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RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/18/2012 6:54:54 PM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Since that violates their religion, and it can be done elsewhere whats the issue?

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ever been to a Catholic hospital?



Yes, I have been to Catholic Hospital. They refused to give my mother a hysterectomy when she had uterine cancer because they considered it birth control.

What a stellar example of kindness and charity.







Oside, did they actually SAY that a hysterectomy was birth control when treating cancer? As a Catholic who understands the doctrines and dogmas, that is absurd! The contraceptive aspects fall under double effect, making a hysterectomy licit for treating uterine cancer. I hope it was brought to that bishop's attention because that is complete BS.

I hope your mother was treated and is doing well.


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(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/18/2012 7:29:04 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Does it seem weird that him and his wealthy buddies are paying < 15% in taxes and yet still complain that taxes are too high and they need tax-cuts?

Fifteen Percent.

What rate are YOU paying?

( I still think the 'smoking gun' is the profits from Stericycle, which processes Planned Parenthoods "medical waste". )


57% of the population pays zero.

Z E R O.

Z
E
R
O

43% take food stamps.

The rest...pay every gawdamn bit of (ALL) the taxes that pave your roads.

If he pays 15% or 13% (as he stated)....that's more than almost everyone here pays.

Over the last 5 years I've paid around 18% taxes on my gross.

Do your own math.

You probably paid (against gross income) far less.

HIB???????


No one pays ZERO taxes. Maybe they don't pay INCOME taxes, but that's ignoring the other two tax types, EXCISE and PROPERTY.

EVERYONE pays excise tax. And the poor pay a disproportionate amount of their income in it.

The SOLUTION to this is to simply charge, at the state level, sales tax on stock and bond transactions, and at the local level, property taxes on stock and bond holdings.

Like any other property.

_____________________________

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(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/18/2012 9:35:07 PM   
Sanity


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Thanks for helping to clear that up because youre right, on further reflection it does strike me as completely absurd. I kind of thought so when I first read he post but decided to give OsideGirl the benefit of the doubt



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/18/2012 9:56:49 PM   
tj4444


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..

< Message edited by tj4444 -- 8/18/2012 10:02:59 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/18/2012 10:02:41 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Since that violates their religion, and it can be done elsewhere whats the issue?

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ever been to a Catholic hospital?



Yes, I have been to Catholic Hospital. They refused to give my mother a hysterectomy when she had uterine cancer because they considered it birth control.

What a stellar example of kindness and charity.







Oside, did they actually SAY that a hysterectomy was birth control when treating cancer? As a Catholic who understands the doctrines and dogmas, that is absurd! The contraceptive aspects fall under double effect, making a hysterectomy licit for treating uterine cancer. I hope it was brought to that bishop's attention because that is complete BS.

I hope your mother was treated and is doing well.



Specifically, at that time, the hospital refused because they did not do hysterectomies. Period. Regardless of the reason because it went against their views. Period. My mother ended up having a double mastectomy and a hysterectomy within a few months of each other, trust me when I say that her last concern was to contact in a Bishop, especially since we're not Catholic.

Her doctor referred her to another doctor at Mt Sinai Hospital. She had to be discharged from one hospital, transported to another and have surgery by a doctor she didn't know.

Sanity: It's nice to see that you think being diagnosed with a life threatening disease and having a hospital refuse to do treatment isn't an issue.

Since this was not the original intention of this thread to discuss Catholicism and is way off topic in the thread, that's the end of the discussion from my side.

Searching4mySir: If you have questions you're welcome to email me.


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(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/18/2012 10:08:19 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Even if some people consider them "cults" all religious organizations have to be treated equally, of course.. or all hell would break loose..


I've got to disagree with that:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology
In 1967, the IRS stripped all US-based Scientology entities of their tax exemption, declaring Scientology's activities were commercial and operated for the benefit of Hubbard. The church sued and lost repeatedly for 26 years trying to regain its tax-exempt status. The case was eventually settled in 1993, at which time the church paid $12.5 million to the IRS—greatly less than IRS had initially demanded—and the IRS recognized the church as a tax-exempt nonprofit organization.[41] In addition, Scientology also dropped more than fifty lawsuits against the IRS when this settlement was reached. Scientology cites its tax exemption as proof the United States government accepts it as a religion.


umm.. how does that prove that all religious organizations aren't treated equally?.. if the IRS found the Church of Scientology to be commerical operation and for the benefit of one person then its not a Church (despite what its called).. its another scam.. the IRS disallows a fair number of non-profits cuz they arent really non-profits or fail to follow the regs.. I have looked at the requirements and one is that the person/people that form the non-profit can not get any money from it..

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/18/2012 10:16:09 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Mother Theresa wouldn't have performed a hysterectomy on your mother either, still she and Catholic hospitals perform / performed a lot of very good work in the communities they serve(d)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Specifically, at that time, the hospital refused because they did not do hysterectomies. Period. Regardless of the reason because it went against their views. Period. My mother ended up having a double mastectomy and a hysterectomy within a few months of each other, trust me when I say that her last concern was to contact in a Bishop, especially since we're not Catholic.

Her doctor referred her to another doctor at Mt Sinai Hospital. She had to be discharged from one hospital, transported to another and have surgery by a doctor she didn't know.

Sanity: It's nice to see that you think being diagnosed with a life threatening disease and having a hospital refuse to do treatment isn't an issue.

Since this was not the original intention of this thread to discuss Catholicism and is way off topic in the thread, that's the end of the discussion from my side.

Searching4mySir: If you have questions you're welcome to email me.




< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/18/2012 10:17:19 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 5:44:35 AM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Does it seem weird that him and his wealthy buddies are paying < 15% in taxes and yet still complain that taxes are too high and they need tax-cuts?

Fifteen Percent.

What rate are YOU paying?

( I still think the 'smoking gun' is the profits from Stericycle, which processes Planned Parenthoods "medical waste". )


57% of the population pays zero.

Z E R O.

Z
E
R
O

43% take food stamps.

The rest...pay every gawdamn bit of (ALL) the taxes that pave your roads.

If he pays 15% or 13% (as he stated)....that's more than almost everyone here pays.

Over the last 5 years I've paid around 18% taxes on my gross.

Do your own math.

You probably paid (against gross income) far less.

HIB???????


No one pays ZERO taxes. Maybe they don't pay INCOME taxes, but that's ignoring the other two tax types, EXCISE and PROPERTY.

EVERYONE pays excise tax. And the poor pay a disproportionate amount of their income in it.

The SOLUTION to this is to simply charge, at the state level, sales tax on stock and bond transactions, and at the local level, property taxes on stock and bond holdings.

Like any other property.


I sit corrected. That is a fact.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 5:48:42 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ever been to a Catholic hospital?



Yes, I have been to Catholic Hospital. They refused to give my mother a hysterectomy when she had uterine cancer because they considered it birth control.

What a stellar example of kindness and charity.






I have a hard time with this since I know a few Catholic women who have had hysterectomies in CATHOLIC hospitals for various health issues. When it is a matter of life and death, the procedure is performed without question.

_____________________________

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(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 10:13:58 AM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

57% of the population pays zero.


When I first read this line, I assumed you meant federal income taxes.

I am one of those 57% and it is because I am poor that I have no federal tax liability.

I work full-time take a deduction only for my disabled son and still have no liability.

I have no mortgage interest deduction because I never had a mortgage on my home.

I have no extraordinary expenses of any kind that can be deducted (Like Romney's $7,000 deduction for his wife's hobby horse).

This year, I do expect a tax credit for the new car I bought and I may get back more than I paid into withholding. (I know some don't think that's right and I'm not sure it is fair either). And yes, I can afford the car only because I have no rent or mortgage to pay, thanks to my grandmother for leaving me her house.

Part of the social contract that has been for decades has been to protect the working poor from having to pay income taxes on their meager wages. But guess what, that same income level the poor pays no income on--the wealthy doesn't pay taxes on that portion of their income either. When there is talk of raising taxes on those making $250,000 or more, people forget that the tax rate on the first $250,000 will stay right where its it--its only on the income of $250,001+ that will be paid at the higher rate.

Then there is the inheritance tax which republicans would love to get rid of, because, well, income taxes were already paid on that money--by the person who earned it!! But when somebody inherits something, they haven't earned it; which is why it had me over $2,000 to settle the deed to my house when my grandmother died. Ironically, I had lived that house for 10 months before she died, if she had lived for just 2 more months I wouldn't have to pay a dime.





(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 11:44:02 AM   
nortons


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About Mitt Romney's Income tax. Two possibilities. 1. He makes a pot of money and hires lawyers to avoid paying income tax. Good. That means hes smart.

2.He makes a pot of money and pays a pot of income taxes. Good. He knows how to make money. If he's the head of a corporation it means he has experience leading.

His Tax Return? Yawn.

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 12:00:34 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ever been to a Catholic hospital?

Ever heard of Mother Theresa?

While short of perfect, the Catholic church has done immeasurable good



As well as immeasurable evil.

_____________________________

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 1:27:09 PM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

the requirement to be an "accredited investor" to be able to invest in the real, juicy, high-profit deals has been in place for decades, well before either Romney or Obama came along.. my comment wasnt about them at all, it was just about laws as they have existed for a long time, keeping options from people which as a result can help to keep them poor, yet in the name of saving them from themselves and their poor judgement..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Too bad Obama hasnt saved or created any jobs

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

imo its ironic that the govt keeps average people from investing in companies like Bain, since you would need to be an "accredited investor" to be able to profit as Romney and his investors did.. the laws put in place to "protect" ya'll are the ones that restricts your options so help keep you "poor" and not profit like the big boys..








In fact he knows that Obama has both saved and created millions of jobs...the numbers are in. The real fact is that repub intransigence prevented the creation of at least (independent studies) another million and by design as it was their 'first priority' to get Obama out...not to create jobs.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 1:38:05 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The best part is that, with charitable causes you dont have IRS goons kicking in your door to take whatever the politicians decide is theirs to spend on six hundred dollar toilet seats or bridges to nowhere, or to use to buy votes

You give what you want, to who you want, when you want

And, in so giving, you also have the added benefit of helping to keep the government IRS goons at bay

Win win win

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
I would much rather charitable causes receive citizens' money than bureaucrats


I dont want the govt/bureaucrats to get my money & I dont want Churches to get my money,.. for me, charitable causes depends on the charity, who runs it and where the money it gets as donations is spent.. I think i will set my own non-profit up instead tho..



Except that it is the repubs that created the bridges-to-nowhere that crrupt and immoral 'fiscally conservative' pork barrel enrichment and also the so-called $600 toilet seat for their favorite tax-payer money hole...the Pentagon.

Charitable organizations are almost all bureaucrats. most of whom are paid more than for-profit bureaucrats.

Charity has otherwise little to do with the IRS and the tax-exempt whoever they are. often have the IRS 'kicking in their door' if they are in fact in anyway acting as a for-profit entity and you know it.




(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 1:47:31 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

57% of the population pays zero.


When I first read this line, I assumed you meant federal income taxes.

I am one of those 57% and it is because I am poor that I have no federal tax liability.

I work full-time take a deduction only for my disabled son and still have no liability.

I have no mortgage interest deduction because I never had a mortgage on my home.

I have no extraordinary expenses of any kind that can be deducted (Like Romney's $7,000 deduction for his wife's hobby horse).

This year, I do expect a tax credit for the new car I bought and I may get back more than I paid into withholding. (I know some don't think that's right and I'm not sure it is fair either). And yes, I can afford the car only because I have no rent or mortgage to pay, thanks to my grandmother for leaving me her house.

Part of the social contract that has been for decades has been to protect the working poor from having to pay income taxes on their meager wages. But guess what, that same income level the poor pays no income on--the wealthy doesn't pay taxes on that portion of their income either. When there is talk of raising taxes on those making $250,000 or more, people forget that the tax rate on the first $250,000 will stay right where its it--its only on the income of $250,001+ that will be paid at the higher rate.

Then there is the inheritance tax which republicans would love to get rid of, because, well, income taxes were already paid on that money--by the person who earned it!! But when somebody inherits something, they haven't earned it; which is why it had me over $2,000 to settle the deed to my house when my grandmother died. Ironically, I had lived that house for 10 months before she died, if she had lived for just 2 more months I wouldn't have to pay a dime.



My dear, I wholeheartedly agree with you on those exceptionally valid points.

My argument regards this topic isn't that everyone should pay federal taxes...some simply can't.

And I totally agree with you on the inheritance tax. All taxes were already paid on those funds....it's ridiculous for someone to have worked their tails off for however long they worked for it, hand it off to their kids in hopes for a better life for their children, only to see the state and feds cut a wide swath of it out for themselves.

My Dad did exceptionally well, died 2 years ago or so, and even after paying the taxes to those bloodsuckers, he provided for his family beyond any measure I could have ever dreamed of, but the checks I wrote out to both the state and the feds just pissed me off, and they were not small checks. Not because I felt that money should be "ours" (his family), but that it sure as shit didn't belong to the feds or the state.

As to Romney's plan to lower taxes on the wealthy...the premise is a good one (wealthy people spend more....start more businesses), but it entirely avoids the obvious: When Bush Jr. cut taxes for the wealthy, every newspaper in the country had daily articles from some of the wealthiest folks in America stating clearly...."We don't want it and we don't need it....pay off the damn debt please".

Romney's plan not only cuts taxes for the wealthiest, when they don't want or need it, it also includes making the Bush tax cuts permanent.

That's just foolishness.

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 2:00:53 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I am still waiting for many of the anti Bush voters to keep THEIR promises to move to Cuba or North Korea, or wherever... Where they would feel more at home

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
just outta curiousity.. if you believe Americans are losing their liberties, why just bitch about it? why do you still live here and why are you still an American? why dont you join the 1,800 or so Americans that gave up their citizenship in the last year?



I am a BUSH hater if one could call it hate but this is my country and I want the greedy, scheming, immoral scum out of my country.

It is my considered opinion that W was far and away...the worst president in the history of this country.

I blame him and his repub co-conspirators for their outlandish incompetence, (allowing the pentagon to be attacked...by anybody), their criminality, (outing an acting CIA field agent) lying about WMD in Iraq, the fascist Patriot act., unconstitutional GITMO and torture.

The fiscal greed going straight through over $12 trillion the beneficiaries of which were the top 5% richest people in the US, turning the US into the world's greatest borrower and also creating the biggest trade deficits and having the worst 2-term job creation in history, resulting in fewer people working then when he assumed office.

Bush pulled the federal strings of power so he and his band of thieves on wall street could be ensured that their mortgaged backed security charade had plenty of bogus mortgages to rain $billion in scam profits.

Shall I go on ?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 2:08:51 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

57% of the population pays zero.


Imagine that would you ? In the so-called 'richest' country in the history of the world...almost 3 of every 5 didn't make enough money to actually owe any federal income tax.

Just how do these American fools go on with this shit ? Get paid nothing and feel like they are so fucking good and at just about everything?

Then they get bitched at for being so poor...they don't owe any taxes. Bitched at for making millions and paying 13%, bitched at for being poor and paying nothing...ya just can't win.

BTW the so-called inheritance tax is an income tax on the heirs. You have no choices here. Your plutocratic inspired and often Orwellian tax code...notwithstanding.






< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 8/19/2012 2:36:33 PM >

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 3:13:35 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ever been to a Catholic hospital?

Ever heard of Mother Theresa?

While short of perfect, the Catholic church has done immeasurable good



As well as immeasurable evil.


So has every other christian denomination on the planet

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 4:03:37 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
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I happen to be in favor of the inheritance tax. I didn't earn what my house is worth, my grandmother gave it to me. I had no problem with paying the taxes. It's just that it was a lot of money for me at a time when I was still disabled, not working and it seemed odd that if only she'd lived 2 more months, I'd have not had to pay the inheritance. That's why I tell people that I bought and paid for my home. Some might view that statement as factitious, but it was lot a money, relatively speaking, for me at the time.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: So, Mitt is paying 13% in taxes every year... - 8/19/2012 5:19:51 PM   
suds00


Posts: 4
Joined: 8/6/2012
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i would be very surprised if he won.of course i always pick the loser.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 60
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