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Here's an odd story. - 8/4/2012 5:06:47 PM

DarkSteven

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Besa: Muslims Who Saved Jews in World War II

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/4/2012 5:35:52 PM

Rule

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The Balkans were and are a weird place. Various different religions came together there and had to co-exist together.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/4/2012 8:51:28 PM

vincentML

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From the article . . . "Under besa, a guest in one’s home must be protected at all cost. The code is uniquely Albanian and is cited in the new film as the main reason that Albanians opened their borders and their homes to displaced Jews when many others in Europe turned them away."

Question . . . . wasn't this the reason the Taliban gave for refusing to give up OBL on the demand of GW Bush?

Maybe not so unique, but certainly admirable.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 1:39:35 AM

Tumblweed

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Yer talking Albania here DarkSteven. But if you know about this, Jews who got hidden by people during Nazi occupation get paid now by the people of Germany, even though none of them alive now perpetrated the wrongs of that regime.

But Poles, who saved a hell of alot of Jews during the Nazi times get nothing. It was they who supported them, risking their lives in the process. Why don't they get anythng ?

Lately Germany is getting chiseled out of another six billion. And now they want Iran to pay for 9/11, You know Iran had nothing at all to do with 9/11. You may think "How can they be so stupid" but that is not how it is, it is greed and they HOPE we are that stupid to believe them. Government has gone wild, really.

Weed

(in reply to vincentML)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 2:17:40 AM

Thaz

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Assuming all people of whatever faith are good, bad or whatever is of course silly. There are many many people of whatever faith are brave and willing to sacrifice to do the right thing. Many are Muslim, the core teachings of which are pretty much as enlightened and good to live by as any other (yes I've read the Koran, or whichever way is currently fashionable to translate it) so it should come as no surprise to see Muslims doing the right thing. Any more than it is to see some Christians not doing the right thing and preaching hate and intolerance in direct contradiction to the core teachings of that faith. People are people after all. Good, bad or just self intrested and frightened.

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 3:29:11 AM

Tumblweed

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Why who gets what money.

Weed

(in reply to Thaz)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 10:09:20 AM

graceadieu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

There are some verses in the Koran and the hadiths that are a cause of justifiable concern, regardless of whether one reads the whole lot or not, especially if they are given an extremely literal interpretation as seems to be the case with some elements of the Islamic world today

That's very true, though it seems pretty comperable to stuff in the Bible. IMO it's just that in the West we have a much stronger commitment to individual liberty and religious freedom, so even if some Western Christians or Jews (or Muslims for that matter) believe that the US government is evil and kissing someone you're not married to is a sin, they're not going to go out and threaten people over it.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 10:17:55 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

There are some verses in the Koran and the hadiths that are a cause of justifiable concern, regardless of whether one reads the whole lot or not, especially if they are given an extremely literal interpretation as seems to be the case with some elements of the Islamic world today

That's very true, though it seems pretty comperable to stuff in the Bible. IMO it's just that in the West we have a much stronger commitment to individual liberty and religious freedom, so even if some Western Christians or Jews (or Muslims for that matter) believe that the US government is evil and kissing someone you're not married to is a sin, they're not going to go out and threaten people over it.

I believe the main reason is the difference in governments moreso than religions.

There are plenty of "scary" verses in the bible (although most, I think, occur in the old testament so one might wonder why a CHRISTian would embrace them but that's for another post) as well as other religious texts. The difference is that in muslim theocracies ... well, it's a government founded on a specific religion.

While people claim that the US was founded on "Judeo-Christian values". They're sort of correct but not really. Thomas Jefferson was of several religious beliefs at different times in his life and when he was involved with the constitution (most particularly the bill of rights), he was concerned with religious freedom because he knew he was different from most of his countrymen and if pluralism wasn't the call of the day, he would be one of the first people banished.

We're founded on the ideal of pluralism. We allow many different beliefs because like it or not, the men who founded this country weren't all Christians and Jews.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 11:42:31 AM

erieangel

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Jefferson and many other founding fathers were Deists; they sought truth through reason. There is little reason or even thought in today's version of Christianity. Most notable, I believe it was Jefferson (anybody can correct me if I'm wrong) who cut out the passages of the Bible that he did not agree with and pasted together what he had left.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 11:44:57 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

We're founded on the ideal of pluralism.

We are. But that memo hasn't gotten around to a large portion of the population.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 12:32:40 PM

Tumblweed

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Cut thru the shit. all religions have this who you are sposed to kill and who you aint. We need to get our nose out of that asshole and make our own religion.

Tell me, who the fuck says religions have to be centuries or milleniums old ?

Just start a totally new one, what is stopping you ?

Weed

(in reply to Musicmystery)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 12:47:08 PM

Owner59

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During the recent Balkan wars....when Balkan Muslims were being rounded up for mass graves or rape camp and other war crimes....I was listening to former Mayor Ed Koch`s radio show in NYC where astonishingly,callers identifying themselves as Jewish were cheering on the Serbs,claiming that Balkan Muslims had helped the nazis during WWII, so this was "their" pay-back........

Mayor Koch to his credit,scolded those folks,in ways only Jews can scold other Jews...and make it count.

It`s sad that these important stories didn`t become known and part of the WWII narrative.They surly would have lessened the hate/fear some have for Muslims.

Added: Thanks Steven for the OP.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/5/2012 12:51:06 PM >

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(in reply to Tumblweed)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 12:48:57 PM

DaddySatyr

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tumblweed

Cut thru the shit. all religions have this who you are sposed to kill and who you aint. We need to get our nose out of that asshole and make our own religion.

Tell me, who the fuck says religions have to be centuries or milleniums old ?

Just start a totally new one, what is stopping you ?

Weed

I can answer that.

What's stopping me from forming or joining a new religion is the (internal) knowledge that God speaks to us all, differently and the history that tells me that anyone who claims to speak for a god has a tendency to become egotistical and runs the religion right off the rails.

Look at any "big" religious leader that has come across the national or international radar and notice where their tendencies have taken them. Even the once revered Billy Graham (How many US presidents did he "consult" with?) fell victim to his own ego and (many would feel) mis-interpretation of biblical principles.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Tumblweed)

Post #: 13

RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 1:06:03 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

The Balkans were and are a weird place. Various different religions came together there and had to co-exist together.

Like much of the rest of the world

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 14

RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/5/2012 1:07:28 PM

dcnovice

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FR

What a wonderful story, one I'd known nothing about. Thanks for the link, Steven! Now I'd really like to see the film.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Politesub53)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/6/2012 12:02:09 AM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Besa: Muslims Who Saved Jews in World War II

Throughout the Holy Land and nearby regions, there are age old traditions of co-operation between the various faiths - Christian, Muslim, Judaism and others - that transcend the friction we are used to seeing on our TV screens.

What makes this one surprising to us is the protection Muslims accorded to Jews. We might note that this occurred before the foundation of Israel, which soured so many relationships in that part of the world. Please note I am not saying that pre-1949, everything and everyone was hunky-dorey. That is clearly not the case. There has been an awful lot of friction too.

However traditions such as the Albanian one are not that uncommon in that part of the world. It is a shame that such generosity of spirit as the Albanians displayed is not universal.

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/7/2012 7:12:04 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tumblweed

Yer talking Albania here DarkSteven. But if you know about this, Jews who got hidden by people during Nazi occupation get paid now by the people of Germany, even though none of them alive now perpetrated the wrongs of that regime.

None of the 6 million dead are getting any money either...Do you not understand the concept of "reparations"?

quote:

But Poles, who saved a hell of alot of Jews during the Nazi times get nothing. It was they who supported them, risking their lives in the process. Why don't they get anythng ?

Why should they? Were there 6 million dead poles in the gas chambers?

quote:

Lately Germany is getting chiseled out of another six billion.

Chiseled???
Got a link?

quote:

And now they want Iran to pay for 9/11, You know Iran had nothing at all to do with 9/11.

They who?
Cite please?

(in reply to Tumblweed)

Post #: 17

RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/7/2012 3:11:04 PM

VideoAdminTheta

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Good day to all.

In fairness to those that are going by the section guidelines, I have removed most of the posts on this thread and have returned it to the forum. Please do not abuse my generosity. According to guidelines, the thread should have been removed and not returned.

Please remain within the guidelines of the forums and this section of the forums.

Thank you

(in reply to thompsonx)

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RE: Here's an odd story. - 8/7/2012 3:14:10 PM

Moonhead

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Now that's a serious edit.
Kudos!

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