Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (Full Version)

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JDee -> Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 6:06:07 AM)

Hi everyone,

Basically my question is this: Is having played in the pro scene a plus or a minus in terms of a sub hoping to "make it" in the lifestyle scene?

I always used to think it could only ever be a plus, and looked on the money I spent on sessions as an investment that would one day pay off in the form of a hotter sex life. Once upon a time I used to be incredibly shy, even embarrassed, about my sexuality. I knew I was different, but could not articulate anything about how I was different. This was even so when I was negotiating my first professional session. As I did them I became more comfortable with who I was, got experience with negotiating a scene, and learned a little about all the different types of play that kinky people do (important for me because I don't watch porn and so had no idea what the popular fetishes were).

Doing a few sessions also confirmed what I already knew, which was that I would never be happy in a vanilla relationship. So I got into the lifestyle scene, met a lot of weird and wonderful people, went to some insane parties, plus had some great relationships that were a blast while they lasted.

I never made a secret of the fact that I had played in the pro scene, but never told anyone about it unless they asked me. Not really because I was ashamed of it or anything, but for the same reason as I don't dwell on previous relationships, flings or one night stands. So almost no-one knew / knows.

During that time though, I had one conversation that stands out in my memory. It was with a lifestyle sub who is now married to his Domme. He believed the total opposite of what I did about doing professional sessions. According to him, they "spoiled" subs by letting them develop bad habits that a Domme would not put up with in a lifestyle context, but that would be permitted in a professional context e.g. topping from the bottom, giving "scripts" for the Domme to follow, not thinking about what the Domme wants out of a session, developing a laundry list of limits, being able to dictate what clothes the Domme would wear, exactly what play would happen etc.

I thought about this, and went back over the ways that I had behaved with professional Dommes that I had seen. To be honest, I think for the very first few sessions that I ever did, I was kind of like that in some ways. But I quickly got sick of it and found that I liked giving very vague outlines of a session and then seeing what the Domme would come up with. I also realized that I didn't care at all what the Domme wore to the session. And I found myself thinking about what would make my Domme enjoy the session more.

But after that, I got a job as a receptionist at an SM parlor. During that time I got to read a lot of emails from clients and potential clients, as well as talk to the Dommes about their sessions. I got to see that there was a lot of this kind of "spoiled" behavior from clients, even regular ones.

Do people here think that professional sessions "corrupt" subs by letting them behave in ways that they couldn't if the Domme didn't have a financial incentive to keep the "relationship" going? Or is it just that the pro scene attracts this kind of sub?

This question has been on my mind a lot lately because I am just out of a relationship with a lifestyle Domme. I can't help wondering if the break up was partly because most of my first BDSM experiences were with Pro Dommes, and that I am now "spoiled" and too used to treating my Domme like an employee instead of a partner. I do like role-play but strongly prefer to do it with just one sentence character descriptions for each of us and just improvise the rest.

Also I am thinking of indulging in some Pro Domming now that I am newly single. I am definitely feeling more like some no strings fun than another relationship. But I'm holding back because I worry that professional play will turn me into a "spoiled" sub. Are my fears justified? Yes, no, or in some cases but not others? If the final option, then what does it depend on?

Thanks for reading such a long post and I'd be happy to hear everyone's thoughts on this :)



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 6:32:04 AM)

Tl,dr.

Lots of men see pro doms and are perfectly successful in the scene if they want to be. Doms are amazingly cranky when men try to be the boss of them, and are not shy about letting them know. Annoy a woman, get kicked to the curb. Simples!




LadyConstanze -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 6:42:29 AM)

It depends a lot how you approach them, but it seems as a receptionist you really paid your dues ;)



Lucifyre -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 6:43:38 AM)

My thoughts are that each person takes away from every situation differently. The fact that you were able to overcome something in your life that was blocking you from being a better you is wonderful! But the reality is, a lot of people who see pro Dommes look at it as a service, it's thier money and they are paying for a service. Yes, it probably does "spoil" it for some, but that's thier take away and sadly those guys will likely never really get the full potential out of the /s side. But for folks like you who truely learned from your experience, you managed to give yourself a nice gift...you got a sort of an education in something you are really interested in. Only you have the ability to decide where it takes you from here. The spoiled ones won't get very far and will only get out of it what they see thier wallets getting for them....sad for them, good for you ;)


Lucifyre



JDee -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 6:47:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Doms are amazingly cranky when men try to be the boss of them, and are not shy about letting them know. Annoy a woman, get kicked to the curb. Simples!



When I worked as an SM parlor receptionist, I saw some Pro Dommes with an amazing ability to put up with crap as long as the $$$ kept coming in.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 6:50:35 AM)

JDee, regarding the crap we get into our inboxes on a daily basis, I can see you shine like a beacon of hope.

The best bet for you would be to go to munches and life-style events because you connect as people first.



LadyPact -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 7:37:37 AM)

I'm going to be in the minority on this one, but I see it as a huge minus. It is very much like engaging an escort for sex and believing that is what a relationship is supposed to be.

I'm not so much opposed to someone who has seen a pro to see if their desires are genuine. I can hang with that. Men don't always get the same opportunities as women do for casual play to check things out. Once you've done that research to know that you want kink or power exchange as a part of your life, it's time to put that data into good use and move forward.




Lucifyre -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 7:54:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm going to be in the minority on this one, but I see it as a huge minus. It is very much like engaging an escort for sex and believing that is what a relationship is supposed to be.

I'm not so much opposed to someone who has seen a pro to see if their desires are genuine. I can hang with that. Men don't always get the same opportunities as women do for casual play to check things out. Once you've done that research to know that you want kink or power exchange as a part of your life, it's time to put that data into good use and move forward.




That's what I got out of his post tho LadyP. That he did actually do some real learning.

Maybe I'm just being optomistic.

Lucifyre



JDee -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 8:02:50 AM)

quote:

JDee, regarding the crap we get into our inboxes on a daily basis, I can see you shine like a beacon of hope.

I've seen these emails. Glad to hear I'm not like them. Though an idealistic part of me would like to think that they are diamonds in the rough and just don't know how to express themselves yet.

quote:

The best bet for you would be to go to munches and life-style events because you connect as people first.

You've got a point. The normal protocol for clients visiting an SM parlor if they don't have a regular Domme there is (at least for me) another drawback of the pro scene. A bit too much like speed dating.

quote:

I'm not so much opposed to someone who has seen a pro to see if their desires are genuine. I can hang with that. Men don't always get the same opportunities as women do for casual play to check things out. Once you've done that research to know that you want kink or power exchange as a part of your life, it's time to put that data into good use and move forward.


I kind of did that. Went for the first time to see if my desires were genuine. After that I went a few more times until I could talk confidently about my desires (I was ultra-shy in the beginning). Then I started getting involved in the lifestyle scene and have been for years. Now things have come full circle: I've just broken up with my girlfriend / lifestyle Domme (fairly amicably but even if you stay best friends a breakup is a breakup) and am suffering from relationship burn-out.



MissToYouRedux -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 8:53:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JDee

I kind of did that. Went for the first time to see if my desires were genuine. After that I went a few more times until I could talk confidently about my desires (I was ultra-shy in the beginning). Then I started getting involved in the lifestyle scene and have been for years. Now things have come full circle: I've just broken up with my girlfriend / lifestyle Domme (fairly amicably but even if you stay best friends a breakup is a breakup) and am suffering from relationship burn-out.


You seem to have a rational reason for doing what you want to do so long as you don't conflate the going backwards (IMO) as something that's a positive for future lifestyle relationships. You should have already learned that it's apples and oranges.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 9:10:14 AM)

You know, a guy who's into something, it's a lot more difficult for him to find it, so if he scratches that itch with a pro domme and understands that it's quite different from a life-style relationship, I seriously think that is commendable, I have a lot more respect for a guy who does that than one of the usual "Here's my laundry list" guys who spam our inboxes with the actions they want us to perform for "our pleasure" and then go on and on about how they can't find somebody.



DarkSteven -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 10:05:40 AM)

Fella, you're concentrating on the small stuff. 90+% of the mail Dommes get is from do-me subs. You're looking for a LTR AND you're focused on what your to-be-Domme would want. You actually got a job as a receptionist to do research.

You're WAY ahead of the vast majority of Domme-hunters.



Tantriqu -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 1:41:28 PM)

I'm with Lady P: it's a big ole' red flag.
I don't tolerate topping from the bottom, do-me or switchy behaviour, or basement-wankers' ideas of what dommes do. So if a guy engages in prostitution [illegal here] and buys his kicks, expects to be able to direct wardrobe let alone sex, and has a non-mutual fetish to feed : that's three whole strikes right there.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 2:49:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

I'm with Lady P: it's a big ole' red flag.
I don't tolerate topping from the bottom, do-me or switchy behaviour, or basement-wankers' ideas of what dommes do. So if a guy engages in prostitution [illegal here] and buys his kicks, expects to be able to direct wardrobe let alone sex, and has a non-mutual fetish to feed : that's three whole strikes right there.


Maybe you've been in more and different pro dommes sessions than I have that you know that it's prostitution? Because in pro-domme sessions usually no sex happens, and most pro dommes also don't put up with that kinda stuff, the difference is they have to be good and technically skilled, or else the guys don't come back for whippings or bondage. Now if you think that what you do is not illegal, have a think again... Spanking or whipping? Technically assault, and illegal...

I hate to break it to you, but most of what we do can be constructed as illegal, doesn't that really suck?



LadyPact -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 2:58:05 PM)

Lady C, it's just the easiest comparison that people will understand. Prostitution is to relationship like pro domme is to living a dynamic. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but is it really the whole picture?





OttersSwim -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 3:24:14 PM)

I do believe that there needs to be an exploration of the -context- under which the male chose to see the Pro.

Was the male in a relationship at the time and did the wife/girlfriend know?

What did the male see the Pro for?

How is the male representing that experience?

I mean, in the Denver area, many of the Pros are also lifestyle and one in particular many many people in our community have played with - both lifestyle and professionally. She is well known, well liked in most circles and is, IMO, a really great person and a very positive contributor to the overall Denver Scene.

I don't believe that anyone seeing her would come away with a "porn or fantasy" impression of WIIWD.

So I just don't know that it would/should be an absolute negative...there is context...

A nice guy goes to see a Pro...he is not betraying anyone...does it to address something he needs in his life...and hopefully comes away from the experience with a positive outlook and understands that there is a wider world out there and what he has experienced is only a facet of a much larger thing.

It's a bit like the gender thing - it requires some examination in my opinion.




LadyConstanze -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 3:46:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Lady C, it's just the easiest comparison that people will understand. Prostitution is to relationship like pro domme is to living a dynamic. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but is it really the whole picture?





Well, actually I think in this the context was

quote:

I don't tolerate topping from the bottom, do-me or switchy behaviour, or basement-wankers' ideas of what dommes do. So if a guy engages in prostitution [illegal here] and buys his kicks, expects to be able to direct wardrobe let alone sex, and has a non-mutual fetish to feed : that's three whole strikes right there.


Which is simply complete and utter BS, it's an ignorant idea what prodommes do and tolerate.

Apart from that, there are tons of life-style "relationships" that aren't relationships, money might not change hands but the guy buys her this or that, does her tax, does her garden in exchange for the domination - doesn't really mean it's a real relationship.

Personally I am staying away from the life-stylers in my area, because it's really more like a swinger club with kink, the same people who fuck around without much protection and pretty much like a bunch of rabbits look down on pros and also see fit to call them prostitutes. Sorry, but almost every pro domme I've ever met has more morals and handles her personal sex life with more responsibility.

Apart from that, Otter's post is really spot on. A guy who has certain desires and checks them out in a professional environment under safe conditions before he makes an informed choice - I prefer that 100% to the guys who sneak behind their wives' backs or how come here and expect to get their rocks off, just because they joined a kink site.

Seriously, if I was single, 10 years younger and in his area, I'd definitely would want to meet him! He sounds like a catch!



PeonForHer -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 4:09:13 PM)

The main thing I'd be concerned about, JDee, is that a pro-Domme might be used to being a servant rather than a domme. That is, she might have become too used to providing a service to clients rather than dominating them. But I haven't met enough ex pro dommes to know if that's a realistic concern.

However, I'm coming to the belief that if an ex pro domme has retained her original prickliness and bad temper, she probably still knows how to dominate despite her pro experience in the past. Prickliness and bad temper are, of course, the hallmarks of any true female dominant.




OttersSwim -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 4:23:02 PM)

Maybe on your side of the pond buddy, but our Dominant Ladies wear flowered bloomers and ribbons in their hair and cry things like BRING IT! :P



FrostedFlake -> RE: Lifestyle subs who have seen Pro Dommes: + or -? (8/10/2012 4:23:24 PM)

Apple, meet Orange.



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