Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Looking to learn from others experiences


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Looking to learn from others experiences Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/4/2012 10:47:47 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Kana here

I say that before you go down this road you should think long and hard. You've said that you wouldn't be crossing a hard limit, but you would be forcing her to an act that she would never otherwise do. Now I know that the immediate question is, Well, how does that make this different than any other command she may be uncomfortable with?"
Which is a helluva good query...
And the answer is that 1-It involves another person, and 2-That means it's gonna change the dynamics of the relationship in some way.
So the question you really need to ask is, and this is pretty much the root question we should all ask in any uncertain situation, is the reward worth the risk?
If so, then full steam ahead...
And if that's the route you choose to go, I firmly disagree with the majority of the posters here, including the lilone. If you do this, and you are sure that she's gonna get zero pleasure out of the act and that's she's only doing it for you, don't take it slow. Don't give her a chance to play things over in her head, lock up inside. Do it quick and fast, a wham bang thank you Maam sorta thing.
Then deal with the emotional consequences ex post facto....

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 8/4/2012 10:48:39 PM >

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/4/2012 11:30:54 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekerMA

If I were the submissive, and was submissive to the extent that every conversation I've had with my sub has led me to believe she is, then I would be willing to participate even in homosexual acts. I wouldn't enjoy it, I wouldn't get pleasure from the act itself, but I would do it, and get happiness from the happiness I gave my mistress, and from the knowledge that I was able to fulfill such a difficult task.

That's the way I see submission as being anyway. Perhaps my sub sees things differently, which is why we're going to talk about this - as well as our relationship dynamic in general - so we can figure these things out together once and for all.


I think you have your answer here. You need to figure out very clearly the boundaries of your power exchange.

Personally if she were my sub I'd be worried about pushing this unless I was certain we were totally clear on everything. I'd also be a bit worried about the other person - I know I wouldn't want to come in and have sex or a threesome with a woman who I knew to be straight and for this to be very nearly a hard limit. For me that promises an awkward and unpleasant sexual encounter, even if she tries really hard to please you.

Is she open to sex with other people in general? Regardless of gender I really don't like the idea of involving another person in our sex life because I feel it would trigger some insecurities of mine. So that's something else you need to think about. Lots of people have happy encounters, but for some it can have a negative impact on their relationship.

As Kana said, I think you need to weigh up risk and reward here. I'd do it for my husband to make him happy, but it would shake me up and make me very upset, and so he won't consider it because the pay off isn't worth my unhappiness.

And as an aside, I would guess that one-on-one with another woman might be harder than a threesome, in which she can at least focus mostly on you. Of course, if jealousy is an issue, the opposite might be true.

Edit to add: Just noticed your age, so I'm assuming you haven't been together for all that long and she's probably youngish too. This may change as you get deeper into your relationship and both get older. Most of my limits have crumbled away now that we've been together for six years because I have all that trust and love and security to build on. I'm also more sure of myself at 25 than I was at 18 - give me ten years and who knows where I will be. If you're still together in a few years she might be more open to this. No need to rush all the big things, you have your whole lives to explore. (Don't mean to sound patronising at all, just speaking through experience of being young in a D/s relationship)

< Message edited by AthenaSurrenders -- 8/4/2012 11:34:35 PM >

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to SeekerMA)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/5/2012 12:57:13 AM   
xLaChienne


Posts: 259
Joined: 11/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekerMA

If I were the submissive, and was submissive to the extent that every conversation I've had with my sub has led me to believe she is, then I would be willing to participate even in homosexual acts. I wouldn't enjoy it, I wouldn't get pleasure from the act itself, but I would do it, and get happiness from the happiness I gave my mistress, and from the knowledge that I was able to fulfill such a difficult task.

That's the way I see submission as being anyway. Perhaps my sub sees things differently, which is why we're going to talk about this - as well as our relationship dynamic in general - so we can figure these things out together once and for all.



You have gotten a fairly good range of responses.

What is the motivation for this desire? Is your relationship monogamous?

In many ways this is difficult to give advice on because there is so very much that can come into play.

It can be as simple as, "I say, you do." If that is the case then there is no need to go slow.

It can also be quite complex. You can talk it to death, explore every angle, and walk away thinking you have a good grasp of how you both might react. Like with many things though sometimes you simply can not predict how you will respond when the fat is in the fire. It's not even something you can compare to other situations in which you might have pushed at her sexual or personal boundaries because for many who are heterosexual and monogamous it not only calls into question their heterosexuality but their relationship as well. It can be an instinctive threat to both, especially to someone younger, inexperienced, and still defining and learning who they are. If that is the case then going slow would be wise.

You can figure things out together but there is rarely a once and for all in relationships. Things that are unpalatable early on can become exciting and new things to explore later. Things that were exciting can become unpalatable. It is in constant flux and often indicative of the overall state of the relationship.






(in reply to SeekerMA)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/5/2012 1:42:48 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekerMA

If I were the submissive, and was submissive to the extent that every conversation I've had with my sub has led me to believe she is, then I would be willing to participate even in homosexual acts. I wouldn't enjoy it, I wouldn't get pleasure from the act itself, but I would do it, and get happiness from the happiness I gave my mistress, and from the knowledge that I was able to fulfill such a difficult task.

That's the way I see submission as being anyway. Perhaps my sub sees things differently, which is why we're going to talk about this - as well as our relationship dynamic in general - so we can figure these things out together once and for all.


The slippery slope part is making certain that this is not going to cause your submissive partner damage or harm.
If the idea of being with a woman is nauseating to her, then her doing it for your sake, may not be a good idea.
(And yes, I am giving an extreme example... you will have to figure out what level of dislike she has.)

Also, if she is at all insecure: about her appearance, her attractiveness to you; if she is someone who would have feelings of jealousy or would worry that you might begin liking the play-partner more than her, then you may want to rethink.


_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to SeekerMA)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/5/2012 2:43:48 AM   
Salinedion


Posts: 198
Joined: 5/25/2012
Status: offline 		I agree, it's down to checking yourself on your motivation for wanting this.

Is this a humiliation kink? It sure seems in that ballpark.

I wanted to humble my partner way back when. My motivation was that I thought we'd both be happier with a little less of her ponderous ego clogging up our sex life and broader relationship -and such a model made us have a lot more sex. It def took some calibrating to find the right mix.

Why do you want to humble her? What's the subordinate mindset goal? What's the best way to get there from here? What's in it for her?

She probably wants to feel owned and put in her sweet place a lot more than she wants to jump though gratuitous and onerous hoops to show "submission".

You may be passing on a BDSM-dollar to scoop up some swinger-pocket change.

_____________________________

I hate the 'reply to' note at the end of the post. Just assume I'm posting to the board at large and not the person above me unless I say diff, OK?

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/5/2012 11:45:17 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I've been debating bringing this up, but I think it's pertinent. I remember a thread written by a young Dominant who'd decided with his submissive that they wanted to have her fuck a stranger, and then have her go directly to him to be fucked by him. They thought this was going to be incredibly hot. She followed through on it, found a guy, went to her Dom dripping with the stranger's jizz and after he got started with her, he was mortified to find himself repulsed and not able to go through with it on his end. Their relationship suffered quite a bit. She was horrified to have done something at his behest and then be rejected by him, he had no idea how to make it up to her, or what to do. They both thought it was going to be something that it didn't turn out to be at all.

That thread made a big impression on me. I felt badly for the people involved because they didn't see that reaction coming, and were left trying to pick up the pieces. I'm NOT saying that what you would like to do will cause this in your own relationship...I'm just saying look at everything carefully when you are bumping up against areas that have strong feelings involved, because there is a chance that you or she will end up in no man's land. BDSM isn't generally sanitized to be perfectly safe emotionally or physically, and that's why people like myself like it. But reading that thread made me think hard about how sometimes we end up going somewhere we never intended, and how things can change from one thing to another.

(in reply to SeekerMA)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/5/2012 9:54:45 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hah.
I know a guy who had a slave, decided he wanted to have a threesome.
One threesome went well, so well they decided to have a few more. And then a few more.
All of which went well until one day he came home to find his house empty and his slave gone, because she had left him for her (new) female lover.
Chortles
That one didn't work out the way he fantasized!

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/5/2012 10:32:21 PM   
CRYPTICLXVI


Posts: 3907
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Even property is human. Think about what your true motivation is before you proceed.


quote:

Kana here

I say that before you go down this road you should think long and hard. You've said that you wouldn't be crossing a hard limit, but you would be forcing her to an act that she would never otherwise do. Now I know that the immediate question is, Well, how does that make this different than any other command she may be uncomfortable with?"
Which is a helluva good query...
And the answer is that 1-It involves another person, and 2-That means it's gonna change the dynamics of the relationship in some way.
So the question you really need to ask is, and this is pretty much the root question we should all ask in any uncertain situation, is the reward worth the risk?


I think these two responses as well as most of the others point out quite a bit to think about... sometimes the needs, desires, kinks, all of it loses sight that we are people. They are people. True, if she is just property to you, her well being doesn't mean shit to you, there is no more of a relationship than "she does what I tell her to"... there is nothing to consider on your part.

In my own case, there have been things I appreciate, enjoy... some of them I have done regardless, others, I have stepped away because I recognize the damage done. That is just me, fuck, even trying to tread lightly sometimes, things have unintended consequences. Shrug.

I think what you stated you were going to do is best, at least for you... all relationships, regardless of how they are defined are only strengthened through honest, open and for me, direct communication.

Then again I post with this image a lot, so what the fucking hell do I know?

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/6/2012 12:26:52 AM   
SeekerMA


Posts: 35
Joined: 8/4/2012
Status: offline 		You know, there's a guy on this other forum I frequent who talks about squirrels a lot too, so I won't hold that picture against you. Particularly since I agree, sooner or later mistakes are invariably made and things turn sour. But that just makes it all the more important to avoid the ones that are avoidable.

And on that note, thanks for the responses to everyone who contributed. It is safe to say that I got more than I ever expected, lol, but they were all very useful and helped clarify the situation for me greatly. I talked things over with my sub, and we decided not to pursue this fantasy after all. On the bright side, it really did bring us closer together, so I'm pretty happy with the outcome. Sometimes it's good just to have an issue resolved.

In answer to AthenaSurrenders, she is actually considerably older than me, and we've been together for quite a while, so I don't really expect her views on this will change. Mine most likely will though, I have no doubt you're correct about that! And in answer to Salinedion, I don't think my attraction to this scenario stemmed from humiliation play (although I do enjoy that sort of thing). Rather it stemmed simply from the control involved in being able to order such a thing. I've never really thought about it beyond that, it's just always been a fantasy of mine.

In any case, thanks again for the advice to all, and an even bigger thanks from my sub, for helping me make the right decision.

(in reply to CRYPTICLXVI)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/6/2012 1:08:50 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Seeker, it's refreshing to have someone come on here and be so sensible. Often people get defensive if anyone dares suggest their idea isn't perfect. It's nice that you've given this a lot of thought and made the decision together with your sub. You sound like the type of dom I respect, and I hope you stick around.

And I agree, sometimes just exploring these things in theory can be a good exercise.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to SeekerMA)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/6/2012 9:26:14 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Are you bisexual?
If not, why don't you train yourself to be gay? To crave cock instead of pussy?

If it's that easy to totally change your orientation, then why haven't you learned how yourself?

He could demand I have sex with another woman. He could not make me like it or enjoy it. And since honesty is demanded here, I wouldn't lie to the other woman. I would make it clear that I loathed the idea of touching her and would hold resentment and dislike forever as a result of the experience. That she would never be someone I would want to even have coffee with.

Are you warning the third that you're forcing your sub to do this? Because if you aren't, then you're being dishonest.
And that resentment I mentioned? Expect it to destroy your relationship because here goes any trust in you being interested in her well being and putting her needs ahead of your stiffy. Her trust in you will go right out the window.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/6/2012 10:13:48 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Are you warning the third that you're forcing your sub to do this? Because if you aren't, then you're being dishonest.
And that resentment I mentioned? Expect it to destroy your relationship because here goes any trust in you being interested in her well being and putting her needs ahead of your stiffy. Her trust in you will go right out the window.


I think you missed the part where he said they discussed it and decided this isn't right for their relationship. Trust intact, I would say.

Also, this might just be me, but if I agreed to submit to bringing another person into the bedroom, even if I hated it, I don't think I would go to such lengths to make the other person as uncomfortable as possible. That seems like a way of guaranteeing she would be scared off, so I wouldn't have to submit to it after all. Not saying she wouldn't know I was there on orders, but all of the talk about being repulsed? Sounds like a passive-aggressive way of not submitting to the order.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/6/2012 10:12:55 PM   
SeekerMA


Posts: 35
Joined: 8/4/2012
Status: offline 		Thank you, Athena! I can only hope to always handle myself in such a manner. Oddly enough, whereas others use the internet for anonymity and so lose all filters and courtesy, I am the opposite. Something about writing and reading calms my mind and makes objectivity much easier to attain. And I'll certainly be sticking around - I still have so much to learn, after all.

To DesFIP, I think your analogy is off, since a sub might be motivated to do previously unthinkable things by the desire to submit, but a Dom has no such desire. As such, why would I want to change my sexuality? Moreover, I never wanted or even considered making my sub bisexual, since that is impossible. But in any case, as already stated, we decided not to pursue such play, now or in the future, so we avoided the pitfall you described.

< Message edited by SeekerMA -- 8/6/2012 10:13:32 PM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/7/2012 6:57:23 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I talked things over with my sub, and we decided not to pursue this fantasy after all. On the bright side, it really did bring us closer together, so I'm pretty happy with the outcome. Sometimes it's good just to have an issue resolved.


Good for you!

FYI, despite being bisexual and poly, I did end a D/s relationship because he forced me to have sex with women who were not of my choosing.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to SeekerMA)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Looking to learn from others experiences - 8/7/2012 7:23:51 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I missed the fact that you've decided not to pursue it. Good for you. You can always change a no to a yes, but you can't undo a bad experience once it's happened.

I don't think it would be passive aggressive to be honest with the third, who would expect to be treated with kindness and some conversation before and after. I think lying to her, saying things you don't mean and won't carry through to be worse.

I've seen relationships break up after the guy demands this. If the woman is straight, and there's nothing but bad emotional pain in being forced to have unwanted sexual encounters, it leads to loss of trust. In exactly the same way that just because you might enjoy a flogging, you would hate to have your toe smashed with a hammer.

But usually the discussion about bisexuality and poly comes at the beginning of a relationship, not after it starts. Changing a foundation block of the relationship is akin to ending the previous relationship totally at which point you need to start all over with discussions of limits, if you want to maintain any relationship with the person.

For myself, I know I would never forgive him for doing this to me. Which means the relationship would end as a result of my resentment. As such I would rather end the relationship first without going through such an unpleasant experience.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 35
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Looking to learn from others experiences Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.082