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RE: Levels - 8/26/2012 8:37:39 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Well, let's not attempt to make it an absolute. The leather community certainly does have a hierarchy based on experience level. It's how we determine who is senior or junior for formal events. However, the hierarchy isn't usually within the dynamic, but as opposed to peers. For example, where I am in the hierarchy relates to other Masters. Same goes for seniority among slaves.

The leather community is absolutely just as welcome to have our ways of hierarchy just the same as the less formal folks are welcome to not. They really shouldn't be referred to as bullshit.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Karmastic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Levels - 8/26/2012 9:06:46 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The leather community is absolutely just as welcome to have our ways of hierarchy just the same as the less formal folks are welcome to not. They really shouldn't be referred to as bullshit.



Yes, I agree. I was talking about highschool-ish social hierarchies. When it comes to knowledge and expertise, not everyone is equal, and some people really do know more than other people. I'd love to listen to David Stein talk for a long time. (should be david stein maybe?)

That said, the leader of the munch, or the owner of the club, isn't always the wisest or most dextrous person in the room.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Levels - 8/26/2012 9:16:16 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Well, let's not attempt to make it an absolute. The leather community certainly does have a hierarchy based on experience level. It's how we determine who is senior or junior for formal events. However, the hierarchy isn't usually within the dynamic, but as opposed to peers. For example, where I am in the hierarchy relates to other Masters. Same goes for seniority among slaves.

The leather community is absolutely just as welcome to have our ways of hierarchy just the same as the less formal folks are welcome to not. They really shouldn't be referred to as bullshit.


It's funny you mention this because I attended a lecture by a guy who is part of the leather community and his take on things (outside of the leather community that is) was pretty open and accepting. I kind of felt like his perspective was that those in leather are very structured...but he was also aware there were many who aren't leather, and as such, are not going to follow that sort of structure...and how it was not that they were "wrong", just different.

_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Levels - 8/26/2012 9:45:15 PM   
subbingincalif


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/13/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JnSnPA

What are the different levels of sub/dom are there? Would someone be so kind as to explain the levels to us? Or point us in the right direction of a good explanation.

He has some mild exp and she has none.

Thanks in advance for any input.



Cutting to the chase: There is virtually no uniform definition for any BDSM term. People will argue about how a sub is different than a slave. What an "extreme" player means is in the eye of the beholder. So just use these terms as very very very broad stakes in the ground to understand where someone is coming from, but you never know for sure until you talk to them.

(in reply to JnSnPA)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Levels - 8/27/2012 12:10:30 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD
It's funny you mention this because I attended a lecture by a guy who is part of the leather community and his take on things (outside of the leather community that is) was pretty open and accepting. I kind of felt like his perspective was that those in leather are very structured...but he was also aware there were many who aren't leather, and as such, are not going to follow that sort of structure...and how it was not that they were "wrong", just different.
Absolutely. That is the what works for each BDSMconcept. That doesn't mean that leather people won't see BDSM people through their perspective or that BDSM folks should do differently. It's also the part that says your kink is just as welcome in the play space as Mine, within dungeon rules, of course. I'm hoping he also went on to explain the absence of expectations for leather protocols within BDSM venues. (Again, within those same dungeon rules.)

However, some can see this as double edged sword. While I can not expect BDSM folks to have the same kind of protocols as leather folks do, it also means that I am not honor bound to extend the benefits that come from those protocols in BDSM venues.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Levels - 8/27/2012 12:18:18 AM   
kitkat105


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline 		There are "twue and weal" subs and Doms. The rest of us are just fakers.

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"WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS!"

Odeen's spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down

Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags

Secretary - ProSubs"R"Us

(in reply to Karmastic)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Levels - 8/27/2012 6:59:31 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JnSnPA
Thank you for the positive comments. I apologize again for not making my question clearer from the beginning, but a couple of you caught on to what I was getting at and helped clarify my question and answered as well. Thank you again for the input and sorry for the newb-ness lol

Yup, I agree ... poor questions are a fact of life when you don't understand the topic. I do it all the time when I'm exploring some new idea in my head. I would like to ask though...

What WAS the correct question?


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to JnSnPA)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Levels - 8/27/2012 9:26:57 AM   
JnSnPA


Posts: 14
Joined: 8/26/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: JnSnPA
Thank you for the positive comments. I apologize again for not making my question clearer from the beginning, but a couple of you caught on to what I was getting at and helped clarify my question and answered as well. Thank you again for the input and sorry for the newb-ness lol

Yup, I agree ... poor questions are a fact of life when you don't understand the topic. I do it all the time when I'm exploring some new idea in my head. I would like to ask though...

What WAS the correct question?



I guess I was trying more to get an explanation of the different "types" ie sub-slave-pet etc and master-Dom-daddy... I'm understanding better now that they are more titles than anything.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Levels - 8/27/2012 9:39:51 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JnSnPA
I guess I was trying more to get an explanation of the different "types" ie sub-slave-pet etc and master-Dom-daddy... I'm understanding better now that they are more titles than anything.

Various people, myself included, have tried to deconstruct BDSM. Honestly it's like trying to deconstruct marriage. My example continues to hold. What are the "types" of marriage? As near as I know, every single marriage is unique. Some marriages share more or less similarities with others. But even that is fraught with peril. Each marriage has lots and lots of different attributes. My marriage is very similar to some others I know on some of those attributes and very different on others. In a sense it becomes a "how do you want to slice the pie?" problem. I find that different "slices" are useful for examining different specific things.

For instance, I don't think of myself as being in a "daddy" dynamic yet my marriage certainly has similarities to what I understand of that.

Perhaps the best way to think of it all is to see BDSM as one huge honkin' smorgasbord and you get to walk down the counter piling up whatever looks appealing on your plate.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to JnSnPA)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Levels - 8/27/2012 9:54:54 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JnSnPA


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: JnSnPA
Thank you for the positive comments. I apologize again for not making my question clearer from the beginning, but a couple of you caught on to what I was getting at and helped clarify my question and answered as well. Thank you again for the input and sorry for the newb-ness lol

Yup, I agree ... poor questions are a fact of life when you don't understand the topic. I do it all the time when I'm exploring some new idea in my head. I would like to ask though...

What WAS the correct question?



I guess I was trying more to get an explanation of the different "types" ie sub-slave-pet etc and master-Dom-daddy... I'm understanding better now that they are more titles than anything.


Truly, they come down to what each of us is comfortable and happy with.

I call Master "Daddy". We do not engage in age play, but for us "Daddy" was a less formal and more approachable than "Sir".

I don't believe in consentual slavery and use the term submissive.

After awhile, you just kind of figure out what works for you. The best advice I can give is to not let others define you based on their views. Just be you and be happy.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to JnSnPA)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Levels - 8/27/2012 5:43:29 PM   
CRYPTICLXVI


Posts: 3907
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Various people, myself included, have tried to deconstruct BDSM. Honestly it's like trying to deconstruct marriage. My example continues to hold. What are the "types" of marriage? As near as I know, every single marriage is unique. Some marriages share more or less similarities with others. But even that is fraught with peril. Each marriage has lots and lots of different attributes. My marriage is very similar to some others I know on some of those attributes and very different on others. In a sense it becomes a "how do you want to slice the pie?" problem. I find that different "slices" are useful for examining different specific things.

For instance, I don't think of myself as being in a "daddy" dynamic yet my marriage certainly has similarities to what I understand of that.

Perhaps the best way to think of it all is to see BDSM as one huge honkin' smorgasbord and you get to walk down the counter piling up whatever looks appealing on your plate.



Cool, post-modern bdsm.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Levels - 8/28/2012 3:20:33 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

quote:

I'm not referring to levels like a video game.. I meant the levels of intensity so to speak.. I've seen some post about "extreme sub/dom"

Sorry, I should have clarified more. If I'm still off base, I apoligize.. Please ignore me.


There is no classifications like that. BDSM is a catch all umbrella term that cover everything from someone liking to tie their boyfriend down with silk scarves when they have sex to those that live in a 24/7 relationship as Master and slave with their own torture chamber in the basement. In addition to that you will have those that just like the sadism and masochism, I heard of one man who got his jollies from going to women's houses and cleaning for them. No sex, no whipping, nothing else he enjoyed to come in, clean the house and leave. BDSM have all sort of shapes and sizes, and you will not find a level from 0 to 100 so that if someone is at level 53 they like such and such type of play. Some like rough play in one area but not in another, it is individual and the only rules are the ones set by the individuals within their given relationship.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to JnSnPA)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Levels - 8/28/2012 5:11:44 PM   
txdiamond68


Posts: 19
Joined: 8/13/2012
Status: offline 		When we try to pigeonhole BDSM we wind up, more often than not, sticking our foots in our mouths or to be more blunt: "pissing on someone's kink." (careful, they might like that!)

I get almost as irritated by that as I do the little clicky box thingies here on CM. Its ridiculous to think that someone can be an expert in kink play or *cough* garage sales... How do you measure that?? If its just a matter of experience?

How does one become a slave? How does one get to put the title of LORDGOD of the Freakin Universe in front of their moniker? There are various levels of involvement, and different types of dominance and submission. Trying to label people in order to classify them like some unknown creatures on planet Nubiru *snickers* using some sort of kinky taxonomy system is an exercise in futility.

I find it hard to label myself, much less anyone else.

For the OP: There are extremely heavy/hard players, there are people who play only in their bedroom, and there are those who do it almost as a sporting event trying to get the "biggest and baddest" medal. Folks simply have to find what they are comfortable with and perhaps push their limits a little to see what makes their clock tick. :)

Have a great day!

~t

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Levels - 8/28/2012 10:34:25 PM   
JnSnPA


Posts: 14
Joined: 8/26/2012
Status: offline 		Thank you for all of the great answers! I now understand better than before. Y'all are awesome

(in reply to txdiamond68)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Levels - 8/29/2012 6:46:38 AM   
Asfixation


Posts: 43
Joined: 3/11/2011
Status: offline 		Dear JeffBC

I love that answer....levels of marriage????
I can think of a few: contractual, failed, first, second, third, vanilla, stagnant....all words are labels.
Forgive me...I haven't posted here for so long I've even forgotten if I am an ice cream cone in this incarnation or a row of paddles.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Levels - 8/29/2012 7:36:46 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JnSnPA
Thank you for all of the great answers! I now understand better than before. Y'all are awesome

Your welcome. And here... just to show how helpful I'm feeling today I'll go ahead and settle your next problem for you also. If you take our advice and ignore the types and levels and labels and just put together your buffet plate according to what looks good to you two... the actual participants in the relationship... you're going to run afoul of the dreaded "true" problem. Yup, you're not going to be true because you didn't decide to model your life after BDSM porn. You're probably going to look at the available label set and try to pick one that seems reasonable to you based upon whatever you end up doing. Others will challenge you on that. The right answer is to just ignore the whole label thing and to realize that anyone who gets caught up in it lacks experience and/or wisdom.

There are some ways that my marriage with Carol conforms to the "norms" of a BDSM M/s relationship. There are other ways it does not. Someone else might look at it and see either answer and they are both correct. For people who focus on the authority dynamic aspect Carol and I are "deep end of the pool". For those who focus on the physical things we're not even BDSM. For those that feel an M/s relationship must involve a selfish master then we are "soft & fluffy". For those who feel that if she can leave then she's actually "free" again, we are "just playing games". Each person seems to bring key aspects to how they define the labels and you're either going to measure up or not. It's a fool's errand to even try.

I can tell you what I know for a fact though. We are truly happy. I'd recommend that as a great label to get behind... "happy". It's not all that surprising that we are happy. That was my goal rather than competing in some BDSM trueness competition.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to JnSnPA)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Levels - 8/29/2012 9:10:11 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC


I can tell you what I know for a fact though. We are truly happy. I'd recommend that as a great label to get behind... "happy". It's not all that surprising that we are happy. That was my goal rather than competing in some BDSM trueness competition.



Well of course you would say that, you're not a true dom. You're clearly just trying to deflect attention from your fakeness. Also, deep end? Have you forgotten that as a married person you're forever confined to the children's wading pool?

OP - Seriously, Jeff is absolutely right. Whatever you decide is right for you and your partner is the right way to do it. Ignore anyone who tells you that you're doing it wrong because you don't do it their way. There might be different labels you can put on different types of D/s or BDSM relationships, but don't fall into the trap of thinking of them as value judgments. They are nothing more than approximate and imperfect terms we use to try and help other people to understand us.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Levels - 8/29/2012 11:28:44 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		By using cheat codes, I have been able to reach levels that I wouldn't have been able to achieve otherwise.

You are talking about Halo3, aren't you?

(in reply to JnSnPA)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Levels - 8/29/2012 4:07:37 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JnSnPA

What are the different levels of sub/dom are there? Would someone be so kind as to explain the levels to us? Or point us in the right direction of a good explanation.

He has some mild exp and she has none.

Thanks in advance for any input.


This is easy.

Level 1.

Level 2....and....

Level 3.

(By the way....level 4.....you don't wanna go there).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 8/29/2012 4:14:54 PM >

(in reply to JnSnPA)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Levels - 8/29/2012 4:10:21 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
Well of course you would say that, you're not a true dom. You're clearly just trying to deflect attention from your fakeness. Also, deep end? Have you forgotten that as a married person you're forever confined to the children's wading pool?

Look, just because the truly trueness of my truly dominant personality truly confounds you doesn't truly mean I'm trying be untrue about my trueness. And the last time I had a kiddie pool the yard was a little sloped so there WAS a deep end. It just had to be a good inch deeper than the shallow end but I dived right in.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
Profile   Post #: 40
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