RE: Inclusiveness re-done

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kiwisub12 -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/14/2012 3:53:38 PM)
The local groups i belong to are inclusive in that we all practise to one degree or another activities that fall under the BDSM umbrella. That is cool with me. Illegal activites such as those in the OP are very cool for me to be excluded - and yeah, i know, we are practising an illegal activity , but the idea of consent comes into play. I look upon the local groups like i do my quilting guild - a group that i belong to and practise. I have quilting friends and i have BDSM friends - and the reason we are friends is because there is something between us that enables me to enjoy their company. IF they didn't quilt or didn't spank, we would still be friends - just with different topics of conversation. (though i have to say, i seem to be talking to a whole lot of people about the 50 Shades of Grey book. [8\|] - mainly because i read a lot) People that rape, or murder or hurt children are not people that i would have common ground with.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/14/2012 5:36:39 PM)
People who say, "I like dogs!" are seldom referring to junkyard dogs.

LizDeluxe -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/14/2012 5:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic Don't you think it's obvious that inclusiveness doesn't include these absurdly obvious things that clearly shouldn't be tolerated? It should be obvious to anyone with a triple digit IQ but clearly everyone in the bdsm community does not possess that. There are days when I feel as though I am one of only a very few who do. It's the same logic that compels some folks to list bestiality and pedophilia as limits. Do we really need to list those things? Wouldn't they be a given? Someone once told me it's because some people see them as kinks and not as crimes. I would feel slimy if I had to list those items. To answer your main question, this community is no more or less inclusive than society in general. People are constantly debating why their kink is somehow more correct than the next person's kink. This is basic human nature. No reason to expect kinksters to behave any differently in a dungeon than they would hanging around the office cooler.

OddBall -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/14/2012 5:53:30 PM)
I wonder if some of the disagreement is over how broadly one views inclusiveness. I think of it in a basic way. Simple courtesy to another. Be they just a neighbor at a community function or someone with an interest in some aspect(s) under the bdsm umbrella attending an event or munch. It seems some view it like a forceable attempt at automatic entry to their ring of close friends or family. Or in the example below from MissImmortalPain, equating it to someone pushing their way into an MC's clubhouse. I know you never said anything about motorcycle clubs but proving oneself to the group is a standard of their operating procedures. In that same vein i wave to other cyclists as we pass to acknowledge them and their kindred interest. Doesn't mean I'd let them walk into my house uninvited however. MissImmortalPain, Your last line makes me think of something I saw once. "Come to the Dark Side, We have cookies" quote: ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain Karmastic, I will explain what I believe the word "inclusiveness" means to me if you tell me if you think a message board is really part of the bdsm "community" I ask because I have been part of a/the/a few bdsm communitys over the last few decades and let me tell you hon more than a few of them were and still are very inclusive. They don't believe at all that people should just be allowed to be part of the group without first proving they have a reason to be there. And if my son can figure out that no matter how hard he trys he will never fit into every group, gang, gathering, "community", etc. I would think every other adult could figure that out too. After all my son is 15 how old does a person have to get before they figure out that no we are not all just going to get along? Said while smiling and typed with sunshine and brightness...I swear p.s As for society. It can shun me all it wants. I bring more and more people over to the darkside each day so I'm not worried.

Karmastic -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/14/2012 6:10:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain Karmastic, I will explain what I believe the word "inclusiveness" means to me if you tell me if you think a message board is really part of the bdsm "community" I ask because I have been part of a/the/a few bdsm communitys over the last few decades and let me tell you hon more than a few of them were and still are very inclusive. They don't believe at all that people should just be allowed to be part of the group without first proving they have a reason to be there. Now don't get me wrong I have seen all of the threads and comments suggesting that people be nicer when it comes to new folks posting and I agree at times we could all stand a spoon full of sugar but....but...but....really (In my opinion) if my son can figure out how to run a search on any given web page to see if he can find something before he starts complaining to the people that run the site(or worse the posters who have no control over anything) so can every other adult that uses the net. And if my son can figure out that no matter how hard he trys he will never fit into every group, gang, gathering, "community", etc. I would think every other adult could figure that out too. After all my son is 15 how old does a person have to get before they figure out that no we are not all just going to get along? Said while smiling and typed with sunshine and brightness...I swear p.s As for society. It can shun me all it wants. I bring more and more people over to the darkside each day so I'm not worried. thanks for your answer. in answer to your question, i think this board is a virtual "accoutrement" (lack of better word) of BDSM, and is a tool for networking and communicating about a like minded topic, BDSM. but, boards can also be communities in themselves, and with enough regulars, i think this one sort is. please, don't ask me to define what that means, which has been hashed in other threads.

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/14/2012 7:22:31 PM)
Back in my late teens, early twenties I was really, really, really into alternative music... all types, underground industrial, hardcore, extreme metal. I went to a lot of shows, I knew a lot of musicians... and I figured out then that those who identified with those scenes, obviously didn't like those in the other music scenes and I started quoting to people "Conform to my non-conformity or be a conformist". I have also been involved in artistic communities, spiritual communities, and a long, long time ago academia/intellectual communities. None of these are groups which I actually felt as if I were part of... there were just individuals who had similar interests, some of who were members of these various communities. For the last six years or so... I have actually identified my interests within this "community" (yes, I was late to identify what it was that I was doing, call me dense, hell, call me Ishmael for that matter) and though this area has a fucking intense, active community, I would not identify myself as part of it. Should the community be inclusive? Hell, as it was pointed out, this is a message board... I have been a member of other message boards but it didn't make me part of a group. There are those much more involved than me, there are those just discovering this, there are those who just play online for that fucking matter... and to be honest, none of it means shit to me. I am still who I am, I will still seek, learn, discover what I will... and there will be those who teach, those who detract, those who don't mean shit to me. I like this board, I like some of the people I have gotten to know, others, I think are idiots, some people stay, others continue on... The community can be as inclusive or as elitist as it wants, it has very little bearing on me as an individual. Fuck, either way, I will still be an asshole.

MissImmortalPain -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/14/2012 9:18:43 PM)
Odd, you said this very well by giving the example of bikers and I agree with you. I have no issue tipping my hat, so to speak, to other kinky folk but that doesn't mean I want them in my home either or that I consider them part of my "community" And in case you are wondering....I do have cookies. They are in a happy bunny tin that says "poison for my friends" on it. Would you like one ? [;)]

MissImmortalPain -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/14/2012 9:23:27 PM)
I understand what you mean, Karmastic, but I don't think everyone sees it as you do. I do not and never will view a message board as part of my community. You might be right. I might be right. Opinions differ. The nice thing about the net is we are allowed to say what we want be it deep or foolish and it will stand as a record to what kind of people we really are.

LadyPact -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/15/2012 12:07:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic Off and on, there's talk of "inclusiveness" and/or acceptance/tolerance in the BDSM community. I take this to mean that it's hard enough with vanilla society not accepting non-conformity, so that us "weirdos" should stick together as a sort of community, and provide support to each other. This seems to be a natural phenomena for "outcast" groups. Stick together.. no. Learn from one another regardless of orientation? Sure.. why not? I'm not so high and mighty to think I can't learn a thing or three from just about anyone and I'm an opened-minded sort of gal. That said, time is precious in being both finite and limited and more so because none of us know for sure how much of it we're going to get so I'm not going to waste a whole lot of time sifting through sand looking for gems if they aren't fairly consistent in converse with another given humanoid. quote: What boggles my mind is the reaction by some to this. I.e., they feel the need to say hell no, we're not inclusive. Then they give absurd examples of why they aren't inclusive. E.g., rapists, child molesters, or just people doing crazy dangerous or unhealthy shit. Why do you find those examples absurd .. these things permeate our Earth. I think it's important to acknowledge that 'no', those things are not acceptable in society as a whole or in any other community, social grouping or sub-culture. Without that, silence might be seen as to condone rather than condemn those things. The lessor of the evils here is to speak out then move on to the substance of a given thread on the subject. quote: For discussion... Don't you think it's obvious that inclusiveness doesn't include these absurdly obvious things that clearly shouldn't be tolerated? Obvious to who? Rational, insightful people who first dip toes into waters which can quickly become turbulant? Rational and insightful often falls to the wayside in the midst of sub frenzy, chest thumping, enthusiam and eagerness to belong/to be accepted. What is obvious to someone who wants nothing more than to wear a blindfold and believes that dark and titilating is the same as deadly and dangerous. No, I don't think it's obvious because so often we see what we desire to see and fail to see the reality. Talk is cheap and with Internet connections coming in unlimited at $9.95 a month, I don't see a problem with taking a moment and speaking out. Better safe than sorry and even that's iffy. quote: What does inclusiveness mean to you? When used under the BDSM umbrella .. pan-sexual. Exclusive to me would be groups geared towards a singular dynamic or, perhaps orientation as in a submissives only group (there is one on Fet I believe that is strictly female submissive.. so, something along those lines would be exclusive). Rapists, molesters and asshats.. yes, they are excluded and once it is made clear they are excluded, moving on is appropriate and not much more needs to be done but to watch if someone is of the mind to do so. Bita, you are completely fantastic.

limpshorty -> RE: Inclusiveness re-done (8/16/2012 3:51:11 PM)
I freely admit I almost put Conservative Politics on my hard limit list. I did put economics there. limpshorty

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