An abortionist talks too much

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TheHeretic -> An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 8:30:23 PM)
So let's set the stage for the video clip. The Jesus people go knock on an abortionist's door, engage him in a discussion, and manage to piss him off enough that he says a couple things he probably shouldn't have. Like the part where he tells the Jesus people that they should all adopt those, "ugly black babies." Youtube video - less than a minute Just a servant of the people, huh? To avoid any confusion, and for the benefit of anyone who hasn't encountered my views on the subject, I support a woman's right to choose an abortion right up to the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I'm also ok with a side effect being the right of asshole men to hand her a couple hundred bucks, and tell her to get rid of it. I'm not so ok with the potential for horrific abuse by wanna-be eugenicists, so I like that the issue is controversial, confrontational, and divisive. It keeps people in power honest, and forces the supporters to look at what they have joined themselves with.

DaddySatyr -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 8:36:34 PM)
Thank God the guy was a person of color, himself or his views would be automatically dismissed as "coming from a racist". Unfortunately, the video isn't really long enough to see who started raising their voices first (that's important to me). I don't know ... having babies and giving them up for adoption is a choice; just like killing them is. I think, if people really believed in choice instead of legislation we'd move a bit closer to liberty. Peace and comfort, Michael

dcnovice -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 8:44:14 PM)
quote: I support a woman's right to choose an abortion right up to the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I've never heard it put quite that way before. How would that work? A c-section? Induced labor?

TheHeretic -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 8:51:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Unfortunately, the video isn't really long enough to see who started raising their voices first (that's important to me). I'd say that's moot. That they went to him in their matching t-shirts tells me enough about who decided to initiate a confrontation.

TheHeretic -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 8:55:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: I support a woman's right to choose an abortion right up to the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I've never heard it put quite that way before. How would that work? A c-section? Induced labor? It might take a vaginal ultrasound to work out the best method. [8\|] I seem to recall it was once called a partial-birth abortion, but I bet they changed the name of the procedure.

tazzygirl -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 9:08:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: I support a woman's right to choose an abortion right up to the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I've never heard it put quite that way before. How would that work? A c-section? Induced labor? Its already written into the laws.

tazzygirl -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 9:13:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: I support a woman's right to choose an abortion right up to the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I've never heard it put quite that way before. How would that work? A c-section? Induced labor? It might take a vaginal ultrasound to work out the best method. [8\|] I seem to recall it was once called a partial-birth abortion, but I bet they changed the name of the procedure. Intact dilation and extraction (IDX) is a type of late term abortion. It is also known as intact dilation and evacuation, dilation and extraction (D&X, or DNX), intrauterine cranial decompression and, vernacularly in the United States, as partial birth abortion. The procedure may also be used to remove a fetus that is developed enough to require dilation of the cervix for its extraction.[1] Though the procedure has had a low rate of use, representing 0.17% (2,232 of 1,313,000) of all abortions in the United States in the year 2000, according to voluntary responses to an Alan Guttmacher Institute survey,[2] it has developed into a focal point of the abortion debate. In the United States, intact dilation and extraction was made illegal in most circumstances by the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act in 2003, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction

DaddySatyr -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 9:16:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Unfortunately, the video isn't really long enough to see who started raising their voices first (that's important to me). I'd say that's moot. That they went to him in their matching t-shirts tells me enough about who decided to initiate a confrontation. I understand what you're saying, Rich but I have religious people knocking on my door, all the time. I don't get loud with them and I don't get confrontational. I listen to them and I counter their arguments. In this area, it's mostly mormons and Bible-thumpin' baptists. I fuck with them, equally but, I do it calmly and rationally. To my mind, the first person to raise their voice in a debate is wrong. "When you the law is on your side, argue the law and when the facts are on your side, argue the facts. But, if you don't have the law on your side and you don't have the facts on your side, bang your fist on the table, as loudly as you can." I think of that quote, often when I hear people get flustered and try to shout each other down on the talking heads shows or on my doorstep or in other places where people have no clue about forms of civil discourse. That's why I mentioned the length of the video. There is no doubt that there is some argument to be made that the folks in the matching t-shirts were on some kind of crusade and bugging this guy in his home but the guy could have closed the door in their faces. Peace and comfort, Michael

TheHeretic -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 9:38:35 PM)
I can see you point, Michael, but to my way of thinking, when one party decides to spring the debate on another party at their home, it isn't what I consider a debate. Around here, it is Jehovah's Witnesses, and a particular flavor of baptist cult. I generally just let the dogs bark at them through the front window, until they go away.

dcnovice -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 9:58:09 PM)
FR A few stray thoughts from a brain that should be in bed: -- It's awfully interesting that the antiabortion advocates just happened to have a videographer with them. The doctor was foolish to engage them. -- There's no getting round the ghastly phrase the doctor uttered. But I honestly do wonder whether "ugly black babies" was his personal perspective on African-American children or his take on how potential adoptive parents view them. We'll never know, I realize. -- The antiabortion folks repeatedly voiced their willingness to adopt minority children. I wonder if they've actually done so. -- I may be the only person on Earth who's marched on both sides of this issue. As a devout young Catholic (taught to view abortion as the slaughter of the most defenseless of humankind), I did the January 22nd trek at least half a dozen times. My certainty on the issue evaporated as I grew older, met women who'd actually had abortions, and realized they were not murderous. Two pieces of writing also influenced me a lot: an essay by Barbara Ehrenreich (quoted here and here in another thread) and Marge Piercy's poem "Right to Life." -- If abortion is indeed murder, should those who obtain or provide one be executed in states with the death penalty?

DaddySatyr -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 10:02:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic (emphasis is mine) I can see you point, Michael, but to my way of thinking, when one party decides to spring the debate on another party at their home, it isn't what I consider a debate. Around here, it is Jehovah's Witnesses, and a particular flavor of baptist cult. I generally just let the dogs bark at them through the front window, until they go away. You're absolutely right it is one of the most basic tenets that the founding fathers enumerated. I wasn't saying I don't feel bad for the guy being confronted in his home. Like I said, it happens to me, all the time. I have the choice to open the door or ignore them (or ask them to get off my property before they even open the sewers under their noses). I do feel bad for the guy but, he could have handled it better. Peace and comfort, Michael ETA: I wonder if the home owner saw the camera and if he has a cause of action since he didn't sign a release and it looks like it was recorded on his property?

FatDomDaddy -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 11:06:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice -- There's no getting round the ghastly phrase the doctor uttered. But I honestly do wonder whether "ugly black babies" was his personal perspective on African-American children or his take on how potential adoptive parents view them. We'll never know, I realize. Clearly the Doctor was trying to using sarcasm in the voice of his protagonist. Ya know, those people who came to his homestead, caught him off guard, off hours/call and video taped it. When he used the term "ulgy black babies" he was assuming a position of his protractors (a judgement mistake made in the moment) which the doctor in actuality, really did not know. Heretic clearly sees this and I loved his statements in the post, they were quite good. I wish collarme had a "like" button. A lot of stupid people will get fired up. A lot of disingenuous people will try and use it as political fire which will be carried by their useful idiots. And....a bunch of guilt ridden white people won't know what to do. A very apt headline by the way...

FatDomDaddy -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/9/2012 11:10:59 PM)
BTW... I've never...in 45+ years, had a religious witness come to my door or approach me in a public place and and not politely leave when I said no thank you or not today.

DomKen -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/10/2012 12:51:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy BTW... I've never...in 45+ years, had a religious witness come to my door or approach me in a public place and and not politely leave when I said no thank you or not today. Do you really think these people really just walked up rang his doorbell and engaged him in polite conversation? How did they know his name and occupation?

epiphiny43 -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/10/2012 1:38:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy BTW... I've never...in 45+ years, had a religious witness come to my door or approach me in a public place and and not politely leave when I said no thank you or not today. Just as I thought. We really do live in different universes.

Lucylastic -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/10/2012 4:57:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: I support a woman's right to choose an abortion right up to the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I've never heard it put quite that way before. How would that work? A c-section? Induced labor? It might take a vaginal ultrasound to work out the best method. [8\|] I seem to recall it was once called a partial-birth abortion, but I bet they changed the name of the procedure. Intact dilation and extraction (IDX) is a type of late term abortion. It is also known as intact dilation and evacuation, dilation and extraction (D&X, or DNX), intrauterine cranial decompression and, vernacularly in the United States, as partial birth abortion. The procedure may also be used to remove a fetus that is developed enough to require dilation of the cervix for its extraction.[1] Though the procedure has had a low rate of use, representing 0.17% (2,232 of 1,313,000) of all abortions in the United States in the year 2000, according to voluntary responses to an Alan Guttmacher Institute survey,[2] it has developed into a focal point of the abortion debate. In the United States, intact dilation and extraction was made illegal in most circumstances by the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act in 2003, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction this ........and some wonder why they cant be taken seriously .. seriously Rich, late term abortion is the same as adopting out a preemie??[X(][:@]

Hillwilliam -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/10/2012 5:42:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy BTW... I've never...in 45+ years, had a religious witness come to my door or approach me in a public place and and not politely leave when I said no thank you or not today. I have, over and over and over and over, every fucking week for months until I finally had enough and answered the door in my underwear, yelled at them and let the dog snap at their faces from the end of his leash. It's a good thing they didn't have a videographer with them because between the barking, lunging and snarling, there were some of the most creative uses of profanity I have ever managed. They didn't come back.

dcnovice -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/10/2012 6:05:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: I support a woman's right to choose an abortion right up to the moment we can just adopt out a preemie. I've never heard it put quite that way before. How would that work? A c-section? Induced labor? It might take a vaginal ultrasound to work out the best method. [8\|] I seem to recall it was once called a partial-birth abortion, but I bet they changed the name of the procedure. I was actually asking quite earnestly. "Adopting out a premie" would seem to require some way of taking the baby safely from its mother's womb, and I wasn't sure what that would be. Perhaps I misunderstood you?

dcnovice -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/10/2012 6:07:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy BTW... I've never...in 45+ years, had a religious witness come to my door or approach me in a public place and and not politely leave when I said no thank you or not today. That's good to hear. How often have they brought a videographer along, though?

kalikshama -> RE: An abortionist talks too much (8/10/2012 6:25:02 AM)
quote: To my mind, the first person to raise their voice in a debate is wrong. To my mind, one online equivalent of that is calling someone a cunt. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/upfiles/1271250/816AF001DF284EF190A5E5FD7505785E.jpg[/image]

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