RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (Full Version)

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MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 6:13:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw

"as much bigotry and bias in the BDSM world as you will ever find in the vanilla world"

This is because we are still individuals with our own standards and believes. Simply because we participate in the BDSM lifestyle doesn't mean we loose our sense of self.


Quite correct, but having a sense of self and your own beliefs is never an excuse to denigrate people on a personal level, something that seems to happen a little too often on threads like this one.

Zara




FinDommeXtina -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 6:37:10 AM)

As I continue reading through this post the thing I notice most is that the true resentment is not towards FinDoms but towards anyone who uses the exchange of money for sex appeal. This is fair, but remind yourself how we all pay for floggers, boots, ropes. I am sure none of us have flogger trees in our back yard. Not to mention all of the money we have wasted on porn videos! Sheesh this is a difficult subject but worthwhile to hear everyone's opinions. Money - we can't hide from it. Nothing is free unless you plan to do bdsm naked in a cardboard box with no toys. And then again someone had to buy whatever was in the box in the first place. There is no escape.




TheLilSquaw -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 6:59:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK

Quite correct, but having a sense of self and your own beliefs is never an excuse to denigrate people on a personal level, something that seems to happen a little too often on threads like this one.

Zara


In a sense I don't agree Zara.
I am going to us pedaphilla as an example.
I consider myself EXTREMELY open minded. However, damn skippy if I know someone is a pedo I am going to denigrate and attack them on personal level. I am going to be vocal. I am going to scream my feelings about them and their actions from the highest mountain with a bull horn.

Yes, I know it's an extreme comparison but it's the same thing.

No, I don't like when I'm called a prostitute or worse because I am a proswitch, fetish model or a findomme. However, I understand all to well that as human beings we are judgmental and have our own set of "moral" standards. So I understand it. Plus just because someone calls me something doesn't make it negative. Heck, I've meet people who thought calling me a squaw was an insult. It's not! I am a one. Lol Words only have the power that WE give them.

I will NEVER assume just because someone is involved in the BDSM lifestyle that they are on the same moral, political or religious ground as i am. That is a wild assumption.

ETA: Hell people can't even agree on what defines a slave or sub or what constitutes safe or sane.So do you really think that "mass majority" are going to feel the same about subjects as personal as this?

quote:

FinDommeXtina

Not to mention all of the money we have wasted on porn videos!


Lol You HAD to go there!





MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 7:48:24 AM)

Squaw

I'm sorry, but that is not an extreme comparison, it is a totally wrong comparison.

We are discussing acts financial or otherwise between consenting adults, as such. Yes we all have our no go areas, in my case some of them surprisingly tame, but ultimately they are my beliefs and I have no God given right to criticise others who practice them.

Paedophilia is an illegal practice throughout the civilised world, it has no place in either the vanilla or BDSM world any more then murder does on that I think we are all in agreement.

Zara




TheLilSquaw -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 7:52:59 AM)

Zara,

What we do has been illegal in the past and some of those laws are still on the books.
So to say simply because one is illegal when other isn't is the reason they are not the same thing seems strange to me.

I will also ask, who says YOU or I have no god given right to criticize people, their actions, believes or behavior?





MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 8:26:10 AM)

Squaw

We can, but where does that take us ? Just another bunch of people trying to pigeon hole others into neat little boxes to suit their own personal tastes and sense of morality.

In my own case I am fully supportive of the freedom of speech, fully supportive of the right for others to hold opinions that are different to mine and fully supportive of consenting adults to practice whatever acts with each other that they see fit as long as it does NOT break the law or intrude on the rights of others.

What I DON'T support is the right of others to criticise, denigrate or abuse an individual or group that remain within those boundaries and do no harm to anyone else.

If we cannot respect the rights of others within the BDSM scene, then we truly are not an inclusive community. We ultimately end up no better then the redneck who beats someone up because they look 'different'

Zara




tazzygirl -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 8:35:54 AM)

quote:

I consider myself EXTREMELY open minded. However, damn skippy if I know someone is a pedo I am going to denigrate and attack them on personal level. I am going to be vocal. I am going to scream my feelings about them and their actions from the highest mountain with a bull horn.


This, for me, is totally out of context. Not only is this illegal, but there is no ability to consent. At least with most fetishes, two, or more, people consent to the actions. As long as there is consent between legal, mentally competent adults, I dont denigrate people for doing what they do.

Your example isnt a case of adults making a conscious decision to have one tribute the other, or pay for time, to piss on the other, or the thousands of other things we, as adults, consent too each and every day as part of our relationships.




FinDommeXtina -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 9:00:25 AM)

Bottomline there is an exchange of consensual power. I think that pretty much sums it up.

This topic has turned more into a morality question or a comparison of kinks. Yes, I get it but....
If certain fetishes and kinks could be ultimately comparable, then there wouldn't be such an specific market for them individually.

If we want to talk comparisons of FinDom, why not use the regular ole rap3 fantasy? I'm putting the 3 because I am not sure if that word is allowed or not. Forgive me, I am still very new here.

Whether it's the fantasy played out as being a helpless victim in a dark alley way or submitting your wallet over to a beautiful girl becase you think she is deserving of it (AKA wallet rap3).

I guess what I am trying to say is.. as long as there is a consensual power exchange, then yes.. it is BDSM.

B is for BONDAGE! What does Bondage mean?
(according to dictionary.com)
1. slavery or involuntary servitude; serfdom.
2. the state of being bound by or subjected to some external power or control.
3. the state or practice of being physically restrained, as by being tied up, chained, or put in handcuffs, for sexual gratification.

Let us notice how being physically bound is third on the list.
Can you be financial slave? Yes. Just look at the bills in your mailbox every month for gas, power, water, etc.

D is for DISCIPLINE! What does Discipline mean?
(according to dictionary.com)
1. training to act in accordance with rules; drill: military discipline.
2. activity, exercise, or a regimen that develops or improves a skill; training: A daily stint at the typewriter is excellent discipline for a writer.
3. punishment inflicted by way of correction and training.

Several FinDoms put their slaves through rigorous financial reform. They help their pets find the necessities and weed out lucrative spending that otherwise is not benefiting them.
Also many FinDoms help slaves set aside a reasonable amount of money to then spend on the slave themselves, with guidance and direction to ultimately reach the slaves (sexual) satisfaction. Toys, clothes, etc.

S is for SADISM! What is Sadism?
(according to dictionary.com)
1. Psychiatry. the condition in which sexual gratification depends on causing pain or degradation to others. Compare masochism.
2. any enjoyment in being cruel.
3. extreme cruelty.

For Dominants, there is an exchange of consensual power here. Are Dominants Sadist when it comes to other areas of BDSM? Do most Dominants push their slaves limits with that extra spanking that left a bruise? Is Their ego not inflated to see their subs squirming a bit? In most cases, financial slaves perfer cruel ruthless Dominants. It just goes hand in hand. Why? I don't know. Just does Why does peanut butter taste good with jelly? I don't know. It just does.

M is for MASOCHISM! What is Masochism?
(according to dictionary.com)
1. Psychiatry. the condition in which sexual gratification depends on suffering physical pain or humiliation.
2. gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others, especially the tendency to seek this form of gratification.
3. the act of turning one's destructive tendencies inward or upon oneself.

What better definition than to replace Masochist with Financial Slave?
Take for instance John Smith who is going through a nasty divorce to Jane Smith. Jane cheated on John, racked up his credit card bills and still wants 50% if not ALL of what John has left. Instead of John paying his horrible ex wife off, what if John could find a way to get rid of all his money to more deserving woman who does not use smoke and mirrors regarding what she is all about?
John can't buy a hummer. He can't buy a house. He can't (err.. well maybe) hide his money in off shores accounts. His wife will surely want half of that too! What John CAN do is spend all his money on a pretty young girl on the internet and stick it to his bitch of an ex wife. Hey - true story.

What do you think?




AllisonWilder -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 9:21:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FinDommeXtina


What better definition than to replace Masochist with Financial Slave?
Take for instance John Smith who is going through a nasty divorce to Jane Smith. Jane cheated on John, racked up his credit card bills and still wants 50% if not ALL of what John has left. Instead of John paying his horrible ex wife off, what if John could find a way to get rid of all his money to more deserving woman who does not use smoke and mirrors regarding what she is all about?
John can't buy a hummer. He can't buy a house. He can't (err.. well maybe) hide his money in off shores accounts. His wife will surely want half of that too! What John CAN do is spend all his money on a pretty young girl on the internet and stick it to his bitch of an ex wife. Hey - true story.

What do you think?


True story or not, if all he wanted to do was spend his money on a pretty girl on the internet he wouldn't have much of a findom fetish, in my opinion. If anything he'd be a sugar daddy and that's not nearly the same as a financial sub.




Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 9:48:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nakhla

Honestly, the legal conception of prostitution always struck me as terribly reductive ( though understandable given that insertive sex is proportionally much riskier ), and on a strictly personal level, I would find BDSM bottoming to someone for money far more personal/invasive than simply having sex with them for money.

( In either case, all of them are legitimate to me. As it happens so is prostitution, but then the law and me don't see eye to eye on that in most locales. )



Personally, I think it's rather silly that prostitution is illegal. It's not called "the world's oldest profession" for nothing. As long as men lust for sex, and women have sexy bodies, prostitution will exist. The fight against it is just an hopeless as the war on drugs. Moreover, I guess I'm a bit libertarian in my views that it's not the government's job to protect adults from themselves. If a woman wants to sell her body, why shouldn't she be able to? But we digress.

IMO, the findoms who cause people the most grief are the scammers and the pretty princesses. Both ask for money, and give little or nothing in return. No attention. No cam sessions. No face-to-face interaction. And certainly no sex. With that being the case, I have a difficult time understanding how someone can call that prostitution.

If the case were to go to court, this is what it would probably sound like:

Judge: So you're charging the defendant with prostitution because she took your money.

Finsub: Yes.

Judge: Once you paid her, did she say that the money was for sexual services?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Did she give you a blowjob, hand job, or sexual intercourse?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Did she give you sex of any type?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Then what did you get for your money?

Finsub: Nothing.

Judge: Then you're not charging her with prostitution, you're charging her with robbery. Is that correct?

Finsub: Ummmm, I guess.

Judge: Okay, did she hold you at gunpoint and force you to give her the money?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Then why did you give her the money?

Finsub: Because I wanted to.

Judge: And what did you expect to receive in return?

Finsub: Nothing.

Judge: Let me get this straight. You gave her money, and you expected to get nothing in return. And you got exactly what you expected.

Finsub: Yeah, that's right.

Judge: That's neither prostitution nor robbery. In reality, you gave her a gift. There is no law against giving or receiving gifts. Case dismissed.




FinDommeXtina -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 9:49:20 AM)

I guess John Smith needs more of a character biography. [;)]

Point is, without knowing him that's not really a fair assement to make. Although that particular action may fall under Sugar Daddy, his whole life is not posted here either.




Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 9:49:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllisonWilder

23 pages of debate has only proven one thing and that's that there will always be findommes and there will always be people that hate them.



Sadly, I think you're probably correct. [&o]




FinDommeXtina -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 9:50:32 AM)

Rochsub lol :)




Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 10:02:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I consider myself EXTREMELY open minded. However, damn skippy if I know someone is a pedo I am going to denigrate and attack them on personal level. I am going to be vocal. I am going to scream my feelings about them and their actions from the highest mountain with a bull horn.


This, for me, is totally out of context. Not only is this illegal, but there is no ability to consent. At least with most fetishes, two, or more, people consent to the actions. As long as there is consent between legal, mentally competent adults, I dont denigrate people for doing what they do.

Your example isnt a case of adults making a conscious decision to have one tribute the other, or pay for time, to piss on the other, or the thousands of other things we, as adults, consent too each and every day as part of our relationships.


I agree with this. Using pedophiles as an example is not analogous, and takes the discussion in a completely different (and erroneous) direction. So I'm going to ask us to drop the pedophile example. It tends to derail discussions just like bringing up rape does.

Whether we like findoms or not, there is no coercion involved. The findom and finsub both consent to their transaction. They're both adults. Let's not forget that.




CarolBC -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 11:02:31 AM)

fast reply

@MissImmortalPain:

Wow... I get to be the one to sign the permission slip? By all means, you have my permission to permit Master to permit you to fork over those pics...providing there's no copyright that would be used without permission.




SacredDepravity -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 11:13:37 AM)

I had to scurry over here since Carol posted. Hi, Carol!

As you were.

SD




JeffBC -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 11:22:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarolBC
Wow... I get to be the one to sign the permission slip? By all means, you have my permission to permit Master to permit you to fork over those pics...providing there's no copyright that would be used without permission.

*blinks*

OK, reading that I can't help but feel like I'm looking at the old shell game and I've lost track of which cup the authority ball is under. It might well have fallen onto the floor with that one :)




MAINEiacMISTRESS -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 11:34:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nakhla

Honestly, the legal conception of prostitution always struck me as terribly reductive ( though understandable given that insertive sex is proportionally much riskier ), and on a strictly personal level, I would find BDSM bottoming to someone for money far more personal/invasive than simply having sex with them for money.

( In either case, all of them are legitimate to me. As it happens so is prostitution, but then the law and me don't see eye to eye on that in most locales. )



Personally, I think it's rather silly that prostitution is illegal. It's not called "the world's oldest profession" for nothing. As long as men lust for sex, and women have sexy bodies, prostitution will exist. The fight against it is just an hopeless as the war on drugs. Moreover, I guess I'm a bit libertarian in my views that it's not the government's job to protect adults from themselves. If a woman wants to sell her body, why shouldn't she be able to? But we digress.

IMO, the findoms who cause people the most grief are the scammers and the pretty princesses. Both ask for money, and give little or nothing in return. No attention. No cam sessions. No face-to-face interaction. And certainly no sex. With that being the case, I have a difficult time understanding how someone can call that prostitution.

If the case were to go to court, this is what it would probably sound like:

Judge: So you're charging the defendant with prostitution because she took your money.

Finsub: Yes.

Judge: Once you paid her, did she say that the money was for sexual services?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Did she give you a blowjob, hand job, or sexual intercourse?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Did she give you sex of any type?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Then what did you get for your money?

Finsub: Nothing.

Judge: Then you're not charging her with prostitution, you're charging her with robbery. Is that correct?

Finsub: Ummmm, I guess.

Judge: Okay, did she hold you at gunpoint and force you to give her the money?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Then why did you give her the money?

Finsub: Because I wanted to.

Judge: And what did you expect to receive in return?

Finsub: Nothing.

Judge: Let me get this straight. You gave her money, and you expected to get nothing in return. And you got exactly what you expected.

Finsub: Yeah, that's right.

Judge: That's neither prostitution nor robbery. In reality, you gave her a gift. There is no law against giving or receiving gifts. Case dismissed.


*blows coffee out of nose*
Too funny...but yes, VERY TRUE.
No one is REALLY being a victim here. If the finsub didn't find some "findomme" to throw his money at, he'd be throwing it at strippers (not getting anything in return, not even CONTACT info) or gambling it, or finding some other way to blow it away with nothing in return.
My only REAL objection to findommes is to the ones who aren't really finDOMMES ("respectable" FinDommes use imagination & skill to make it at least ENTERTAINING for the finsub)...but many are just teens or very young "girls" still living with her parents who don't want to become adults and GET JOBS so instead they whine and beg for someone to give them money (gimme! gimme!).

In other words, they are not INDEPENDENT, therefore they are nothing different than "KEPT WOMEN", which has NOTHING at all to do with being a DOMINANT.

I have no problem with DOMINANT, INDEPENDENT, SELF-RELIANT Women who are providing an outlet for those with this urge/fetish.

--MM




littlewonder -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 11:37:34 AM)

Even so, so what? Those young girls are not forcing those men to give them money. Yeah, they're young and pretty and the men are horny, desperate men who only see as far as their cock, but that's their issue, not her's. They are not being forced to give those young girls their money. They're just slaves to their cocks.




ccc3333 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/28/2012 12:10:10 PM)

agreee!
quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nakhla

Honestly, the legal conception of prostitution always struck me as terribly reductive ( though understandable given that insertive sex is proportionally much riskier ), and on a strictly personal level, I would find BDSM bottoming to someone for money far more personal/invasive than simply having sex with them for money.

( In either case, all of them are legitimate to me. As it happens so is prostitution, but then the law and me don't see eye to eye on that in most locales. )



Personally, I think it's rather silly that prostitution is illegal. It's not called "the world's oldest profession" for nothing. As long as men lust for sex, and women have sexy bodies, prostitution will exist. The fight against it is just an hopeless as the war on drugs. Moreover, I guess I'm a bit libertarian in my views that it's not the government's job to protect adults from themselves. If a woman wants to sell her body, why shouldn't she be able to? But we digress.

IMO, the findoms who cause people the most grief are the scammers and the pretty princesses. Both ask for money, and give little or nothing in return. No attention. No cam sessions. No face-to-face interaction. And certainly no sex. With that being the case, I have a difficult time understanding how someone can call that prostitution.

If the case were to go to court, this is what it would probably sound like:

Judge: So you're charging the defendant with prostitution because she took your money.

Finsub: Yes.

Judge: Once you paid her, did she say that the money was for sexual services?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Did she give you a blowjob, hand job, or sexual intercourse?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Did she give you sex of any type?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Then what did you get for your money?

Finsub: Nothing.

Judge: Then you're not charging her with prostitution, you're charging her with robbery. Is that correct?

Finsub: Ummmm, I guess.

Judge: Okay, did she hold you at gunpoint and force you to give her the money?

Finsub: No.

Judge: Then why did you give her the money?

Finsub: Because I wanted to.

Judge: And what did you expect to receive in return?

Finsub: Nothing.

Judge: Let me get this straight. You gave her money, and you expected to get nothing in return. And you got exactly what you expected.

Finsub: Yeah, that's right.

Judge: That's neither prostitution nor robbery. In reality, you gave her a gift. There is no law against giving or receiving gifts. Case dismissed.


*blows coffee out of nose*
Too funny...but yes, VERY TRUE.
No one is REALLY being a victim here. If the finsub didn't find some "findomme" to throw his money at, he'd be throwing it at strippers (not getting anything in return, not even CONTACT info) or gambling it, or finding some other way to blow it away with nothing in return.
My only REAL objection to findommes is to the ones who aren't really finDOMMES ("respectable" FinDommes use imagination & skill to make it at least ENTERTAINING for the finsub)...but many are just teens or very young "girls" still living with her parents who don't want to become adults and GET JOBS so instead they whine and beg for someone to give them money (gimme! gimme!).

In other words, they are not INDEPENDENT, therefore they are nothing different than "KEPT WOMEN", which has NOTHING at all to do with being a DOMINANT.

I have no problem with DOMINANT, INDEPENDENT, SELF-RELIANT Women who are providing an outlet for those with this urge/fetish.

--MM






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