RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 10:30:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
What do you find not credible about this guy, Funk??


He's a progressive who is promoting the progressive agenda. So IMO his views and opinions come from a progressive standpoint, and are jaded.

Are you saying that because he's a progressive, he doesn't know what he's talking about?

I'm just trying to clarify here, not strawman, because the implications are that discoveries made by a progressive scientist are invalid.

You may be uninteltionally pointing out the problems with the country's leadership. if one side of the aisle wants to pass a bill claiming the sun came up in the East this morning, the other side will claim, no, it came up in the west.

Toss the partisan crap and look at the data and conclusions.




SadistDave -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 10:38:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
What do you find not credible about this guy, Funk??


He's a progressive who is promoting the progressive agenda. So IMO his views and opinions come from a progressive standpoint, and are jaded.

Are you saying that because he's a progressive, he doesn't know what he's talking about?

I'm just trying to clarify here, not strawman, because the implications are that discoveries made by a progressive scientist are invalid.

You may be uninteltionally pointing out the problems with the country's leadership. if one side of the aisle wants to pass a bill claiming the sun came up in the East this morning, the other side will claim, no, it came up in the west.

Toss the partisan crap and look at the data and conclusions.


Funk isn't a scientist.... he's an environmental regulatory lawyer. He wouldn't know science if it hit him in the face with an endangered species. All he does is consult about, teach about, and write about how to pass regulations.

As I stated on page one, that creates a conflict of interest in Funks opinions on regulatory reform.

-SD-




subrob1967 -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 10:47:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


Are you saying that because he's a progressive, he doesn't know what he's talking about?

I'm just trying to clarify here, not strawman, because the implications are that discoveries made by a progressive scientist are invalid.

You may be uninteltionally pointing out the problems with the country's leadership. if one side of the aisle wants to pass a bill claiming the sun came up in the East this morning, the other side will claim, no, it came up in the west.

Toss the partisan crap and look at the data and conclusions.


No, I'm saying his conclusions are based on his biases... Like I pointed out, for every point Funk makes, there's an expert there who is willing to testify Funk is full of shit... How's that for data and conclusions?

Let me ask you this, would you consider Sean Hannity an expert?

He's been peer reviewed, published, and holds at least one degree. And he's won multiple awards in his field... Is he a credible expert?

How about Michael Savage? Would you go to him for medical advice? He has a Doctorate, been peer reviewed, and published... Does that not make him an expert as well?




OttersSwim -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 10:49:22 AM)

Right because God forbid he should actually know something about the subject he is talking about...[8|]




subrob1967 -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 10:51:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Right because God forbid he should actually know something about the subject he is talking about...[8|]



So you're ready to hop right over to San Fran and get therapy from Michael Savage, right?




mnottertail -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 11:01:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Let me ask you this, would you consider Sean Hannity an expert?

He's been peer reviewed, published, and holds at least one degree. And he's won multiple awards in his field... Is he a credible expert?



He has an honorary degree from Jerry Falwell, and his 'peers' that have reviewed him are of dubious character as well.  He won several talk show host awards.

I guess that we need to maybe understand what the similarities are, because I gotta tell you as a qualitative thing, you are comparing apples to horseshit.





Hillwilliam -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 11:01:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


How about Michael Savage? Would you go to him for medical advice? He has a Doctorate, been peer reviewed, and published... Does that not make him an expert as well?

Because he's a homeopath and not an MD. If he was a good knee surgeon and local, I'd use him in a heartbeat. I don't give a crap what a professional's politics are. If they know their field, I'll use them. Why would an accountant or a carpenter be less competent because of their voting record? C'mon man, that was deliberate density on your part.

Again, if a scientist makes a discovery, are you going to look at how he votes before prior to giving that discovery credence?

ED for grammar




OttersSwim -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 11:02:35 AM)

Mr. Funk is far more qualified to do what he does than Michael Savage is to give advice - the advice is just the gimmick of Michael Savage's talk radio entertainment show. Michael Savage is an entertainer - he does that very well and I would give credence to his opinions on how to be an entertainer and on the entertainment and talk radio industry.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 11:06:11 AM)

If Savage wanted to talk Botany, I'd be all ears.




DomKen -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 11:06:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So to you the fact that he is an expert in the field means nothing?

Do you not see how this mind set is what is wrong with the conservative movement?


What makes him an expert Ken? His word? His pontificating? His academic credentials? Peer review by others who believe the same way he does?

His education and career experience makes him an expert in this field.




DomKen -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 11:09:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Let me ask you this, would you consider Sean Hannity an expert?

He's been peer reviewed, published, and holds at least one degree. And he's won multiple awards in his field... Is he a credible expert?

Hannity holds no earned degrees.

But I would concede he is an expert in his field, that being being a lying loudmouth.




DomYngBlk -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 11:48:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

Romney's Regulatory Policy?
William Funk | 06/27/12

It William Funk.png is probably too much to expect of Presidential campaigns to put forth programs that are honest and meaningful, so one should not be surprised that the recent release of Mitt Romney’s Plan for Jobs and Economic Growth falls squarely within the realm of campaign bluster rather than real answers to real questions. In particular, his plan’s chapter entitled “Regulatory Policy” identifies non-existent problems and then proposes solutions that are either impractical or illegal.
It starts with an introduction that cites the Small Business Administration study that claimed the cost of regulations is $1.75 trillion annually. As much as this study has been cited by those opposed to regulations, it has been subject to convincing refutation by those on the other side. To those more interested in facts, one can only say that the study is not a very good estimate of the cost of regulations.

From there, the introduction asks: “with foreign companies operating in a less regulated environment than ours, is it any wonder that our country’s share of the global marketplace in manufacturing is on the decline and that American jobs have been lost to lower-cost competitors abroad?” But what country in the developed world has the lowest unemployment and an increasing share of the global marketplace in manufacturing? The answer is Germany. Yet Germany’s “right” – Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union – is left of America’s Democratic party, and Germany’s regulation of business makes the U.S. look like Hong Kong. Moreover, Germany is a nation with a national health care system, and whose private sector employment is almost three times as unionized as in the U.S. In short, government regulation is the least of America’s problems in explaining loss of manufacturing share in the world market or the reasons why American jobs have been lost to foreign competitors.

Why, bullseye.jpg according to Romney, is there this horrible regulation? First, he suggests that “federal agencies today have near plenary power to issue whatever regulations they see fit.” Second, he posits that although nominally controlled by the President, “in actual practice agencies are frequently able to act autonomously with little or no presidential oversight.” As anyone even remotely involved with government regulation knows, agencies do not have plenary power to issue whatever regulations they see fit. Legal, political, and resource restrictions in fact constrain agencies within very narrow boundaries. Moreover, Presidential control of agency regulation, both directly and indirectly through the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, is at a highpoint, with only the independent regulatory agencies exempt.

The Obama Administration is blamed for having an expansive regulatory agenda. Romney claims that “the regulatory workforce grew by 16 percent, or 276,429 employees” during the first two years of the Obama administration. No citation is given for these figures, and the Office of Personnel Management’s reports for that period indicate that the total executive branch civilian employment outside the Pentagon increased by only 71,000, or less than 6 percent, and most of these new employees are not regulators.

So what is to be done? First, repeal Dodd-Frank and replace it with a “streamlined, modern regulatory framework” that “creates a simple, predictable, and efficient regulatory system”? No details are provided on what this “modern regulatory framework” would look like or how he could get such a system through the new Congress. Second, assuming the Supreme Court does not invalidate Obamacare, President Romney would issue an executive order on his first day in office requiring HHS “to return the maximum possible authority to the states to innovate and design health care solutions that work best for them.” Would this order reduce regulation of the health insurance industry, or would it just ensure a multiplicity of different regulations in different states with which multi-state companies will have to comply?

Another executive order for the first day would direct all agencies “to immediately initiate the elimination of Obama-era regulations that unduly burden the economy or job creation.” No detail is given as to which regulations are targeted or how to determine what an undue burden is. This executive order would go even further, by imposing a regulatory cap on new regulations. That is, the regulatory burden on America could not be increased. New regulations would have to go through a budget-like process that would require the costs of any new regulation to be offset by simultaneously repealing or amending an existing regulation in order to achieve cost-neutrality . This proposal is obviously unworkable in practice and probably illegal with respect to regulations required by law.

After the first day, President Romney would ask Congress to pass a law like the proposed REINS Act, requiring all rules having greater than $100 million in economic impact to be approved by both houses of Congress before taking effect. Someone should tell Mr. Romney about INS v. Chadha, which held legislative vetoes unconstitutional. But if Congress fails to pass such a law, President Romney would issue an executive order forbidding agencies from putting their major regulations into effect until Congress specifically approves them. When one thinks about the various major rules that Romney has complained about – for instance, EPA’s proposed new ozone ambient air quality standard and various Dodd-Frank regulations – it is clear that his executive order could not legally prohibit those regulations from going into effect.

He also would seek to have Congress amend the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act to assure that costs are taken into account and that, when regulations are really necessary because of “compelling human health reasons,” industry is given “a reasonable period of time” (i.e., “a significant window”) to come into compliance. Of course, industry is already provided lead-time to come into compliance, so the goal here must be an even greater lead-time, so that corporate interests are not sacrificed at the altar of human health.

Finally, there is tort reform. While giving a nod to federalism, President Romney would “pursue reforms . . . in our court system” to prevent “excessive damage awards,” limit “unwarranted” class-action lawsuits, and empower judges to sanction lawyers more easily who bring “frivolous” claims.

In other words, he proposes standard political scapegoating, which is not a meaningful program for regulatory reform. Of course, one can glean the essence. Romney does not like tort lawyers or government regulation that restricts corporate interests. That’s nothing new for Republican candidates, but in reading between the lines, one might actually discern in Romney a hostility toward regulations and sympathy for corporate interests that surpass even that of Ronald Reagan. For example, even when there are “compelling human health reasons” for a regulation, Romney thinks industry should be allowed “a significant window” to change its behavior. Moreover, Romney does not think that regulatory benefits are necessarily justified even when they equal or exceed regulatory costs. In his view, regulatory costs are like taxes, and taxes are always to be minimized or avoided.
More....


The beauty of willard is that he has a complete opposite set of policies that he can trot out on a moments notice. There isn't an issue or opinion that one way or another he doesn't complete agree with. Just ask him.




subrob1967 -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 12:11:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Let me ask you this, would you consider Sean Hannity an expert?

He's been peer reviewed, published, and holds at least one degree. And he's won multiple awards in his field... Is he a credible expert?

Hannity holds no earned degrees.

But I would concede he is an expert in his field, that being being a lying loudmouth.



Hannity has an honorary degree, just like Obama[:-]




Hillwilliam -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 12:24:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Let me ask you this, would you consider Sean Hannity an expert?

He's been peer reviewed, published, and holds at least one degree. And he's won multiple awards in his field... Is he a credible expert?

Hannity holds no earned degrees.

But I would concede he is an expert in his field, that being being a lying loudmouth.



Hannity has an honorary degree, just like Obama[:-]

Come on man, you're being deliberately obtuse again. You're better than that.




subrob1967 -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 3:02:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Come on man, you're being deliberately obtuse again. You're better than that.


No I was taking a Romneyesque shot at the President.

Now to get back to Funk, how do you know he didn't cherry pick the data he's presented due to his bias? Like I said, for every point Funk makes, there's a conservative regulatory "expert" with a counterpoint... How do we know who's telling the truth? And do you honestly believe that our biases aren't going to influence which side we believe?

One only has to Google Funk and see where his political beliefs lie, why is it so hard to believe that he may just be bashing Romney due to his bias? How the fuck does he even know what Romney plans to do to the regulations strangling business?

Aren't there topics about Romney not telling anyone what his "plan" is? Either we know, or we don't know, you can't have it both ways here... If you know, I'd appreciate you filling the rest of us in.

Bottom line here is Funk isn't Romney or Ryan... He offered an opinion, it's no more valid than yours, mine, or Ken's.




mnottertail -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 3:11:20 PM)

Lets see come of those conservative counterpoints regarding Funks data, (by his peers) cuz otherwise its sort of a pud pounding event.




DomKen -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 3:23:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Let me ask you this, would you consider Sean Hannity an expert?

He's been peer reviewed, published, and holds at least one degree. And he's won multiple awards in his field... Is he a credible expert?

Hannity holds no earned degrees.

But I would concede he is an expert in his field, that being being a lying loudmouth.



Hannity has an honorary degree, just like Obama[:-]

The difference is the President actually earned several degrees as well. Hannity has never managed to even finish a bachelors.




Musicmystery -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/28/2012 3:56:44 PM)

quote:

BFD Obama is supposed to be a constitutional scholar too... That and $5 will buy him a cuppa at any Starbucks.


Actually it got him to the White House.




SternSkipper -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/29/2012 10:25:48 AM)

Ain't it CRAZY Muse? The current President, won partly on his real qualifications. The guy who wants to beat him does interviews suggesting a pact which AVOIDS allowing his qualifications and actual record as a businessman (like it's 'deeply personal' and throwing his family under the bus to try and make it stick) in interviews on National TV.

And it's a fucking RIOT he invokes Starbucks in so much as Bain and a closely associated VC Company called Weston Presidio CREATED the $5 cup of coffee. My son's godfather is a principal's brother. You know how many times I have heard "Nobody ever made $3 on a cup of coffee before me" in regard to their melding of coffee connection with Starbucks, creating the national brand out of two regional. Price-gouging at it's best.
What a great accomplishment unaffordable coffee.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Regulatory Expert Calls Mitt Romney's Ploicies For What They Really Are (8/29/2012 2:55:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Yeah, ole Willie Funk is a credible source[8|]

This source is about as credible as Koz, or DU


Well said.




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