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Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/21/2012 3:44:58 PM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		The theory behind Rep. Todd Akin’s (R-MO) assertion earlier this week that women who are victims of “legitimate” rape would not get pregnant appears to be based on 1972 research that cites experiments done in Nazi concentration camps, a Missouri newspaper reported on Monday.

During an interview with KTVI over the weekend, Akin had claimed that women were not likely to get pregnant because “if it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”

This reasoning, based on 1972 article by a University of Minnesota Medical School assistant professor, has been used for decades by anti-abortion activists to argue that no exceptions to abortion bans are necessary, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

In the article titled “The Indications for Induced Abortion: A Physician’s Perspective,” Dr. Fred Mecklenburg concluded that it “is extremely rare” for a rape to result in pregnancy.

Mecklenburg cited a number of factors for his theory, including that not all rapes resulted in “completed act of intercourse” and that it was “improbable” that a rape would occur within “the 1-2 days of the month in which the woman would be fertile.”

But it was Mecklenburg’s presumption that a traumatized rape victim “will not ovulate even if she is ‘scheduled’ to” that appeared to be the basis of Akin’s recent remarks.

To support his conclusion, Mecklenburg cited studies that were allegedly done at extermination camps in Nazi Germany.

Nazis reportedly tested the theory “by selecting women who were about to ovulate and sending them to the gas chambers, only to bring them back after their realistic mock-killing, to see what the effect this had on their ovulatory patterns. An extremely high percentage of these women did not ovulate,” the article said.

Mecklenburg also speculated that “frequent masturbation” was likely to make rapists infertile.

More recent research, however, has debunked the ideas Mecklenburg’s article.

“From a scientific standpoint, what’s legitimate and fair to say is that a woman who is raped has the same chances of getting pregnant as a woman who engaged in consensual intercourse during the same time in her menstrual cycle,” American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists’ Dr. Barbara Levy told the Post-Dispatch.

A 1992 study by the Medical University of South Carolina determined that the “national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year.” Many experts believe that number could be significantly higher because an estimated 54 percent of rapes are not reported.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/21/akin-rape-theory-rooted-in-nazi-death-camp-experiments/

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/21/2012 6:07:44 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		Not to defend this Akin douchebag, but the same nonsense he spouted about rape victims not getting pregnant was right there in the curriculum (and on the test) at the Baptist school I was incarcerated in for a couple years.  Nazi research never came up.  I just assumed they made the shit up.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/21/2012 6:13:05 PM   
erieangel


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Status: offline 		Actually, the entire theory is based on medieval believes. The Nazis were testing a theory from the Dark Ages and the right wingers keep going back to that era for their inspiration.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/21/2012 6:20:36 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Other things he believes . . .

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4215317

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/21/2012 7:11:08 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Actually, the entire theory is based on medieval beliefs. The Nazis were testing a theory from the Dark Ages and the right wingers keep going back to that era for their inspiration.


Right you are:

'Legitimate rape' - a medieval medical concept

The idea that rape victims cannot get pregnant has long roots. The legal position that pregnancy disproved a claim of rape appears to have been instituted in the UK sometime in the 13th century. One of the earliest British legal texts, Fleta, has a clause in the first book of the second volume stating that:

"If, however, the woman should have conceived at the time alleged in the appeal, it abates, for without a woman's consent she could not conceive."

This was a long-lived legal argument. Samuel Farr's Elements of Medical Jurisprudence contained the same idea as late as 1814:

"For without an excitation of lust, or the enjoyment of pleasure in the venereal act, no conception can probably take place. So that if an absolute rape were to be perpetrated, it is not likely she would become pregnant."

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/21/2012 8:45:05 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
To support his conclusion, Mecklenburg cited studies that were allegedly done at extermination camps in Nazi Germany.

Nazis reportedly tested the theory “by selecting women who were about to ovulate and sending them to the gas chambers, only to bring them back after their realistic mock-killing, to see what the effect this had on their ovulatory patterns. An extremely high percentage of these women did not ovulate,” the article said.


Imo, the women ceasing ovulation (& so also menstration) was much more likely due to them starving, a low amount of body fat and reaching a point where the body ceases those functions in an effort to stay alive..

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/21/2012 9:01:49 PM   
smartsub10


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Status: offline 		Ovulation is when an egg is released from the ovary into the fallopian tube. Once this happens, the egg cannot be sent back to the ovary no matter the external circumstances.


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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/21/2012 9:21:17 PM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		I have got to add that conceivably - hypothetically - an elevated level of stress hormone, due to whatever hardship, might have an inhibiting effect on the egg cell, and/or on sperm and/or on a foetus.

However: there are the numbers of babies conceived after rape, as mentioned in a previous post. And as well there is the evolutionary argument that the behaviour of rape must increase reproductive success for the rapist for otherwise it would have been selected against.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 3:09:43 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Status: offline 		I'm all for post-partum abortion as long as pre-partum abortion is legal. Fair is fair.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 4:05:46 AM   
Aswad


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Status: offline 		Well, it worked for the Spartans...

That said, you might want to substantiate your reasoning, including addressing how this squares with the tradeoff in rights. Cutting off a foetus from its life support system (the womb) seems closer to turning off a life support machine than to shooting someone. There's also some nuances to address, such as whether the first day is different from the first week, the first month, the first trimester, or even the moment of birth. Should a spontaneous miscarriage be viewed the same as someone rolling over in their sleep and smothering the baby under them, for instance?

And, taking it a step further, do the starving kids in wherever have a right to my body, my labor, my money, my discomfort and so forth?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 5:21:09 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Imo, the women ceasing ovulation (& so also menstration) was much more likely due to them starving, a low amount of body fat and reaching a point where the body ceases those functions in an effort to stay alive..


I was wondering about this too.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 7:05:00 AM   
Fullfilher


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Status: offline 		That is the case. I took a few anthropology classes in college, what I learned was anthropologists spend a lot of time researching human sexuality and how it relates to animal (mostly primate) sexuality. Anyway my take away was two things: a) Women who lose weight to a certain point it shuts off their cycle. The body realizes it doesn't have enough fat and calorie intake to sustain a pregnancy, so the whole cycle shuts down. Date of first menstruation is also dependent on body fat. In some parts of Africa the average age of first menstruation is 18.5 years.

b) The second take away if you care, is that human males have the largest penis size of all primates by a wide margin. Scientists don't know why, but I'm guess some women have theories.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 8:27:31 AM   
VideoAdminTheta


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Status: offline 		Good day to all. I left a message and asked that you all stick to the topic while I cleaned and ended up having to lock the thread. We went from 45 member posts to 13.

Please stay on topic. Thank you

< Message edited by VideoAdminTheta -- 8/22/2012 10:55:10 AM >

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 7:08:27 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

a) Women who lose weight to a certain point it shuts off their cycle. The body realizes it doesn't have enough fat and calorie intake to sustain a pregnancy, so the whole cycle shuts down. Date of first menstruation is also dependent on body fat. In some parts of Africa the average age of first menstruation is 18.5 years.



That kind of weight loss and system "shutting down" is possible... but would have to occur before the rape for it to be the mechanism. After rape drastic weight loss would not account for it.

quote:



b) The second take away if you care, is that human males have the largest penis size of all primates by a wide margin. Scientists don't know why, but I'm guess some women have theories.


Which pretty much has nothing to do with the discussion.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 7:09:36 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		kalik....

You might appreciate this article...

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/08/reproductive-science

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 10:54:11 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
To support his conclusion, Mecklenburg cited studies that were allegedly done at extermination camps in Nazi Germany.

Nazis reportedly tested the theory “by selecting women who were about to ovulate and sending them to the gas chambers, only to bring them back after their realistic mock-killing, to see what the effect this had on their ovulatory patterns. An extremely high percentage of these women did not ovulate,” the article said.


Imo, the women ceasing ovulation (& so also menstration) was much more likely due to them starving, a low amount of body fat and reaching a point where the body ceases those functions in an effort to stay alive..



Exactly my thought.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/22/2012 11:56:08 PM   
SternParentz


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Status: offline 		I personally know someone can become pregnant from a rape. Even a virgin can. Her Domme was a switch and under consideration by me as an alpha sub. She was in full detail about being next to and holding down the drugged virgin sub as her then current lover raped her repeatedly. Her Domme released wantbaby from jealousy. The sub is newly pregnant. Of course, her former Domme isnt with her or letting her know she's even pregnant yet.

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/23/2012 5:09:01 AM   
subspaceseven


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Status: offline 		A number of babies conceived after rape, try over 10,000 in 2010,


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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/23/2012 5:12:16 AM   
subspaceseven


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Status: offline 		Another virgin who conceived after rape Mary...

rape; Noun; 1. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

Nowhere in the bible does it say she consented

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RE: Akin rape theory rooted in Nazi death camp experiments - 8/23/2012 5:44:33 AM   
mons


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Now rape, well let me see if a man were raped as much as women they make as sure
as hell it would not happen again!

In prison this happens to many men, but they are prisoner so not one want to "open" their eyes to the pain
they have!

But if this were to happen outside of a prison setting and it had happen as often as it does to woman, there would
be no question of what happens to rape victim, who in the hell give a shit about ovalating!

Oh yes the rape that did not happen was because he could not get it up!

I am sick to death about how he treated women whom had been raped!

This nazi stuff about gad chambers is so crazy what in the world does it have to do with rape???

I am shock as one of the poster said the women in the nazi death camps did not have an egg was do extreme beyond this world stress
they have just seen the children blast against wall father, mother anyone who,m meant their lifes was kill!!!!!!

So who in the hell believe that bull*&^%?

Please watch some of the Nazi documentaries!! They film everything, and it is so sad that someone here would
bring up this subject, do you know what you have just written and place women of today and the jewish women whom
suffered so much!

They were bald had no food, no clothing, packed in a box car for days and guess what they could not sit down, so the pee and had bowel movement
as they stood!!!!

So I wonder oh yes who in the hell will have an egg with all of that going on!

I am just floored by the op writing!! I want to know what this op was thinking, when the subjest of rape came up all of the sudden we
are writing about the Nazi death camp and eggs??

Yes you can get pregant when you are raped! I wonder did you ever hear of why many women had the birth of child sealed, then also when the
came to searh for this parent they wanted nothing to do with them!!!!!!!! The child later found out they were a child of rape!


mons

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