RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (Full Version)

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ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/17/2012 11:13:02 AM)

I wasn't suggesting that you blindly obey, or that he manipulates you or forces you (well, not in a bad way), so forgive me if I suggested anything like that.

From your posts, my impression is that you two are very well suited to one another. You seem to have each other's back in a way that is to me necessary for good emotional health.

As for the hypothetical situation, I would like to say if I had the decision to cut my own limb off, I would follow his orders over my own gut level decision, but I'm not sure in honesty I can say that.

Now if it was his limb, oh yeah, I would have to go with what I think *he* would want.

We are of the age (50s) when you spend time talking about medical issues and what you would do in certain situations. So we've discussed things and we know what each other wants. Haven't gotten to limb chopping yet though, I'll have to get that on my list of topics. LOL



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/17/2012 11:25:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

My usual "extreme-but realistic" example is commanding her to shave her head.


See and something like that doesn't fall under "extreme" for me at all. I don't understand why it does seem to be extreme for so many people.
If you're going to be somebody's slave, it's self-evident to me that you'd obey a command like that, because there are no even semi-permanent implications to be had from it.
As far as "extremeness" goes, I'd put that one on par with an order to get artificial nails, start/stop wearing make up, change style of dress, or wear a visible collar.

It's merely a temporary change in appearance that has no lasting impact or consequences.



JeffBC -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/17/2012 11:46:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
See and something like that doesn't fall under "extreme" for me at all. I don't understand why it does seem to be extreme for so many people.
If you're going to be somebody's slave, it's self-evident to me that you'd obey a command like that, because there are no even semi-permanent implications to be had from it. As far as "extremeness" goes, I'd put that one on par with an order to get artificial nails, start/stop wearing make up, change style of dress, or wear a visible collar. It's merely a temporary change in appearance that has no lasting impact or consequences.

In my experience, extremity can only be understood in context. Some people jump out of airplanes and to them it's all good clean fun. Carol has a deadly fear of heights (think 4' or more). If SHE jumped out of an airplane it would be "extreme".

In that same vein, I agree with your assessment of shaving her head... and I've even pondered making Carol do it. But honestly, it's a bad idea. If nothing else it's too big a step for someone who is afraid to wear their eternity collar in public because she doesn't want to startle people. For her, this is a core and deeply seated issue and so it's predictably resistant to quick fixes. So I'm taking the slow road on that one.



Alltiedup57 -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/17/2012 12:31:22 PM)

I also want to be pleasing an love to serve an obey.
My ex still lives in my home until housing calls him, an we both have one friend that is more an Alpha type Dom that lives in my home.
We all joke around an the second is teaching me through conversations.
Yet I am not owned an so want to be.

Pleasing the Dom/Domme should come from inside the sub/slave. It's like I was told I am there to serve an be second to thevDom/Domme.
Hopefully, through serving the ppl at home when I meet a Dom/Domme they too will be pleased with my degree of service n obedience .



DesFIP -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/18/2012 5:22:55 PM)

I don't see any problem having emotional transparency and pleasing him at the same time because he has stated outright that he prefers the transparency to me not being able to do a specific act at a specific time. His choice.

About head shaving. It might not be extreme to Ishtarr, but it sure is to a lot of us. Anyone with self esteem issues will have major difficulty being made deliberately ugly. For me it would be degradation and that is destructive to me and to our relationship as it causes me to run away from him. He could tie me down and do it, but I'm likely to run the moment I'm let loose. And fearing and distrusting him, while cringing at the sight of myself, is not how a smart person strengthens a relationship. Just the opposite.



littlewonder -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/18/2012 5:33:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

My usual "extreme-but realistic" example is commanding her to shave her head.


See and something like that doesn't fall under "extreme" for me at all. I don't understand why it does seem to be extreme for so many people.
If you're going to be somebody's slave, it's self-evident to me that you'd obey a command like that, because there are no even semi-permanent implications to be had from it.
As far as "extremeness" goes, I'd put that one on par with an order to get artificial nails, start/stop wearing make up, change style of dress, or wear a visible collar.

It's merely a temporary change in appearance that has no lasting impact or consequences.



When Master mind fucked me into the whole head shaving thing, I never saw it as extreme, just something I really didn't want and I'm vain and well...shaving my head would have made me feel ugly. But I wanted to please him so in the end I knelt down to him and told him to just do it because I am his slave and if that's what he wanted I would do it despite my emotions about it.

But I never saw it as extreme, just emotional.



JanahX -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/18/2012 5:51:04 PM)

To those who have shaved their heads - what did your co-workers say? Friends and family? Did a lot of people ask you if you had cancer? What did you say back? Did you tell them your master commanded you to do it to please him?



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/18/2012 5:58:33 PM)

I would love to buzz off all my hair, but I suspect my clients and family wouldn't be up for it! And yeah, they'd presume that I was ill.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/18/2012 6:21:26 PM)

First of all, I want to make clear that I'm not trying to judge people who consider it extreme... it's just something I don't really understand.


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

To those who have shaved their heads - what did your co-workers say? Friends and family? Did a lot of people ask you if you had cancer? What did you say back? Did you tell them your master commanded you to do it to please him?



A lot of people shave their heads in support of a friend with cancer, so that would be an easy reason to give, if you don't mind a white lie.
If that doesn't work for you, you can always just say that you just wanted to try something radically new, while you look them defiantly in the eyes... people seldom take it beyond that.

I used to have my head shaven on my own accord. People asked questions less than you'd expect, especially strangers, but then again people where used to that sort of thing from me.

Hell, I used to have everything below the ears shaven and everything above it halfway down my neck; everything military short except for a short pony tail in the bottom of my neck, and half of my bangs still long; an mohawk; an inverted mohawk; dreads... and just about all the colors of the rainbow through the years. My hair is currently down to the small of my back, with just a little streak of red in it, and from the time I started to let it grow out till now is about the only time since I've been 10 years old that I've had my hair in a "normal" hairstyle. Once I reach my goal (down to my ass) I'll probably decide that I'm sick of this too, and do something crazy again.



JanahX -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/18/2012 6:25:22 PM)

I could care less what another person does with their own body - I was just throwing it out there - because there are things that are done like the head shaving thing that I would never do, but want to know what the aftermath is like -.



NuevaVida -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/18/2012 7:53:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder


When Master mind fucked me into the whole head shaving thing, I never saw it as extreme, just something I really didn't want and I'm vain and well...shaving my head would have made me feel ugly. But I wanted to please him so in the end I knelt down to him and told him to just do it because I am his slave and if that's what he wanted I would do it despite my emotions about it.

But I never saw it as extreme, just emotional.


Was your head actually shaved? It sounded from Kana's post like it was, and from your post that it was actually a mind fuck and not shaved. Just asking because if it was shaved, I'm interested in how you looked at yourself afterward. Did you feel ugly? Did people question it? Did you get used to it?

I think it would be very emotional for me, too, and I have no idea how I'd see myself in the mirror. He likes my hair though (won't let me cut it short) so I doubt he'd ever do that. But who knows, right?



littlewonder -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 12:41:15 AM)

No he never shaved my head but it was a mindfuck he kept up for about a month or so, buying an electric clipper, counting down the days, convincing me he was going to shave it and was just giving me time to adjust myself to what would happen and when. But when the day came, I was in tears and bawling like a baby as I kneeled in front of him and told him to just do it and get it over with.

Then he started laughing say he was never going to shave me. It ended up bringing us closer than we ever have been before because I learned just how strong his hold is on me, how much I love him and that I would do anything at all for him and he loved me for all of that. He loved seeing just how much I could surrender to him. Since then it's actually been kinda easier to surrender other tough things to him lol. I remind myself that if I could do that for him I can pretty much do anything else for him. [:)]



NuevaVida -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 10:12:15 AM)

Thanks for sharing that, LW! That would have had me an emotional mess, too. I'm glad it worked out so positively for you. I can see it risking working out negatively - I think while I may have experienced the same catharsis as you, I might also feel angry for being fooled for that long, and it could risk damaging my trust in him. But then having my mind fucked with causes very strong emotional reactions with me. I think it would end up something that would take us a long time to work through, due to my own wiring.

I do appreciate your sharing this.



littlewonder -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 10:29:32 AM)

Kana here
quote:

Was your head actually shaved? It sounded from Kana's post like it was

Nah-I said I commanded her. Sorry, didn't mean to give a false impression-we talked about this a lot online as it happened, thought most regulars here were familiar with the results
quote:

I might also feel angry for being fooled for that long

It probably wouldn't have helped that I couldn't stop giggling, except to cackle [8D]
quote:

it could risk damaging my trust in him

It had the opposite effect for us. She had depths of servitude that I saw, and had faith in, but she didn't know existed. This uncovered em, and broke new ground in our relationship



edited to add-why doesn't the red faced squinty angry icon (second row, third from the top) work? Hmmmmm, mod alert, mod alert



NuevaVida -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 10:49:19 AM)

Thanks, Kana - I honest to god have no idea how I would personally react to that. I think because of my own internal minefields, it could go either way. I think, for us, a experience like this would be way too risky right now. But who knows what the future would bring! So glad it worked out for you two.

I'm trying the red faced squinty icon: [:@]

Didn't work for me, either. Bastards! [8D]



JeffBC -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 11:07:29 AM)

I find it fascinating though, given LW's stance on utter and absolute honesty that she didn't kick you to the curb for that Kana. I mean it was a blatant and bald-faced lie with specific intent to deceive. Interesting how some things slip through the filters and others run smack up against them.



littlewonder -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 12:57:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I find it fascinating though, given LW's stance on utter and absolute honesty that she didn't kick you to the curb for that Kana. I mean it was a blatant and bald-faced lie with specific intent to deceive.



Kana sez, Yes it was!

Now for the lilones perspective: I'm rethinking my stance now! Ya know that didn't even dawn on me until now! hhhhmmmm. [8D]



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 1:09:54 PM)

Yeah, and that's the thing about a mind fuck. See, I can't stand them, others love them.

To me they are dishonest and cause me to lose trust very quickly. For reasons I will never understand, they bring others closer.

Anyone have another perspective on this?




kiwisub12 -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 1:11:04 PM)

Seems to me that would come under the heading of "play", not "lie". Sort of like when doms use ice and tell blindfolded subs that its a redhot knife.......

As for the OP , seems to me that the "average"dom would rather know what his sub is thinking, than have a white lie because the sub wanted to be pleasing. My late dom gave me a phrase to use when i wanted him to know that i wasn't thrilled about a projected activity. I didn't have to lie and he knew that i wasn't happy without me denying him, or being offensive(which sometimes i can be in my bluntness).

I would want long term honesty and realness in my relation than short term harmony.



JeffBC -> RE: Emotional Transparency vs. Being Pleasing. (8/19/2012 1:18:44 PM)

My guess is that I was on the right track with "filters". I suspect that's why Carol puts up with my lies. In the end, she's filtering a general attitude of "no lying" through some sort of "does this make sense?" filter and the rule is not getting applied because it shouldn't be applied. I'm going to guess that's what happened here. You KNOW Kana and you know that you are safe with him and you understand the why's of this particular lie, etc. etc. Applying the "no lies" rule in this case would be nonsensical -- at least insofar as I understand your relationship.



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