the Supreme Court, in the past two decade...


Or when the Democrats gave the nomination to Al Gore, back in '00...

You say you want reasoned conversation, Muse, and then you jump back into denial mode, right off the bat.  Obama achieved pop star status in the last election, and won some voters on that appeal.  A new tone, close Gitmo, hope and change.  What are those young people seeing and living, four years later?



No torture in their names
No one profits from their education loans
an economy on the road to a sound recovery
one less war to get they and their friends killed in
the first ever health care reform in US history
OBL dead
A formerly terrorist state that is now free from the tyrant who ruled it the past 30 odd years and replaced with a genuine democracy ith our help
Less dependence on foreign oil
The end of DADT
A President who supports marriage equality rather than one who appeals to fear and prejudice against anyone different.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 8/5/2012 12:50:45 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 1:03:16 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

They may be cynics (and President Obama has created a lot of those, from young people who believed in '08), but who won't get fooled again.


or the many created by Gingrich, Bush, the Supreme Court, in the past two decade...


Or when the Democrats gave the nomination to Al Gore, back in '00...

You say you want reasoned conversation, Muse, and then you jump back into denial mode, right off the bat.  Obama achieved pop star status in the last election, and won some voters on that appeal.  A new tone, close Gitmo, hope and change.  What are those young people seeing and living, four years later?



Bullshit. I'm saying voters are alienated for a number of reasons, and not your blind one-trick-pony partisan catch-all fall-back for all ills.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 1:03:16 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And what does that have to do with undecided voters, Owner59? 

My question would be.....How can you be "undecided",when the differences are so stark,the visions so diametrically opposed,the partisanship so defined....how can you be "undecided"?
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the reality of this great big block of "undecideds wherein our political fortunes will actually be decided.
If these folks have truly made it thru all of this bullshit without choosing a side,are they really best qualified to be throwing elections one way or the other ?


Step back a minute. Let's suppose you like qualities of both Obama and Romney, and dislike other qualities. You're not allowed to take Obama's stance on Social Security and Romney's stance on healthcare. It's all or nothing. if one candidate matches your views 80% and one 30%, the choice is easy. But how about if both are at 60%?


There are also quite a few folks who really don`t make up thier minds till weeks or days before election day.

The a-political and non-political.

It`s very possible they would vote for Romney......given the info they`re getting.

It`s also just as likely they`ll vote for President Obama.....

One thing I`m sure of is that no one in the Obama campaign thinks it`s in the bag or that they don`t have to fight for every single vote.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 1:40:21 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Bullshit. I'm saying voters are alienated for a number of reasons, and not your blind one-trick-pony partisan catch-all fall-back for all ills.


You're the one who had to make it partisan, Muse, with the, "they did it first," irrelevancy.  Of course Republicans have caused voters to turn cynical.  It's the nature of politics.  People figure out that the way to tell when a politician is lying, is to watch for lips to move.

In this election, you know, the one coming up, it's the failure of the hope and change to materialize that has taught some of the young the lessons the older generations already came to terms with.  Perhaps you noted from the original article that the undecided voters are classified as leaning Democrat, over Republican, by 40% to 20%?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 2:43:24 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

You're the one who had to make it partisan, Muse, with the, "they did it first," irrelevancy.


Oh please.

You: Obama is the heart of all politic discontent.
Me: Um, no, hardly all nor the first.
You: PARTISAN!!!!!!!

Go away.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 3:01:26 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I don't know if you are reading somebody else's posts, and confusing them with me, or just reading mine through way too heavy a set of filters, Muse.  I said undecided voters might be complete cynics about politics and political discussion, and noted as an aside that President Obama had created a lot.  Are you denying he was a bandwagon candidate?  I said nothing about him being the new gold standard in voter's remorse, but for voters who saw him on t-shirts, and think the world should work like sit-com television, it hasn't worked out very well.

He may bring those voters back, he may lose them to Romney, they may just vote with their asses.

Personally, I would rather see a sea change in the weeks ahead, and a clear win, rather than a nailbiter.


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 10:37:34 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Ouch!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhDQJU1NlE&feature=g-logo-xre

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 10:53:07 PM   
Silentrunner26


Posts: 424
Joined: 7/15/2009
Status: offline 		So why does the First Lady need so many staffers when she does nothing ? If she does do anything please let me know what it is and why she needs such a huge staff.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/5/2012 11:38:50 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Ouch!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhDQJU1NlE&feature=g-logo-xre


Wow, Owner59.  It's like somebody knew all the stuff you've posted about recently, and put into a commercial with the President's official approval!  Are they reading your mind???  Cue the Twilight Zone music!

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/6/2012 6:56:53 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont care about photo ID if the ones who want it will pay for it


Anybody who is unable to come up with $18 can pick up a voucher at the welfare office, or a social services agency, very easily. You need one of those at all sorts of places, and to do all sorts of things.


I dont care if they are able or unable, I do not want to pay for voter id at all, the people advocating it should pay for all of it out of their pockets, not mine.    

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/6/2012 7:04:05 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I dont care if they are able or unable, I do not want to pay for voter id at all, the people advocating it should pay for all of it out of their pockets, not mine.    


And I'm no great fan of welfare paying for a consultation with a makeup artist, and the cover-up makeup to hide tattoos at job interviews, but there it is, all the same, from both our pockets. 

Have a spiffy day.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/6/2012 7:12:45 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And what does that have to do with undecided voters, Owner59? 

My question would be.....How can you be "undecided",when the differences are so stark,the visions so diametrically opposed,the partisanship so defined....how can you be "undecided"?
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the reality of this great big block of "undecideds wherein our political fortunes will actually be decided.
If these folks have truly made it thru all of this bullshit without choosing a side,are they really best qualified to be throwing elections one way or the other ?



That is easy. There are things about Obama I like and things about Romney i like. There are things about both men that I don't like. If you feel that means I am not qualified to vote, then that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. It won't change the fact that a lot of people haven't made up their minds yet nor will it stop anyone from voting.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/6/2012 7:46:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I dont care if they are able or unable, I do not want to pay for voter id at all, the people advocating it should pay for all of it out of their pockets, not mine.    


And I'm no great fan of welfare paying for a consultation with a makeup artist, and the cover-up makeup to hide tattoos at job interviews, but there it is, all the same, from both our pockets. 

Have a spiffy day.
 

I do not find the equivalence between that and someone calling for larger more intrusive government to fix a non-existant problem.

Which it would not fix anyway, if the problem actually existed.

Now what you guys do with your block grant appropriations is on you. 

I rarely encounter a non-spiffy day.

  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/6/2012 7:53:04 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I dont care if they are able or unable, I do not want to pay for voter id at all, the people advocating it should pay for all of it out of their pockets, not mine.    


And I'm no great fan of welfare paying for a consultation with a makeup artist, and the cover-up makeup to hide tattoos at job interviews, but there it is, all the same, from both our pockets. 

Have a spiffy day.
 

I do not find the equivalence between that and someone calling for larger more intrusive government to fix a non-existant problem.

Which it would not fix anyway, if the problem actually existed.

Now what you guys do with your block grant appropriations is on you. 

I rarely encounter a non-spiffy day.

  



He trusts government explicitly and is very comfortable with authoritarianism, when it`s someone else is getting the boot on their necks..............which is typically republican.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 60
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