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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/29/2012 6:36:56 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yes it does actually. Public education does a great job of educating all children despite huge obstacles.



It DOES!, if you consider mediocre a great job.

Oh that's right, the President doesn't believe that America should be the best...

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/29/2012 8:57:09 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yes it does actually. Public education does a great job of educating all children despite huge obstacles.



It DOES!, if you consider mediocre a great job.

Oh that's right, the President doesn't believe that America should be the best...

Actually the President does believe the US should be better educated. The problem lies in other places.

For instance it is impossible to have a high quality science education when we're still fighting over whether to teach evolutionary theory in schools.

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/29/2012 11:13:04 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yes it does actually. Public education does a great job of educating all children despite huge obstacles.



It DOES!, if you consider mediocre a great job.

Oh that's right, the President doesn't believe that America should be the best...

Actually the President does believe the US should be better educated. The problem lies in other places.

For instance it is impossible to have a high quality science education when we're still fighting over whether to teach evolutionary theory in schools.


Yeah them religious professors are a real problem at CalTech and MIT

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 3:19:31 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yes it does actually. Public education does a great job of educating all children despite huge obstacles.



It DOES!, if you consider mediocre a great job.

Oh that's right, the President doesn't believe that America should be the best...

Actually the President does believe the US should be better educated. The problem lies in other places.

For instance it is impossible to have a high quality science education when we're still fighting over whether to teach evolutionary theory in schools.


Yeah them religious professors are a real problem at CalTech and MIT



Yes, so may people get their BASIC science education at CalTech and MIT....

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 3:21:07 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:


Yes, so may people get their BASIC science education at CalTech and MIT....


When did CalTech and MIT become public schools?

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 3:31:25 AM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		Still private last I checked....

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 5:33:17 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Home schooling is mostly a conservative christian thing to avoid evolution and sex education. I'm not really sure which would come out as the top reason if you could get honest answers out of those involved.


My child's health and well being were our motivators. The school could not find his inhaler for his asthma (it was "misfiled"). Since the ER trip revealed a blood O2 sat in the 70's, yet refused to allow him to carry his own, and didnt bother to call anyone on his medical call sheet (6 people who all had inhalers in their possession for just this problem), we yanked him out of public school and home schooled him..... but we still used the local school's program.

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 6:11:08 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Restyles
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682
The Republicans over a 100 years ago are not the same Republican Party of today.This is certainly no party of Lincoln


And the Dems are no party of Kennedy, whats your point?


The point is that liberals and conservatives have since switched parties so giving the current conservatives credit for the actions of the previous liberals isn't terribly intellectually honest.

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 6:54:43 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yes it does actually. Public education does a great job of educating all children despite huge obstacles.



It DOES!, if you consider mediocre a great job.

Oh that's right, the President doesn't believe that America should be the best...

Actually the President does believe the US should be better educated. The problem lies in other places.

For instance it is impossible to have a high quality science education when we're still fighting over whether to teach evolutionary theory in schools.


Yeah them religious professors are a real problem at CalTech and MIT

Actually those religious board of ed members all over the country are a real problem because they prevent the students in their schools from getting the basic science education needed to excel at places like CalTech and MIT (which are both private institutions BTW).

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 9:10:12 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
Yes, so may people get their BASIC science education at CalTech and MIT....


Aren't they the best America has to offer? Yet we're ranked 14...14th

Ken can make all the excuses he wants, but the fact is, progressives have been in charge of the education of America for decades, and instead of fixing the problems, all they've done is throw more money at the problem, and hand control over to the teacher's unions.

And all we've gotten in return is a poorly educated public, and piss poor rating compared to other first world nations.

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 9:15:36 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Yeah, the cut education funding whenever and however possible and no child left behind and pushing intelligent design and blowing out collective rights and so forth has certainly helped us achive mediocrity in the most efficient way. 

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 10:14:13 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
Yes, so may people get their BASIC science education at CalTech and MIT....


Aren't they the best America has to offer? Yet we're ranked 14...14th

Ken can make all the excuses he wants, but the fact is, progressives have been in charge of the education of America for decades, and instead of fixing the problems, all they've done is throw more money at the problem, and hand control over to the teacher's unions.

And all we've gotten in return is a poorly educated public, and piss poor rating compared to other first world nations.

Progressives in charge of education? What a pile of horseshit. Local school boards around this country have been dominated by social conservatives (i.e. the christian right) for decades. That's how we got nonsense like abstinence only sex ed.

We have a poorly educated public because that is what is best for the conservative scum behind those school boards.

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 11:17:25 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
We have a poorly educated public because that is what is best for the conservative scum behind those school boards.


Explain the school ratings for schools in predominantly democrat districts Ken, if it's all local religious nutters, why the fuck do Dem controlled school districts score lowest in school rankings?

[http://edudemic.com/2010/04/failing-grades-the-25-worst-performing-public-schools-in-the-u-s-a/]The proof is in the pudding, Kenny[/link]





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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 11:58:59 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Oh, dont run away there we are still working on facts vs teabaggisms on the last one. 

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 12:36:34 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
We have a poorly educated public because that is what is best for the conservative scum behind those school boards.


Explain the school ratings for schools in predominantly democrat districts Ken, if it's all local religious nutters, why the fuck do Dem controlled school districts score lowest in school rankings?

[http://edudemic.com/2010/04/failing-grades-the-25-worst-performing-public-schools-in-the-u-s-a/]The proof is in the pudding, Kenny[/link]

Did you actually look at that list?
10 were in definitely Democratic areas and the rest were mostly in South Carolina. Without being able to see the formula used to determine this list I'll just remind you that inner city schools have been suffering from problems related to white flight for the past 50 years.

As a matter of fact I'll bet good money those underperforming schools in SC are majority black schools in counties with white majorities who routinely vote down more money for those schools.

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 12:56:05 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
We have a poorly educated public because that is what is best for the conservative scum behind those school boards.


Explain the school ratings for schools in predominantly democrat districts Ken, if it's all local religious nutters, why the fuck do Dem controlled school districts score lowest in school rankings?

[http://edudemic.com/2010/04/failing-grades-the-25-worst-performing-public-schools-in-the-u-s-a/]The proof is in the pudding, Kenny[/link]





Rob, you don't seem to know how schools work so I'll fill you in.
Textbooks and curricula are determined at the state level, not local. If the state decides to use such and such books and that a science class has to be taught from the New Testament, that's how it will be done.
I'm not certain but I think charter schools have some leeway there. The interesting thing about your list is that the 2 worst and several of the others on your list are charter schools. these operate under a whole different rule. Dubya was particularly enamoured of charter Schools.
Texas is particularly important for text books as they are a large market and the TX dept of education dictates how the textbooks for a large percentage of the US are written.
A huge proportion of the US believes that the world is only about 6000 years old and that evolution is a fantasy. Maybe that's why Cal Tech and MIT are so full of foreign students.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 8/30/2012 1:02:31 PM >

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 7:20:00 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Rob, you don't seem to know how schools work so I'll fill you in.

Frankly you don't seem to know how schools work, I think you should get yourself some filling in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Textbooks and curricula are determined at the state level, not local. If the state decides to use such and such books and that a science class has to be taught from the New Testament, that's how it will be done.

What you're talking about here is true for some states and completely false for others.

For instance in my state not only is the curriculum determined at the local level we even have a new law that lets parents change it to suit their beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/new-hampshire-legislature-curriculum-objection-law_n_1184476.html
The state House voted 255-112 and Senate 17-5 to enact H.B. 542, which will allow parents to request an alternative school curriculum for any subject to which they register an objection...

"For example, under this bill, parents could object to a teacher's plan to: teach the history of France or the history of the civil or women's rights movements," Lynch wrote in his veto message. "Under this bill, a parent could find 'objectionable' how a teacher instructs on the basics of algebra. In each of those cases, the school district would have to develop an alternative educational plan for the student. Even though the law requires the parents to pay the cost of alternative, the school district will still have to bear the burden of helping develop and approve the alternative. Classrooms will be disrupted by students coming and going, and lacking shared knowledge."


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Texas is particularly important for text books as they are a large market and the TX dept of education dictates how the textbooks for a large percentage of the US are written.

Modern technology is progressively mitigating the influence that the full frontal lobotomies on the Texas Board of Education have on the rest of our textbooks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
A huge proportion of the US believes that the world is only about 6000 years old and that evolution is a fantasy. Maybe that's why Cal Tech and MIT are so full of foreign students.

Yeah, parents and communities teaching children not to value knowledge and the pursuit of knowledge for a variety of reasons is something that's seriously damaging our country.

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RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 9:45:22 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

Yeah, parents and communities teaching children not to value knowledge and the pursuit of knowledge for a variety of reasons is something that's seriously damaging our country.


There is certainly an anti-intellectualism in this country and it comes mostly from the right, with their claims that anybody who is well educated is liberal or an elitist.

Not all liberals are well educated and not all educated people are liberals. Bush and Romney both attended ivy league colleges while McCain attended the Naval Academy. (Though Bush was a "C" student, so he didn't do all that well in college).

We need a new Renaissance. A time where we pursue education and knowledge for the sake of knowledge, not for career or the next job, but simply to know stuff, to understand the world around us. Sadly, I fear both parties are playing a role that will lead us into a new Dark Ages.





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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/30/2012 10:52:34 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Rob, you don't seem to know how schools work so I'll fill you in.

Frankly you don't seem to know how schools work, I think you should get yourself some filling in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Textbooks and curricula are determined at the state level, not local. If the state decides to use such and such books and that a science class has to be taught from the New Testament, that's how it will be done.

What you're talking about here is true for some states and completely false for others.

For instance in my state not only is the curriculum determined at the local level we even have a new law that lets parents change it to suit their beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/new-hampshire-legislature-curriculum-objection-law_n_1184476.html
The state House voted 255-112 and Senate 17-5 to enact H.B. 542, which will allow parents to request an alternative school curriculum for any subject to which they register an objection...

"For example, under this bill, parents could object to a teacher's plan to: teach the history of France or the history of the civil or women's rights movements," Lynch wrote in his veto message. "Under this bill, a parent could find 'objectionable' how a teacher instructs on the basics of algebra. In each of those cases, the school district would have to develop an alternative educational plan for the student. Even though the law requires the parents to pay the cost of alternative, the school district will still have to bear the burden of helping develop and approve the alternative. Classrooms will be disrupted by students coming and going, and lacking shared knowledge."


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Texas is particularly important for text books as they are a large market and the TX dept of education dictates how the textbooks for a large percentage of the US are written.

Modern technology is progressively mitigating the influence that the full frontal lobotomies on the Texas Board of Education have on the rest of our textbooks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
A huge proportion of the US believes that the world is only about 6000 years old and that evolution is a fantasy. Maybe that's why Cal Tech and MIT are so full of foreign students.

Yeah, parents and communities teaching children not to value knowledge and the pursuit of knowledge for a variety of reasons is something that's seriously damaging our country.

Sounds like its even worse than I feared.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Neal Boortz explains why the Republican Party hates... - 8/31/2012 10:57:30 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The Right turned against public education and began the home schooling movement when the Supremes banned prayer in the Public schools.

Actually it has a lot more to do with Brown v Board. Areas without significant minorit populations do not have cons calling for vouchers and 'school choice.'


Brown v Board was issued in 1954. But I think you are mostly right as I recall it. Busing became a big issue in the 1970s. That was an impetus for the formation of many a fly-by-night private school. A big motivator today for home schooling I suspect is anti-Darwinism.


I think both are still factors, and it does piss me off that people want the government to pay for either thing through vouchers. I'm for charter schools in some circumstances, but definitely not if they're only for certain kinds of people or if they're teaching religious crap instead of science.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 40
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