RE: punishment question

RE: punishment question (Full Version)

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GreedyTop -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 9:35:26 AM)
don't sulk. It's un-domly. LOL

myotherself -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 9:47:37 AM)
We have a punishment dynamic. He has some rules, but not many. At the beginning it felt like I was messing up every time - the first couple of times we'd talk about it, and if I forgot again (it was usually forgetting to do stuff) it would be a brief talk and a short physical punishment. At those times I used to get really angry and frustrated, but not at him, at myself. The rules weren't particularly onerous or gratuitous, I just took longer than I thought to get used to them. After a couple of months, I didn't have any punishments at all. Lots of funishment, but that's a whole other ball of wax [8D] Two years on, and I have only been punished once in the last 18 months (for mislaying something I was looking after for him). So no, I don't get angry or resentful of him during punishment. If I did, it would indicate that I didn't think I deserved the punishment or that the reasons were trivial. At that point it would be time to sit down and talk things through.

txsassykat -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 9:56:33 AM)
shuts the fuck up now....but not before grinning quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Snarky dominant dude's perspective... If you've agreed to orgasm denial, and you're sneaking off to play a few tunes on the lady ukulele, then either shut the fuck up and take your punishment or find another dom. If he's getting you all riled up and bringing you to the edge of orgasm which then results in your tipping over - then he should take the punishment, and make more of an effort to read you right. If you've agreed to call him Sir.... (and I say this reluctantly as the very idea of insisting on an honorific makes me shudder)... then when you forget then you need to shut the fuck up and take the punishment. Now... as for feelings of resentment during punishment.... I'd say that was fairly natural. But if the resentment persists, then you need to talk to your dom because if you're unhappy with the dynamic, then well... it needs to change or you need to walk.

txsassykat -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 9:59:50 AM)
This makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you! quote: ORIGINAL: myotherself We have a punishment dynamic. He has some rules, but not many. At the beginning it felt like I was messing up every time - the first couple of times we'd talk about it, and if I forgot again (it was usually forgetting to do stuff) it would be a brief talk and a short physical punishment. At those times I used to get really angry and frustrated, but not at him, at myself. The rules weren't particularly onerous or gratuitous, I just took longer than I thought to get used to them. After a couple of months, I didn't have any punishments at all. Lots of funishment, but that's a whole other ball of wax [8D] Two years on, and I have only been punished once in the last 18 months (for mislaying something I was looking after for him). So no, I don't get angry or resentful of him during punishment. If I did, it would indicate that I didn't think I deserved the punishment or that the reasons were trivial. At that point it would be time to sit down and talk things through.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 10:09:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: txsassykat kalikshama- I think you are right. I think he and i need to talk more about all these punishments cause it's not really working. I just get frustrated more. But to his offense, I think he does it because all we know is what we have seen online since we are so new to this. And all the online videos seem very punish happy. lol. Ah well the problem here is using porn as a how-to guide. Remember, porn is to get people off, so they can be as extreme or unrealistic as they want, as long as people keep masturbating to it. Worry less about what you see in the videos and worry more about what you both like. I promise, we won't tell you that you're doing it wrong if you decide that what works for you is different from what you see online. If this is a bedroom only deal, then perhaps sit down outside the bedroom as equals and explain this isn't working for you, and agree on a course to move forwards. Again, you can be submissive and still negotiate for something that makes you happy. You can say 'I feel you're expecting too much of me at once, let's take it one step at a time' or 'I'm so worried about being criticised for every mistake I can't enjoy this' or even 'I'd rather you spent some time showing me what you liked rather than punishing me'. It seems there is some confusion over the purpose of these punishments. Does he really want to change your behavior, or does he just get off on punishing you? Because there's a difference between 'I am very disappointed with the way you behaved today' and 'oh gosh you're so dirty you need a spanking'. It seems if he's making you orgasm then punishing you for it, he's looking for an excuse to punish for fun, but you're reacting to it like he's really disappointed and it's making you sad. Is that somewhere near the truth? If so then back to my point: the porn is to get people off. You don't have to be punished if that's not what works for you, and if you're playing at punishment, perhaps he can make it more playful so you don't feel bad. Now it's different for me because we are D/s all of the time, so I'm not sure how helpful my experiences are. But we do have a punishment dynamic, which doesn't work for a lot of people. By that I mean, if I break his rules or disobey (and not something I have no control over) I get a real, not for fun, punishment. And yes, there have been times where I've thought, 'this sucks' or wanted to spit my dummy out and say 'fine I won't be a sub anymore!' But the vast majority of the time this is something that adds to our relationship and on balance works for both of us. If I was consistently unhappy or angry with it, it would be time to talk about this relationship not working for me. And it sounds like your bedroom time is being dominated by something which isn't quite working for you yet, so you need to talk about this. tl;dr - put the porn down and figure out what actually works for you

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 10:27:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: myotherself We have a punishment dynamic. He has some rules, but not many. At the beginning it felt like I was messing up every time - the first couple of times we'd talk about it, and if I forgot again (it was usually forgetting to do stuff) it would be a brief talk and a short physical punishment. At those times I used to get really angry and frustrated, but not at him, at myself. The rules weren't particularly onerous or gratuitous, I just took longer than I thought to get used to them. After a couple of months, I didn't have any punishments at all. Lots of funishment, but that's a whole other ball of wax [8D] Two years on, and I have only been punished once in the last 18 months (for mislaying something I was looking after for him). So no, I don't get angry or resentful of him during punishment. If I did, it would indicate that I didn't think I deserved the punishment or that the reasons were trivial. At that point it would be time to sit down and talk things through. When we first started out in our relationship, we really struggled to get the balance right. I was 19 and relatively new to adult relationships and a bit immature, and my moods and emotions were often ...let's say dramatic. I was exactly the kind of sub that everyone says they would never put up with. I was often defiant and I tested and pushed and generally made a pain in the butt of myself. And in addition to this, like myotherself, some things just took longer to get than I thought it would. I had a wholly unrealistic perception of my own abilities, and thought I could be superwoman, and in retrospect we tried to do too much too soon. The result was a big mess of crap. I would be punished every day. My husband often didn't know what to do for the best; punish me for every offense to be consistent, even when some were just natural slip ups, or let me off on some things out of kindness. He would sometimes let me off and I would beat myself up about it instead, and obsess and get all upset, or think he no longer cared about the dynamic. Then the very next day he would punish me and I would be all pissed about it and feel very hard done to. (Yikes, typing this really brings home what a nightmare I was). Mixed in with this was the self-doubt of 'why can't I just obey if that's what I want?' What we did in the end was take a big step back from all of it. We started again, more slowly, with less focus on how we thought things 'should' go and more on what worked. It was tempting to get all excited and jump back in with both feet, but instead the rules and expectations were built up more slowly, the consequences were more consistent and we both did much better. We found out that punishment does work for us, but we had to ease into things slowly to stop all of the frustration the OP is having. Unlike you, myotherself, punishments still happen semi-regularly for us but like you the frustration has died away now because we've figured it out and got on the same page. But again, this is us doing it in all aspects of life so I'm not sure how directly that relates to you OP, other than in the broad sense of 'talk about it'

myotherself -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 12:10:35 PM)
What you wrote makes a lot of sense Athena - thank you! My initial issues with not 'getting it right' stemmed mainly because it was my first 'real' D/s relationship after a fair amount of time being either single or in very vanilla relationships, and I was used to doing things my way and in my time. Having to adjust to someone elses priorities and procedures was not as easy as I thought, and I'm lucky that Master was very patient with me. Now we're used to each other and we have a better understanding of each other's wants and needs, life is much simpler. Too many rules at once are pretty much a guarantee of failure. Slow and sure and consistent wins the day [:D]

crazyml -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 2:02:58 PM)
Quality advice Athena.

txsassykat -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 2:09:34 PM)
Great advice Athena. Thank you so much for sharing your viewpoints of what you've experienced as well as some tips. I can't tell you enough how refreshing it is to finally get connected with others involved in this lifestyle. It's not really something I can call and ask my mom about....haha.

GreedyTop -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 2:11:17 PM)
~FR~ I wanna keep this one ;)

subbingincalif -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 2:31:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: txsassykat My question is: do any other subs get angry sometimes when their Dom/Master punishes them? I know some subs get off on being punished and that's fine. But sometimes I find that my Dom (who is also a brand new beginner), punishes me over every little thing and I take it. But sometimes I also feel myself getting angry (although I never voice it during the punishment itself). I suppose my question is, do I even have the right to feel that way or do most subs just shut their emotions down and just take their punishments? Yes, you can dislike punishment. You can voice that dislike. You can talk with and negotiate with your dom over acceptable punishments. In fact it's wise to do this before any punishment. quote: ORIGINAL: txsassykat I realize that as my Dom, He has the right to punish me whenever and however He wants. Not really. You certainly can limit what he can punish you for and the types of punishment he can administer. In reality, a dom has a right to punish whenever and however the sub allows.

crazyml -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 2:33:16 PM)
ditto

kiwisub12 -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 4:00:45 PM)
I remember when i was a kid getting spanked by my Mum and Dad - and i never ever thought to myself that "gosh - they did that so i would be a better person and i should try harder to do well, and i love that they care enough to punish me". Mostly i resented the hell out of it - which is why when i went into a live-in D/s relationship, my Sir made sure that i was aware of the rules (not many, thank Goddess/God) and made it easy for me to abide by them. and exactly how many rules can you possibly have in the bedroom? Saying Sir at the end of a sentence i could understand - but only if you aren't saying a paragraph. It would get tedious for EVERY sentence to have to remember to say sir. Since this seems to be an issue (because you made the effort to come online and post it) perhaps you should write down the rules he has and the two of you could discuss which ones are a bit much. Sounds like he needs to par them down so they are managable for the two of you.

limpshorty -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 4:09:13 PM)
Athena's mention about "How things should go . . " and how not to go there, was really good to hear, for me. I find it both funny, and tragic that a segment of the population which knows that its every living moment is a contradiction and denial of the vanilla definition of what people "should" do so often clings to our own rituals. Who prescribes the emotional ways that a Submissive should act, and a Dom or Domme should act? So many of us know that the commercially driven model of dominance and submission is entirely as stringent a set of expectations as the straightlaced vanilla blue law moralists have. We laughinglly reject the latter out of hand, and even as we do it, we wrap ourselves in a new set of someone elses expectations. We might well be wearing straight jackets. No, we might like that, let's call them Three Piece Suits. If a sub pouts, and acts out, even screams and yells, it's human behavior. If a Dom or Domme gets overwhelmed with unexpedted consequence of life, and breaks down, needing comfort from the nearst human, it is human beahvior. It will have consequences in the kinky relationship, or in a vanilla one. Maybe even the same consequences, but maybe quite different. Adding a review board of experienced dominants and submissives to impose standards is ridiculous, even if the board isn't self appointed and spouting true Scottsman nonsense. We aren't in Kansas anymore, People! Leave a note for Aunti Em. "Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog. D" limpshorty

kalikshama -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 4:53:23 PM)
quote: Adding a review board of experienced dominants and submissives to impose standards is ridiculous, even if the board isn't self appointed and spouting true Scottsman nonsense. Are you alleging that this is happening here? For example?

DarkSteven -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 6:10:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: txsassykat kalikshama- I think you are right. I think he and i need to talk more about all these punishments cause it's not really working. I just get frustrated more. But to his offense, I think he does it because all we know is what we have seen online since we are so new to this. And all the online videos seem very punish happy. lol. Yeah, the videos are ridiculous about that. In truth, a Dominant needs no excuse to spank his or her sub, except that he or she just wants to do it. I never understood the videos' insistence on some pretext. Let me differentiate between fun spankings and punishment ones. Fun spankings are, well, fun. Both should enjoy them or at least, enjoy the fact that the Dom/me can and does do them. Punishment spankings should be enjoyed by neither. If the bottom enjoys them, then he or she will act up to get them. If the Dom enjoys them, then he or she may end up creating infractions and frustrating his/her sub. txsassycat, I'm confused on one point. Your profile makes it clear that you see all this stuff as being confined to the bedroom. If so, a punishment dynamic doesn't really fit because punishment applies to actions that occur outside the bedroom.

DesFIP -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 6:48:19 PM)
Porn isn't real. His punishment ought to be to write that 500 times, and to stop watching it. If he doesn't want you to orgasm without permission then he needs to teach you how to control it. I'm betting he doesn't know how to teach it. This is akin to being punished for failing math when the math teacher never taught the subject. I've had incompetent professors and thought very little that's printable about them. Beyond that, I imagine he's had a job. Who did he work harder for, the boss who screamed at him everytime he made a mistake or the one who patiently helped him become proficient in the work and who applauded him when he learned it? Same here. Which boss does he want to be?

graceadieu -> RE: punishment question (8/22/2012 9:15:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: txsassykat Love your response too Greedy. I think it's cause we are such newbies...it's finding that fine line of how much to push and stuff. Just heard of so many subs who seem to be like "Whatever Master says". And it's like they can't think for themselves. For what it's worth, those subs (presumably) have had months or years or decades to learn and practice following their partners' rules and preferences. Nobody starts out obeying every thing 100% perfectly from the very first time they get into D/s. Also, it being real life and all, nobody really is ever going to do everything 100% perfect even after years together. You have to have reasonable realistic expectations of each other, and if what you're doing now isn't working to try something else. For example, if you guys want to go with you saying "sir" at the end of every sentence - that sounds like something that could be cultivated by repetition. Every time you forget he can just remind you and make you say the sentence again until it becomes a habit.

DarkSteven -> RE: punishment question (8/23/2012 5:17:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu For example, if you guys want to go with you saying "sir" at the end of every sentence - that sounds like something that could be cultivated by repetition. Every time you forget he can just remind you and make you say the sentence again until it becomes a habit. Do you WANT to do this? If a sub is trained to do that, not only does it get inane very fast, but there will come times when the sub will slip up and say Sir in public. If a submissive is trained to do something and then has to be untrained because the Dominant didn't think it through, it will no cause her to hold her Dom in high esteem. IMO punishment should be reserved for things like poor time management, and smoking or other bad habits after being ordered to quit (with the sub's agreement).

sexyred1 -> RE: punishment question (8/23/2012 8:52:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: txsassykat Love your response too Greedy. I think it's cause we are such newbies...it's finding that fine line of how much to push and stuff. Just heard of so many subs who seem to be like "Whatever Master says". And it's like they can't think for themselves. I can assure you, subs think for themselves (well, mostly). I know I do. If you are both newbies alot of communication is needed and if this is just in the bedroom, then you absolutely can discuss anything about how you feel, even being angry. If he does not listen to you, then that is a problem.

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