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RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 6:20:30 PM   
SWDesertDom


Posts: 231
Joined: 4/5/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

What? You really need to give some examples here, because I have no idea what you are talking about. I have posted plenty of criticisms of dating on CM, which I have used off and on for years. But, other than scammer profiles, almost all the women I've spoken with, and met, have been honest and direct.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Rejecting you isn't passive aggressive.

I do understand that getting either a no thanks, or no response is frustrating but it is not an example of passive aggressive behavior. It's straight forward rejection.

And if you can't deal with it then maybe you don't belong online,. Moreover if this is your response to aggression, then it tells me that you are overinvested in getting a response from this person. You don't know them. You may be imagining that they would be a perfect partner for you judging by a two paragraph profile but that's your fantasy. It is not reality.

Honestly, if you can't just send a quick email without worrying over it and thinking about it over and over, then you need to learn healthier boundaries. And, once you have them, you'll discover that you will get more responses and from a higher caliber of partner who is equally healthy.


No thanks is not passive agressive. "Deleted unread" is. No response is. Talking to someone for several weeks and then an abrupt "user has blocked you" or the cone of silence is. I can handle rejection just fine. It feels a whole lot better than being treated like you don't exist.

I understand there are legitimate reasons for it. In fact it's a vicious circle. Because half the e-mails I send (unsolicited) will never be read, and presumably similar results apply to others (yes, I know that you can preview an email by hovering over it), the impetus for writing a well crafted e-mail is pretty low (I try anyway). If you know your opening e-mail will probably never be read, why would you want to spend 15-20 minutes crafting something unique and personal? Therefore female submissives are besieged by a tide of cut/paste e-mail. If you know the only way to catch someone's attention is to cast as wide a net as possible, you'll do so in an efficient manner.

On one hand, the female submissives are besieged by a tide of morons, assholes, trolls and sock puppets (not to mention cock shots). On the other end, the male doms have to find some way to stand out from that tide of crap, and it's not necessarily easy. Dealing with all of that is frustrating, and in response, some (ordinary) people are going to behave poorly. Ignoring people may be the easiest form of rejection to manage, but it's still rude. After being rude (in a mild way) to people all day long, it shouldn't really be a surprise that some people are rude back (not to mention, the assholes, ever present, are ALWAYS going to be rude, it's why they're here). I also understand that the assholes tend to latch onto any response, and hurl insults.

I am, in fact, having some measure of success, but that doesn't mean I haven't had to pour an enormous amount of effort into it. If I spent 20 minutes a day on the site, I'd never have even gotten to the point of getting any real response by now.

The point of the original topic was "How I know you are a shitty dom" The point of my post is if you've already made clear (and likely in a mildly rude manner) that someone has Zero future with you, it's hardly unexpected when they are rude back. To them, it's probably the equivalent of pounding their fists into the wall in frustration (after all, you've already made clear that bridge is long since burned).

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 6:28:01 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I borrowed this from a young lady named magdalena82. It's entitled "How I Know You're a Shitty Dom".



You are pushy, even when you barely know me.

Your first message to me is a generic copy and paste job you send to every single female you come across.

Your first message to me is you telling me I would a) better serve you by being on my knees and naked, or b) be smart to address you as Sir or Lord.

Your first message to me includes a pejorative such as bitch or slut.

You attempt to make me feel guilty when I don't do exactly what you say or answer you quickly enough or at all.

You insult me when I don't return your amour (has that ever made a sub want you, really?).

You consider D/s an escape from vanilla life where you have poor interpersonal relations.

You ask to talk on the phone or meet within a few exchanges, and get angry when I tell you I am not comfortable with that yet.

You consider experienced subs "jaded" and prefer the company of newbies under the guise of "teaching and guiding" them. The reality is they are the only ones who don't know you are full of shit.

When I give you my limits you immediately disregard or attempt to cross them. This is not you being Dominant, this is you being a disrespectful asshole.

You tell me "good" subs have few/no limits.

You ask things of me which you would never consider reciprocating (e.g oral sex, massages, rimming, foot worship, housework, etc).

You consider D/s a sexual relationship only, and your messages become very sexual quickly.

You view Fetlife and fetish events as a meatmarket.

You tell me I am not collared because I haven't found a "real" Dom yet (i.e. you). It isn't going to get you very far if you insult my past partners, whom I still love and respect. You are implying I have poor judgement, which I don't.

You expect me to be monogamous to you yet you immediately tell me you want a passel of slaves, implying you are just too much of a Dommy Dom to not share yourself with a multitude of women.

I could go on and on, and will add to this list as my experiences with finding a suitable partner continue. Rest assured I laugh every day at the absurdity of some men I come across!



Steven,

WTF has this got to do with wimmens sending incredibly suggestive photos to subs?

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 6:34:28 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWDesertDom

No thanks is not passive agressive. "Deleted unread" is.

Where is the "aggressive" part of deleting something unread? That sounds passively passive to me. Aggression requires intimidation, attack, something that gets in your face.

In case you care, if someone deletes unread an email I send, I hide her profile, and delete the message I sent. She's no longer on my version of the web site. If she writes me at some point in the future, I can always unhide her. But I have no energy available to spend on people who are not interested in me.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SWDesertDom)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 6:51:42 PM   
SWDesertDom


Posts: 231
Joined: 4/5/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Where is the "aggressive" part of deleting something unread? That sounds passively passive to me. Aggression requires intimidation, attack, something that gets in your face.

In case you care, if someone deletes unread an email I send, I hide her profile, and delete the message I sent. She's no longer on my version of the web site. If she writes me at some point in the future, I can always unhide her. But I have no energy available to spend on people who are not interested in me.


Okay, regardless of whether you call it passive/aggressive or whatever, it's still rude. It took an action on your part, and probably saved a negligible amount of time over "no thanks." When it took place almost instantly, you may as well have pressed a button that replied "go fuck yourself."

And for what it's worth, I do pretty much the same thing, except I don't delete the e-mail, in case I ever want to know what the hell I said. It still rankles a good bit, but time is short, move on...

This wasn't about what I do, it's about what other people do. If you are going to use rude methods to get rid of people, you should probably expect some rudeness in return (from ordinary people).

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:08:38 PM   
Lucifyre


Posts: 1067
Joined: 3/27/2012
Status: offline
It's probably because I don't get much mail on the other side but I try to answer ALL of the CMail I get. But my view is that it is rude just to delete unread and think that's an acceptable response. For the women who get overwhelmed with Cmails every day I can understand not typing out an actual response to every single mail they get, but being on a kinky site (or any dating site for that matter) IMO women should expect it and have a method for dealing with it that isn't so cunty.

Deleted unread should be saved for the morons that send shit like "Nice tits Baby, wanna fuk?" I'm sure there are plenty and with the nice feature of being able to mouse over a mail before opening it, those can be spotted pretty easily and can be deleted unread and be justified. There really are some guys that try very hard to make a nice impression and at leat for the effort they put into gathering the courage to send mail in the first place deserve at least a "not interested". And holy shit wouldn't you know it? Theres a button that says JUST THAT! Of course there will be the backlash of "well you;re a fat stupid bitch" anyway from douchebags that can't handle rejection, then that's the time to use the block button.
And if women don't want the mails to begin with they also have the option of hiding thier profiles entirely.

As usual, this is just my opinion and should not be construed as actual advice ;)
I'm not a therapist, I just play one on TV!

Lucifyre

Edit to add...I have sent my fair share of rude responses to morons that just can't clue in...I just so happen to get a laugh out of it and it gives me an outlet for when I'm feeling a little cunty myself.

< Message edited by Lucifyre -- 8/18/2012 7:10:07 PM >


_____________________________

"Batteries? OMG, Bitch Please! My Shit plugs in!"
I do this because it fucking feels good.
I like girls who like girls
The thing about standards is: There are SO many to choose from.

(in reply to SWDesertDom)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:10:59 PM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline
Youre right - I normally dont delete/unread messages - I usually type out the reply: GO FUCK YOURSELF. Its a tad bit nicer.

< Message edited by JanahX -- 8/18/2012 7:11:14 PM >


_____________________________

The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


(in reply to Lucifyre)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:14:36 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
I don't delete unread either. I open it so I can click the button that says "Report as spam and delete."

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to JanahX)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:20:21 PM   
SWDesertDom


Posts: 231
Joined: 4/5/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I don't delete unread either. I open it so I can click the button that says "Report as spam and delete."


Now I'm afraid to even read your profile, for fear you might get me deleted from the site by having you and fifty other people report me :P

Of course, you already know my username and could do that anyway...

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:24:08 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
You wouldn't get deleted from the site. Your mail might get frozen for awhile, but you wouldn't get the boot.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to SWDesertDom)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:25:44 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I don't delete unread either. I open it so I can click the button that says "Report as spam and delete."

Here's a story that happened between my last stint on the boards and now.

I was taking a trip a couple months ago, out of state, and I wanted to meet some local women where I was going to be. So I emailed women in my destination area. I must have come off like a lech to someone (even though in my mind, meet didn't necessarily mean "meet"), and I got dropped in the spam filter for 24 hours. So all my emails, to everyone, had that *spam filter activated* message at the top. Bad me.

And, even so, several women still wrote me back! It's really hard for me to get my head around these comments from men about women never responding, or their lack of response being rude, or an attack. There are lots of women on the kinky internet, and a lot of them are lonely, or horny, or hoping against hope they'll find something amazing here. Men who blame women for lack of response could spend their energy on figuring out why they aren't getting a response, and changing their approach.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:26:42 PM   
mcbride


Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucifyre

It's probably because I don't get much mail on the other side but I try to answer ALL of the CMail I get. But my view is that it is rude just to delete unread and think that's an acceptable response. For the women who get overwhelmed with Cmails every day I can understand not typing out an actual response to every single mail they get, but being on a kinky site (or any dating site for that matter) IMO women should expect it and have a method for dealing with it that isn't so cunty.


My compliments to your mother for doing a fine job. :)

(in reply to Lucifyre)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:27:59 PM   
Jaquin


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/12/2011
Status: offline
What there's email on this site?

I've gotten like one 'dom' message (rest of them were comments on something I've posted here) and well we just didn't mix. My city just isn't really represented on this site.

As for the list, a friend of mine sent me lists of "wannabe subs" and "wannabe doms" which are clearly humorous and intended more as jokes rather then any kind of filter. At least I thought they were funny.

_____________________________

"The feeling of freedom, and freedom denied."

(in reply to Lucifyre)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:31:12 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Men who blame women for lack of response could spend their energy on figuring out why they aren't getting a response, and changing their approach.


QFT.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:34:58 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaquin

What there's email on this site?

I just perved your profile.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Jaquin)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:35:50 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaquin

What there's email on this site?

I just perved your profile.


Ditto.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:40:17 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWDesertDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

What? You really need to give some examples here, because I have no idea what you are talking about. I have posted plenty of criticisms of dating on CM, which I have used off and on for years. But, other than scammer profiles, almost all the women I've spoken with, and met, have been honest and direct.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Rejecting you isn't passive aggressive.

I do understand that getting either a no thanks, or no response is frustrating but it is not an example of passive aggressive behavior. It's straight forward rejection.

And if you can't deal with it then maybe you don't belong online,. Moreover if this is your response to aggression, then it tells me that you are overinvested in getting a response from this person. You don't know them. You may be imagining that they would be a perfect partner for you judging by a two paragraph profile but that's your fantasy. It is not reality.

Honestly, if you can't just send a quick email without worrying over it and thinking about it over and over, then you need to learn healthier boundaries. And, once you have them, you'll discover that you will get more responses and from a higher caliber of partner who is equally healthy.


No thanks is not passive agressive. "Deleted unread" is. No response is. Talking to someone for several weeks and then an abrupt "user has blocked you" or the cone of silence is. I can handle rejection just fine. It feels a whole lot better than being treated like you don't exist.

I understand there are legitimate reasons for it. In fact it's a vicious circle. Because half the e-mails I send (unsolicited) will never be read, and presumably similar results apply to others (yes, I know that you can preview an email by hovering over it), the impetus for writing a well crafted e-mail is pretty low (I try anyway). If you know your opening e-mail will probably never be read, why would you want to spend 15-20 minutes crafting something unique and personal? Therefore female submissives are besieged by a tide of cut/paste e-mail. If you know the only way to catch someone's attention is to cast as wide a net as possible, you'll do so in an efficient manner.

On one hand, the female submissives are besieged by a tide of morons, assholes, trolls and sock puppets (not to mention cock shots). On the other end, the male doms have to find some way to stand out from that tide of crap, and it's not necessarily easy. Dealing with all of that is frustrating, and in response, some (ordinary) people are going to behave poorly. Ignoring people may be the easiest form of rejection to manage, but it's still rude. After being rude (in a mild way) to people all day long, it shouldn't really be a surprise that some people are rude back (not to mention, the assholes, ever present, are ALWAYS going to be rude, it's why they're here). I also understand that the assholes tend to latch onto any response, and hurl insults.

I am, in fact, having some measure of success, but that doesn't mean I haven't had to pour an enormous amount of effort into it. If I spent 20 minutes a day on the site, I'd never have even gotten to the point of getting any real response by now.

The point of the original topic was "How I know you are a shitty dom" The point of my post is if you've already made clear (and likely in a mildly rude manner) that someone has Zero future with you, it's hardly unexpected when they are rude back. To them, it's probably the equivalent of pounding their fists into the wall in frustration (after all, you've already made clear that bridge is long since burned).


I actually do have empathy for guys who do write a nice email each time and then never hear a thing back. I always reply to nice emails or compliments.

The thing is though...I almost never get a nice email; it is always some idiotic or inappropriate thing, or they are nice and live too far away, or they are married, or they come on too strong, or they write you every few weeks or months, thinking that you do not know how to read the message history or you will not remember them.

That is why I really don't have any, let alone low, expectations of meeting someone online from here.

I just keep my profile up, hoping someone will find me but I do not search.

I just like hanging out here on this side; it is way more fun.

(in reply to SWDesertDom)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:42:38 PM   
SWDesertDom


Posts: 231
Joined: 4/5/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Men who blame women for lack of response could spend their energy on figuring out why they aren't getting a response, and changing their approach.


QFT.


Quoted for untruth.

If all you get is no response, you have no clue what needs to change. If you just start wildly experimenting, you're likely to hit on false positives.

As a counterpoint, I have a useless sock puppet of an account, with all kinds of jackass stuff in the profile, that I only created to get into contact with a woman who inadvertently blocked me (and then complained in her journal about how I just up and disappeared on her; for the record, we are talking again just fine). All it does is sit there and loom menacingly, and it gets 2x the response the real me gets.

This sort of idiocy is likely one of (not the only, just ONE of) the reasons there are so many assholes on the site, being an asshole gets attention. If you are getting no attention at all, you're liable to hit on being a jackass in your flailing around for attention. I doubt any of the attention my sock puppet gets is remotely sincere, but to someone getting no attention at all, it's likely to seem like success.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 7:50:00 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWDesertDom
If all you get is no response, you have no clue what needs to change.

There is a *ton* of advice online about how to improve your chances at online dating. How much of it have you read and tried to incorporate into what you do here? How many of your emails have you shown to female friends, and asked them to critique? How many women have you asked for profile advice?

If you have impressive, convincing answers to all these questions, then I am indeed untruthing you. If your answers sound more like "Well, uh..." then you're accusing me of lying, instead of taking personal responsibility for your situation.

Here's a great place to start. http://www.collarchat.com/m_1717756/mpage_1/tm.htm

God luck.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SWDesertDom)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 8:00:33 PM   
Lucifyre


Posts: 1067
Joined: 3/27/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucifyre

It's probably because I don't get much mail on the other side but I try to answer ALL of the CMail I get. But my view is that it is rude just to delete unread and think that's an acceptable response. For the women who get overwhelmed with Cmails every day I can understand not typing out an actual response to every single mail they get, but being on a kinky site (or any dating site for that matter) IMO women should expect it and have a method for dealing with it that isn't so cunty.


My compliments to your mother for doing a fine job. :)



Uhm...thanks, I think :)

For the record, neither of my parents had anything to do with how I turned out as an adult...but that's a story for offtopic discussion and possibly it's own unique forum LOL

Lucifyre

_____________________________

"Batteries? OMG, Bitch Please! My Shit plugs in!"
I do this because it fucking feels good.
I like girls who like girls
The thing about standards is: There are SO many to choose from.

(in reply to mcbride)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: For new subs. - 8/18/2012 8:00:43 PM   
SWDesertDom


Posts: 231
Joined: 4/5/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


quote:

ORIGINAL: SWDesertDom
If all you get is no response, you have no clue what needs to change.

There is a *ton* of advice online about how to improve your chances at online dating. How much of it have you read and tried to incorporate into what you do here? How many of your emails have you shown to female friends, and asked them to critique? How many women have you asked for profile advice?

If you have impressive, convincing answers to all these questions, then I am indeed untruthing you. If your answers sound more like "Well, uh..." then you're accusing me of lying, instead of taking personal responsibility for your situation.

Here's a great place to start. http://www.collarchat.com/m_1717756/mpage_1/tm.htm

God luck.


Again. I do, in fact, get a sufficient positive response rate to continue working. I have, in fact, met women off of this site in person. I'm not, in fact, expecting instant success. I am generally happy with the site so far, though it is an intimidating amount of work for the level of response. Based on those who HAVE given a response other than "go fuck yourself" (or virtual equivalents therof) much of my uphill climb may be due to location. If NOBODY told me that the reason they won't talk to me is they don't want to live in the middle of nowhere, I might not have a clue that was a major issue. Since I expected up front that may be a significant barrier, and people HAVE responded and nicely told me such, confirming my suspicions, then I can learn and move on.

I am arguing about general issues. You keep conflating everything I'm saying in general with me in specific. Yes, some of what I am talking about is extrapolation from experience, but I'm not a moron.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 60
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