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Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/20/2012 10:07:50 PM

atursvcMaam

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With Iraq winding down, and plans announced for Afghanistan, it is time to take the show on the road. The cast will change a bit, as will the backgrounds. New towns to pronounce. 4 more years of this?
http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-syria-weapons-president-153/
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/03/20/would-a-draft-reduce-the-number-of-post-traumatic-stress-cases/a-military-draft-would-share-the-burden-ease-the-pain
Charlie Rangel has brougt up reinstating the draft for years. If we end up with a new front you can never tell whether it mgiht go through. FORWARD???or Forward March!!!!

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RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/20/2012 10:14:06 PM

DaNewAgeViking

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Please keep in mind that it is the REPUBLICANS who have always been the raving militarists. By all accounts, Obama has been trying to withdraw from Bush's wars and scale down the military because he knows we CAN'T AFFORD IT, and because 'smart combat' with intel, drones, and lightning raids produce better results cheaper. Remember Bin Laden? Hmmm?

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 2

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/20/2012 10:30:01 PM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Please keep in mind that it is the REPUBLICANS who have always been the raving militarists. By all accounts, Obama has been trying to withdraw from Bush's wars and scale down the military because he knows we CAN'T AFFORD IT, and because 'smart combat' with intel, drones, and lightning raids produce better results cheaper. Remember Bin Laden? Hmmm?

HMMMMM,
Rangel is a NY democrat, and has been proposing reinstating the draft for years.
It is Mr. Obama currently drawing a red line in the sand for Syria. If I have read the stories correctly, he too is a democrat.
The threatened BioChem weaponry tend to interfere with "Lightning" raids, and the drones will be less than effective here unless someone has developed the flying electrolux to neutralize the threat. Ooops sorry was not supposed to mention that one. That was Mr. Obama's idea, wasn't it. Intel is always a crap shoot, as they say, Intel has to be on target every time, and the attack only has to be on target once.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to DaNewAgeViking)

Post #: 3

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/20/2012 11:17:07 PM

Real0ne

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thats such bullshit

everyone in the ME knew where bins is (was) every second of his life. he was a celebrity over there and watched like the queen is in mangleland

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RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 12:41:08 AM

Tumblweed

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Isn't that Mangeland ?

Weed

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Post #: 5

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 3:04:03 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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WWI - Wilson (D) Presiding

WWII - Roosevelt (D) Presiding

Korea - Truman (D) Presiding

Vietnam - Kennedy (D) or Johnson (D) (Depending upon who you want to blame) Presiding

Gulf War I - Bush (R) Presiding

Gulf War II - Bush II (R) Presiding

That's the biggies for the last 100 or so years. I'm not about to count little "dust ups" and I won't count the war that never happened (because the Iranians won it, without us firing a shot) under Carter or the Bay Of Pigs, under Kennedy (D) which could have become a very interesting situation had it not been botched from the planning stages.

There's a long-standing truth in military politics: The Dems want a small military and want to send it everywhere and the Reps want a large military and want to send it nowhere.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 3:16:37 AM

SilverMark

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

WWI - Wilson (D) Presiding

WWII - Roosevelt (D) Presiding

Korea - Truman (D) Presiding

Vietnam - Kennedy (D) or Johnson (D) (Depending upon who you want to blame) Presiding....

Gulf War I - Bush (R) Presiding

Gulf War II - Bush II (R) Presiding

That's the biggies for the last 100 or so years. I'm not about to count little "dust ups" and I won't count the war that never happened (because the Iranians won it, without us firing a shot) under Carter or the Bay Of Pigs, under Kennedy (D) which could have become a very interesting situation had it not been botched from the planning stages.

There's a long-standing truth in military politics: The Dems want a small military and want to send it everywhere and the Reps want a large military and want to send it nowhere.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Vietnam - Kennedy (D) or Johnson (D) (Depending upon who you want to blame) Presiding....About this...Or we could start with who pledged our assistance, and sent the first advisors

In September 1954, right after the Geneva Accords were signed on 20 July 1954, dividing Vietnam into north and south at the 17th parallel, President Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote to the new Prime Minister of the Bao Dai government, Ngo Dinh Diem, promising United States support to ensure a noncommunist Vietnam. Following through on that commitment, direct United States aid to South Vietnam began in January 1955, and American advisors began arriving in February to train the South Vietnamese army.

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It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 7

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 3:25:22 AM

DaddySatyr

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and the fighhting troops were sent by whom?

I don't count money and drill sergeants as a war. If I did that, we'd have a whole slew more (most under guys with "D"s after their name).

I know you like to nit-pick but this is a scab best left alone. Kennedy sent the first (not nearly enough) fighting troops and Johnson ("I will not send American boys half-way around the world to do a job that Vietnamese boys aught to be doing themselves") really threw our lot in with a despot who just happened to not be a commie so he was our kind of despot.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SilverMark)

Post #: 8

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 4:44:58 AM

SilverMark

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You must have a lack of historical perspective on the issue, it was an undeclared war, combatants were considered "Advisor's" for a very long time. Edward Lansdale and the CIA must not count in your view? Lansdale wasn't exactly some run of the mill Sargent, perhaps you should look him up? We wouldn't want to count the advisor's in the mid 50's as part of an act of war, now would we? We're Americans we couldn't have possibly done something for Ike, like shoot a Viet Cong insurgent?...Surely would hate to disrupt your highly opinionated argument with history, now wouldn't we?....

In actuality if you count our assistance to the French we started our involvement in 1950....In '55 we actually had a Saigon Military Mission, but that must not count?...Those "Undeclared" wars leave a lot to definition....REALLY?

The Viet Nam war was unlike WWII or WWI....the path we were lead down started under Ike...sorry, that those policies were followed there after, but history is what it is....

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 9

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 4:54:41 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking
Please keep in mind that it is the REPUBLICANS who have always been the raving militarists. By all accounts, Obama has been trying to withdraw from Bush's wars and scale down the military because he knows we CAN'T AFFORD IT, and because 'smart combat' with intel, drones, and lightning raids produce better results cheaper. Remember Bin Laden? Hmmm?

HMMMMM,
Rangel is a NY democrat, and has been proposing reinstating the draft for years.
It is Mr. Obama currently drawing a red line in the sand for Syria. If I have read the stories correctly, he too is a democrat.
The threatened BioChem weaponry tend to interfere with "Lightning" raids, and the drones will be less than effective here unless someone has developed the flying electrolux to neutralize the threat. Ooops sorry was not supposed to mention that one. That was Mr. Obama's idea, wasn't it. Intel is always a crap shoot, as they say, Intel has to be on target every time, and the attack only has to be on target once.

Generally, the idea of reinstating the draft would be to make warmongers step back and think harder before going into war. When you have no skin (literally in some cases) in the game, you don't always make the safest decisions. The draft idea isn't to support more and more war, it's to reduce the chances of fighting.

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RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 5:06:51 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
Vietnam - Kennedy (D) or Johnson (D) (Depending upon who you want to blame) Presiding....About this...Or we could start with who pledged our assistance, and sent the first advisors

In September 1954, right after the Geneva Accords were signed on 20 July 1954, dividing Vietnam into north and south at the 17th parallel, President Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote to the new Prime Minister of the Bao Dai government, Ngo Dinh Diem, promising United States support to ensure a noncommunist Vietnam. Following through on that commitment, direct United States aid to South Vietnam began in January 1955, and American advisors began arriving in February to train the South Vietnamese army.

The only thing I'm going to say here, is that Kennedy didn't have to send in troops and Johnson didn't have to send in more. Just because one President pledges something doesn't mean the next President is duty-bound, if it's the wrong decision. I know rhetoric like almost nothing we could imagine would be slung, but right is right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
There's a long-standing truth in military politics: The Dems want a small military and want to send it everywhere and the Reps want a large military and want to send it nowhere.

I don't know that that is a truth. It sure seems the R's want to send it everywhere, too. We've had a pretty imperialistic approach to foreign policy.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to SilverMark)

Post #: 11

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 5:16:24 AM

SilverMark

Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
Vietnam - Kennedy (D) or Johnson (D) (Depending upon who you want to blame) Presiding....About this...Or we could start with who pledged our assistance, and sent the first advisors

In September 1954, right after the Geneva Accords were signed on 20 July 1954, dividing Vietnam into north and south at the 17th parallel, President Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote to the new Prime Minister of the Bao Dai government, Ngo Dinh Diem, promising United States support to ensure a noncommunist Vietnam. Following through on that commitment, direct United States aid to South Vietnam began in January 1955, and American advisors began arriving in February to train the South Vietnamese army.

The only thing I'm going to say here, is that Kennedy didn't have to send in troops and Johnson didn't have to send in more. Just because one President pledges something doesn't mean the next President is duty-bound, if it's the wrong decision. I know rhetoric like almost nothing we could imagine would be slung, but right is right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
There's a long-standing truth in military politics: The Dems want a small military and want to send it everywhere and the Reps want a large military and want to send it nowhere.

I don't know that that is a truth. It sure seems the R's want to send it everywhere, too. We've had a pretty imperialistic approach to foreign policy.

I agree totally, the fear of Communism at that time led us to do many stupid things. Politically, to be thought of as "weak on Communism" was death to a politician. As much as I admired a lot of Keenan's writing, I always felt the Domino theory created many instances of action based on fear.

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 12

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 5:42:25 AM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

WWI - Wilson (D) Presiding

Fwiw, Wilson took a lot of heat from Republicans, particularly Theodore Roosevelt and Henry Cabot Lodge, for exploring every peaceful option he could before finally, reluctantly asking Congress for a declaration of war. (ETA: Wilson was stunned and appalled by the cheering that greeted America's entry into the war. "Do they not realize," he asked, "that this is a sentence of death for our young men?")

And if we venture a bit beyond your convenient time frame, we come to the bloodiest conflict in American history, costing more lives than all the others combined:

Civil War - Lincoln (R) Presiding

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 8/21/2012 5:52:07 AM >

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RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 5:52:31 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Would you like South Korea to look like the North, for the North to have the Souths resources

Dont forget, at one time the Chinese leaders were as North Koreas leaders are

Were you happy with how the North Vietnamese treated the people in the South after the Left gave them the people of the South

Is it also stupid to pull your hand out of a fire once you sense that it is being burned

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I agree totally, the fear of Communism at that time led us to do many stupid things. Politically, to be thought of as "weak on Communism" was death to a politician. As much as I admired a lot of Keenan's writing, I always felt the Domino theory created many instances of action based on fear.

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(in reply to SilverMark)

Post #: 14

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 5:56:46 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking
Please keep in mind that it is the REPUBLICANS who have always been the raving militarists. By all accounts, Obama has been trying to withdraw from Bush's wars and scale down the military because he knows we CAN'T AFFORD IT, and because 'smart combat' with intel, drones, and lightning raids produce better results cheaper. Remember Bin Laden? Hmmm?

HMMMMM,
Rangel is a NY democrat, and has been proposing reinstating the draft for years.
It is Mr. Obama currently drawing a red line in the sand for Syria. If I have read the stories correctly, he too is a democrat.
The threatened BioChem weaponry tend to interfere with "Lightning" raids, and the drones will be less than effective here unless someone has developed the flying electrolux to neutralize the threat. Ooops sorry was not supposed to mention that one. That was Mr. Obama's idea, wasn't it. Intel is always a crap shoot, as they say, Intel has to be on target every time, and the attack only has to be on target once.

Generally, the idea of reinstating the draft would be to make warmongers step back and think harder before going into war. When you have no skin (literally in some cases) in the game, you don't always make the safest decisions. The draft idea isn't to support more and more war, it's to reduce the chances of fighting.

And as such has some merit,and I say this as the father of a draft eligible young man(though I am guessing he is rapidly approaching the age where that is not so,but I have nephews)
Add to that the fact that you would always have a voracious ant-war contingent to contend with....war becomes something you just might have to actually justify to the American people before committing their sons and daughters to such a path.
The current state of affairs has America sending off a disproportionate amount of poor and minority children off to bleed and die for her...a state of affairs that should be distasteful to all.

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 15

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 5:59:46 AM

SilverMark

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Joined: 5/9/2007
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Sanity, homestly, do you think that the VietNam war was worth the cost? Somewhere over 50,000 Americans died for what? Now we import over 50 BILLION dollars worth of goods from Viet Nam, I guess had we not fought, had we allowed them self-determination, this would not have happened? Just how many Communist countries are left? How does it effect our live's? Do you live in fear of North Korea attacking the US? Cuba?....Really Tom?

Sorry, your argument holds no water!

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 16

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 6:06:58 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Too bad the far left hippy freaks and their traitor cohorts gave the North and the Soviets and the Chinese the courage and the will to fight on and suppress their citizens despite the brave sacrifice and hard work of our soldiers, think of the lives and mass misery they cost us and the South as well as in places like the killing fields of Cambodia

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Sanity, homestly, do you think that the VietNam war was worth the cost? Somewhere over 50,000 Americans died for what? Now we import over 50 BILLION dollars worth of goods from Viet Nam, I guess had we not fought, had we allowed them self-determination, this would not have happened? Just how many Communist countries are left? How does it effect our live's? Do you live in fear of North Korea attacking the US? Cuba?....Really Tom?

Sorry, your argument holds no water!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 17

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 6:11:00 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Too bad the far left hippy freaks and their traitor cohorts gave the North and the Soviets and the Chinese the courage and the will to fight on and suppress their citizens despite the brave sacrifice and hard work of our soldiers, think of the lives and mass misery they cost us and the South as well as in places like the killing fields of Cambodia

I think that you would be hard pressed to call Nixon a hippy.

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Post #: 18

RE: Uncle Sam's Travelling Circus on the road agaiin? - 8/21/2012 6:19:20 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Too bad the far left hippy freaks and their traitor cohorts gave the North and the Soviets and the Chinese the courage and the will to fight on and suppress their citizens despite the brave sacrifice and hard work of our soldiers, think of the lives and mass misery they cost us and the South as well as in places like the killing fields of Cambodia

It was our presence propping up a corrupt and incompetent regime that pushed the NV into the Soviet sphere, the Vietnamese people were sick of outsiders occupying the nation period.

As to Cambodia, the Vietnamese communists are the ones who forced the Khmer Rouge out. The Khmer Rouge were Maoists while the Vietnamese communists were Leninists.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 19

RE: Uncle Sam's Traveling Circus on the road again? - 8/21/2012 6:20:57 AM

SilverMark

Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

Yep...50,000 American lives....over an overgrown rice paddy....all in the name of defeating Communisim....Better look into the government of South Viet Nam and how they operated Tom.

It was tough to decide the good and the bad, so they would execute many on the word of others who were truly the enemy.

It was NEVER worth the cost and I am a bit surprised you would try to defend a war based on a misguided notion.

Please tell me about what a great human rights fighter Diem was...Minh? Kahn? Thieu?....Really Tom?....

< Message edited by SilverMark -- 8/21/2012 6:21:46 AM >

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 20

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