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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 9:12:14 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		What I don't understand (as someone who has blood stored in case some catastrophe requires that I use it) is how taking blood out of his body at a time when he's eating FOOD and then, putting it back into his body is an issue.

He is using an available medical technique (which doesn't include a performance enhancing drug other than specific types of FOOD) to his advantage. I'm at a fucking loss.

I hope someone strips the IOC of their bullshit authority (I heard he was banned from the olympics for life so, they're involved, somehow).



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 8/25/2012 9:14:16 AM >

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 9:13:48 AM   
Thaz


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Status: offline 		Yeah. There is no doubt in my mind that Mr Armstrong was 'assisted' but there is also no doubt n my mind so was every other 'Star' of his era. He was and is a great athlete and no doubt better than his fellows.

The British Team were using some very nice bikes and clothing in London, better than was avaiable to others. Bradley Wiggins:- His Sky team arranged a special yellow version of their clothing and got this the nod instead of the tradtional organisation supplied yellow jersey. In x years time will they strip his titles?

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 9:19:42 AM   
FrostedFlake


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Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
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quote:

The USADA’s case against him, which followed a two-year federal investigation which had failed to yield a prosecution, relied on witness statements from 10 former colleagues and what they claim is new evidence of positive tests from 38 samples previously passed as negative during Armstrong’s comeback to the sport between 2009 and 2011.


Hmmm...

Suppose your Collage gave you a call. Told you you had not in fact passed English Comp. And you really don't have a degree. And so, of course, you are not qualified for your job. And so, of course, you are now unemployable.

How would you feel about that?

I don't know what it says about drug tests when you can fail them years after you pass them. But I do know what that says about this process.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 9:27:48 AM   
Missokyst


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Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with OG.
If I had to fight year after year even after being under constant scrutiny I would say fuck this.
None hunk of metal is worth having to put up with that sort of crap.
I used to sell my art work from 300-500 a piece. When my ex-husband started claiming they were his to his clients and they believed it I slit every canvas I had in my possession.
Money, metal, means nothing. KNOWING that it was yours no matter what anyone else thinks is priceless.
He won those IMO. Having someone strip them from him does not change my opinion of that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

The man has gone under extensive testing, time after time. I am sure he tired of it, I would be. I am glad Nike is standing behind him still. Each test was negative, how much more crap is he going to have to go through? I say he is innocent.


He's been fighting this literally for years. At some point you just become tired of it. It consumes your life. The reality is that regardless of being stripped of his titles, everyone knows who he is and what he did.




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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 9:43:05 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

I think he allmost certainly was dirty but I suspect he was far far from alone and it was not considered an issue at the time.


A television sports commentator made the claim that every 2nd place finisher in each of Armstrong's seven victories has tested positive for doping or implicated in some way. Says a lot about the sport. I wonder: if you are allowed to modify your bike [within certain parameters I'm guessing] why are you not allowed to modify your body? Would the issue be solved if drugs were made legal and the playing field were leveled, or does that violate the purity of the sport?

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 9:45:40 AM   
searching4mysir


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If he doesn't have to give back the money, fuck the title.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 9:51:04 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I think he allmost certainly was dirty but I suspect he was far far from alone and it was not considered an issue at the time.


A television sports commentator made the claim that every 2nd place finisher in each of Armstrong's seven victories has tested positive for doping or implicated in some way. Says a lot about the sport. I wonder: if you are allowed to modify your bike [within certain parameters I'm guessing] why are you not allowed to modify your body? Would the issue be solved if drugs were made legal and the playing field were leveled, or does that violate the purity of the sport?

The problem with performance enhancing drugs is that they kill you......slowly.
If someone who has matured wants to kill themselves, fine but what about HS kids who just dont fucking know any better? Do we want an epidemic of pancreatic cancer in 25-30 yo males who used to play HS football?

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 10:11:07 AM   
angelikaJ


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Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

What I don't understand (as someone who has blood stored in case some catastrophe requires that I use it) is how taking blood out of his body at a time when he's eating FOOD and then, putting it back into his body is an issue.

He is using an available medical technique (which doesn't include a performance enhancing drug other than specific types of FOOD) to his advantage. I'm at a fucking loss.

I hope someone strips the IOC of their bullshit authority (I heard he was banned from the olympics for life so, they're involved, somehow).



Peace and comfort,



Michael


Edit to add:
There is no intended snark in my question.

You don't understand blood doping?
Your response indicates you don't.

It isn't the food that is the performance enhancing part. It is the extra blood volume itself.
As I understand it the extra volume gives extra red cells (and the associated higher hematocrit and hemoglobin levels) the ability to carry extra oxygen around in your blood.
This carries more oxygen to one's muscles and gives an advantage of endurance among other things.

It is seen as an unfair advantage and is against the rules in sports; has been since 1986.



< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 8/25/2012 10:13:08 AM >

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 2:07:02 PM   
MariaB


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Status: offline 		Lance was given EPO during his cancer treatment. He acknowledges this, its no secret. When he started training after his cancer treatment he was routinely tested for drugs, just as every other pro cyclist was. The UCI discussed his use of EPO (which doesn't show up in the blood) and with the full understanding of why it had been administered. His license to race was re-issued.
In 1998 'The Tour' and in fact the whole of French cycling came into disrepute after drugs were discovered in every other competing cyclist. Lance was commentating on that race for American TV as he wasn't yet well enough to take part in 'The Tour'. The following year 1999 was the first Tour Lance won. The stringent measures that had been put in place because of the previous year were in Lances own words, 'Over the top'.

He then went on to race for 10 years and not only was he a consistent winner, he was hope. Hope for all those other cancer victims out there. Lance Armstrong had all the odds against him but he survived and went on to become a world champion.

This year we were lucky enough to follow 'The Tour' and cheer on Bradley. I even got to write his name on a few hills!




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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 2:12:45 PM   
LizDeluxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I can't continue to believe he's innocent if he calmly accepts being stripped of all his titles.


I can. He's fought the fight for years and has had enough. He's not going to win and he knew it.


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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 2:20:39 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
The problem with performance enhancing drugs is that they kill you......slowly.

That is true of anabolic steroids but is not true of epo which is what he is accused of using.

I get epo 3 times a week as part of dialysis, a healthy person make it in the kidneys.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 2:21:21 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		I think that Lance Armstrong cheated and I think that everyone else in that sport also cheated. i don't believe that someone can go thtough those cancer treatments and be able to endure those bike races.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 2:37:45 PM   
Focus50


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From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Reports here said the USADA have stripped Lance of his 7 Tour de France titles. Is that right?

Cos, yanno, kinda think that's entirely up to the French organisers of the event - but that's me.

Focus.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 2:43:33 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think that Lance Armstrong cheated and I think that everyone else in that sport also cheated. i don't believe that someone can go thtough those cancer treatments and be able to endure those bike races.


Timeline

He was diagnosed with cancer in October 1996.

In 1993 he won a stage on the Tour de France and he won another stage in 1995.
He dropped out of the tour in 1996 due to illness (before he was diagnosed).

His treatment for cancer included both neurosurgery to excise tumors and chemotherapy.
For his chemo he avoided a drug known to damage lungs.
He had his last chemo treatment December 1996.

He won the Tour de France in 1999.
I am not sure why it is not credible that he could win more than 2 years later.
I also don't think his use of EPO at the time of his treatment is relevant, nor does it suggest any possible legitimate reason for using it after his cancer treatment was finished, long before he resumed training.



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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 4:15:32 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Status: offline 		I think he has come to realize that there are more important things to spend his time on and is choosing to cut his losses. And I think that is an amazing lesson - the man continues to be someone to look up to...

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 4:29:57 PM   
SWDesertDom


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Status: offline 		A) Doping (of all kinds) is rampant in sports (of all kinds) today.

B) The Anti Doping Agencies are professional witch finders (whether or not there is a witch, they are gonna produce one for the bonfire). They set their own rules, the rule of law be damned. They do what they want, there is no appeal. They may find some guilty people, but that's accidental, they are in it for self-aggrandizement and the control. They should be run out of town (every town) on a rail, after a proper tarring and feathering.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 5:04:15 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		mmmmm that's hot. The idea excites me.
I think I am becoming a full fledged anarchist.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 5:24:00 PM   
ARIES83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I think he has come to realize that there are more important things to spend his time on and is choosing to cut his losses. And I think that is an amazing lesson - the man continues to be someone to look up to...


+1! I'll go along with that.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 5:33:15 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		If he did cheat he would be someone not to look up to.

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RE: Was this a witch hunt? - 8/25/2012 6:40:00 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Real runners should run without shoes. I mean, really. Arch supports, wicking fabric, and such are cheating! Y'all know I'm right.

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