RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . .

RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 12:57:29 PM)
nm

Sanity -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 1:17:24 PM)
Leftists can slander and slime but (as a general rule) they can't legitimately debate a topic What is the Dem plan to save SS Because without a plan to save it, it will end. Social Security "as we know it" is not sustainable because the boomers are overwhelming it The Dems' only plan is to demonize anyone who proposes real workable solutions, and to lie about those proposals Straight up lie No one is proposing an end to Social Security Except possibly those whose only plan is to ignore the issue, and straw man those who have ideas that could save ut quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail nm

mnottertail -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 1:22:26 PM)
http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/trustees98_press.htm Now, will the teabaggers totally bankrupt america before then? Quite possibly. It is low on the list of deadly needed fixes. So the rightists slander and slime, but are absent facts, and never can legitimately debate topics, because they lie and ignore real facts, in favor of their extremist ideology.

mnottertail -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 1:39:40 PM)
And I should point out that Al Gore would have made it a priority to put the social security system on some real foundations when the economy was good back in 2000. The hogs went for the tax cuts, to devastate the economy, saying oh, its fine, and the infrastructure is fine, and debts is fine, and we have to go fix Iraq, and we are fine....... The time to repair the roof is while the sun is shining, all these America destroying programs coming out of teabaggers, who are now going to 'fix' it again. A problem 20 years hence is of less priority than the problem that is threatening our immediate demise, all designed and faithfully executed by teabaggers and neo-cons. Perhaps the hogs will be slaughtered. They are sheep who will be slaughtered if they think the abysmal approval rating just shows that St. Wrinklemeat proves that deficits don't matter. November, be there or be square.

Owner59 -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 6:18:49 PM)
Privatization IS ending SS......and most Americans agree. No one believes liz`s bushshit. Again,Ryan tried to sell this garbage in '04' and they lost an election over it. How is it that Mittens or his dupes think that folk`ll feel differently today? Next!

dcnovice -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 7:56:26 PM)
FR Would Ike even count as a Republican today?

dcnovice -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 8:04:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity And I doubt Ike foresaw healthy people packing the Social Security roles. quote: 8,753,935: Workers on Disability Set Another Record in July; Exceed Population of 39 States Do we know for sure that the increase is due to healthy people getting disability? That wasn't mentioned in your article (unless you're talking about spouses and children). A friend of mine worked for the Social Security Administration for quite a few years, helping administrative law judges determine whether applicants qualified for disability. Her firsthand report was that getting it was quite difficult.

erieangel -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 8:25:30 PM)
quote: There are hundreds of things, literally. Its laughable btw how so many leftists believe that punishing taxes would be an INCENTIVE to bring industry back How about this--start by raising taxes and then offer tax breaks for every job created in the US? Allow businesses to reduce their total tax liability by expanding in the US and creating jobs. Of course, the biggest corporations wouldn't go for a plan like that, they just want the lower tax liability.

Hillwilliam -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 8:34:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR Would Ike even count as a Republican today? No, nor would Reagan.

slvemike4u -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 8:38:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity And I doubt Ike foresaw healthy people packing the Social Security roles. quote: 8,753,935: Workers on Disability Set Another Record in July; Exceed Population of 39 States Do we know for sure that the increase is due to healthy people getting disability? That wasn't mentioned in your article (unless you're talking about spouses and children). A friend of mine worked for the Social Security Administration for quite a few years, helping administrative law judges determine whether applicants qualified for disability. Her firsthand report was that getting it was quite difficult. "quite difficult" s an understatement,it is also quite a lengthy process that includes a standard initial rejection of the claim,no matter the severity of the disability,which than is of course appealed.The thinking there is that a good number of fraudulent claims will be abandoned. Only than does one wind up in front of that Administrative Law Judge to have his/her case considered.There medical evidence of any disability claim is evaluated....at which point those that qualify receive their back SSI judgement ,minus the legal cost that you have incurred navigating the process. Is this a necessary evil designed to insure that only the truly disabled receive such a judgement.....yeah I guess it is. No gripes from me about this..in the end they got it right.

Musicmystery -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/20/2012 8:41:04 PM)
Plus that's not even 3% of the population.

slvemike4u -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/21/2012 8:51:28 AM)
It is a tried and true practice from the right.Demonize some portion of the population in order to excite and incense the base.Yesterday it was the "welfare queen" ,today it is malingerers and slackers siphoning off resources from the public teat fraudulently. Of course the tactic works best if you can present such cases way out of proportion to their actuality....which is what sanity tried to do here. Would I rather be gainfully employed,of course I would,but not only could I not uphold the rigors of a work schedule.who would hire me....I have a degenerative spinal condition,a back that can and will lock up at a moments notice rendering me immobile,I am on narcotic pain medications full time....in other words I am unemployable. Many on SSI would love to rejoin the work force but find themselves in the same situation,add to that a disastrous job market for the healthy...where would the disabled find gainful employment? Of course there are classes available for re-training,but when you look into it you find that it will cost you an arm and a leg(being facetious) loans are available though....but many ,like me,are of an advanced age(I'm 53) how many employers are hiring the disabled soon to be senior citizens today ? So the path out of SSI isn't all that clear either....for myself the thought of taking on new debt,while living on a fixed income,for the dubious chance to rejoin a depressed job market(with two or three strikes against me already)is more than dicey,it is dubious indeed.

Sanity -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/21/2012 9:28:04 AM)
Don't know the particulars of your case, wasn't referring to you, can't say I care one way or another. I am not trying to "demonize" anyone either, that's the lefts game, I am just parsing facts Who doesn't know a welfare cheat though? And that's the lefts problem. You can deny that there are significant abuses but most reasonable, rational people know bettee quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u It is a tried and true practice from the right.Demonize some portion of the population in order to excite and incense the base.Yesterday it was the "welfare queen" ,today it is malingerers and slackers siphoning off resources from the public teat fraudulently. Of course the tactic works best if you can present such cases way out of proportion to their actuality....which is what sanity tried to do here. Would I rather be gainfully employed,of course I would,but not only could I not uphold the rigors of a work schedule.who would hire me....I have a degenerative spinal condition,a back that can and will lock up at a moments notice rendering me immobile,I am on narcotic pain medications full time....in other words I am unemployable. Many on SSI would love to rejoin the work force but find themselves in the same situation,add to that a disastrous job market for the healthy...where would the disabled find gainful employment? Of course there are classes available for re-training,but when you look into it you find that it will cost you an arm and a leg(being facetious) loans are available though....but many ,like me,are of an advanced age(I'm 53) how many employers are hiring the disabled soon to be senior citizens today ? So the path out of SSI isn't all that clear either....for myself the thought of taking on new debt,while living on a fixed income,for the dubious chance to rejoin a depressed job market(with two or three strikes against me already)is more than dicey,it is dubious indeed.

mnottertail -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/21/2012 9:33:57 AM)
Don't know the particulars of your case, wasn't referring to you, can't say I care one way or another. I am not trying to "demonize" anyone either, that's the lefts game, I am just parsing facts What facts have you parsed?

JeffBC -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/21/2012 10:08:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Who doesn't know a welfare cheat though? And that's the lefts problem. You can deny that there are significant abuses but most reasonable, rational people know bettee Uh... I don't know a welfare cheat. In addition, I recognize that there will be SOME level of cheaters in any given population and that doesn't make the idea unsound as a whole. So let's go with your number... 8,753,935 people are on disability in the United States. Doing a quick google and some math I calculate that at 2.8% of the total population. That figure is misleading though. The question I came to was how many potential workers are there? I didn't get a good number but a quick bit of wikipedia tells me something like 170 million isn't too far off (I'm way open to corrections on that one). So now we are at 8.7/170 or 5.1% of workers are on disability. Now, I just have to believe that at least some of those people genuinely have some sort of serious reason to not be working. So the utter maximum extent of my problem here is 5% but in truth it's probably below 1%. Honestly, I've got better things to worry about. So yeah... a reasonable, rational guy just doing the math can deny that there are significant abuses. Oh, I get that there ARE abuses and we read about them in the papers periodically. I just don't believe they are all that significant.

Winterapple -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/21/2012 11:34:24 AM)
quote: No, and Gerald Ford probably wouldn't be either. I don't personally know any welfare cheats. I accept that there are cheaters to various degrees in all populations. But you don't destroy the safety net because there will be people who exploit it. I will say that I don't anyone on public assistance who I would say living high on the hog. Getting by and existing in the relative comfort of having basic needs met but nobody that I've known is living on easy street in the way some say they are.

dcnovice -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/21/2012 6:26:48 PM)
quote: Who doesn't know a welfare cheat though? The closest I've come, at least knowingly, was a conversation with my mother. We were discussing the nontrivial challenge of financing one's old age, and she explained what I gather is a common strategy. An aging person transfers assets to his or her children, with the result that the oldster looks much poorer on paper and can, if necessary, more easily qualify for Medicaid to help with nursing home care. In the gentlest voice I could muster, I noted that lower-class folks who use similar stratagems are called "welfare cheats." Long pause. "Oh," said Mom, "I never thought of it that way." quote: You can deny that there are significant abuses but most reasonable, rational people know bettee I don't doubt there's abuse. But it's hard to comment meaningfully without some sense of what we mean by "significant" and how we can reliably gauge the extent of the problem.

slvemike4u -> RE: If Eisenhower could only repeat this now . . . (8/21/2012 7:10:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Don't know the particulars of your case, wasn't referring to you, can't say I care one way or another. I am not trying to "demonize" anyone either, that's the lefts game, I am just parsing facts Who doesn't know a welfare cheat though? And that's the lefts problem. You can deny that there are significant abuses but most reasonable, rational people know bettee quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u It is a tried and true practice from the right.Demonize some portion of the population in order to excite and incense the base.Yesterday it was the "welfare queen" ,today it is malingerers and slackers siphoning off resources from the public teat fraudulently. Of course the tactic works best if you can present such cases way out of proportion to their actuality....which is what sanity tried to do here. Would I rather be gainfully employed,of course I would,but not only could I not uphold the rigors of a work schedule.who would hire me....I have a degenerative spinal condition,a back that can and will lock up at a moments notice rendering me immobile,I am on narcotic pain medications full time....in other words I am unemployable. Many on SSI would love to rejoin the work force but find themselves in the same situation,add to that a disastrous job market for the healthy...where would the disabled find gainful employment? Of course there are classes available for re-training,but when you look into it you find that it will cost you an arm and a leg(being facetious) loans are available though....but many ,like me,are of an advanced age(I'm 53) how many employers are hiring the disabled soon to be senior citizens today ? So the path out of SSI isn't all that clear either....for myself the thought of taking on new debt,while living on a fixed income,for the dubious chance to rejoin a depressed job market(with two or three strikes against me already)is more than dicey,it is dubious indeed. I was not under the impression that you did know the particulars of my case,nor did I think the thread was directed at me,I do not operate under such grandiose views of myself( unlike others ?) And no,I have no personal information about any "welfare cheat" ....and yes,you were most certainly trying to "demonize others" as a matter of fact it is not only the right's stock in trade ,it is yours....you just repeated the attempt with your "welfare cheat" crack. I bet you don't even know a "welfare cheat" and that if "think"(word used loosely)you do it's just because.like every post here,you have your facts wrong and you are basically full of s**t.

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