Reaffirming our dynamic

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JeffBC -> Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 11:00:57 AM)
This thread is a spin-off from a much more humorous one I made in "off topic" Here's the reader's digest version without the humorous spin and cleaned of communication errors between Carol and I. This part had some real meat to it so I thought I'd bring it out into the regular forums. Carol and I have both been very busy recently. There's just been a lot of life stuff going on. Our dynamic has settled into a quiet stable state that we both agree is "too quiet" now that we can lift our heads out of the weeds a bit. So I need to "reaffirm our dynamic". This, of course, is a fairly normal thing in any long-term relationship. None of it is troubling us. But it is an interesting problem. For us, even at our most relaxed points in our dynamic, obedience is a given. So we don't need to reinforce our dynamic in that regard. I think we both need to mentally "feel" it more. By "it" what I mean is that sense of "property" and "ownership". Again, the basics of a D/s dynamic are inescapable and neither one of us would even know how to "feel" anything in particular about my leading and her following. The "unnatural" bolt-on to our marriage has been the ownership gig and to a lesser extent, the mental control. Complicating the ownership angle somewhat is that Carol is very much an experiential person. She doesn't deal in concepts very well and ownership, by it's very nature, is a conceptual thing. So I can't directly address that with her because to her it's completely invisible. So I need to look at myself and decide what makes me feel like I own her then work those things. For her really, she doesn't care one wit about slavery or ownership or BDSM really. She cares about making me as happy as she can. So... I have some thoughts myself but before I lay them out I'd love to hear the many and varied viewpoints you folks might bring to the table.

SacredDepravity -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 11:46:13 AM)
Well, when I was feeling disconnected or wanted to deny who and what I was, there was something very simple that would engage me mentally before anything else. I really believe it was done intentionally, but could have been a simple decision that the issue didn't matter enough to impose a directive. Something like, "Fix whatever you want for dinner." "We can go to any restaurant you'd like." "We can do whatever you want this weekend." She isn't going to pick anything she knows you hate. Expand it from there. "We could go there, but i know you like (fill in the blank), so we could go there. Of course I really like (fill in another blank). " She will pick the one you said you really like. She won't even think about it in the moment. She WILL think about it later. Of course, feel free to straight out ask her, "Now why did you make THAT decision?" You are removing your dominance to a degree. You are giving her choice, but she doesn't want it. This is empirical proof. Her heart already knows as does yours. Let her spontaneously serve you and it paves the way for you to serve her with your dominance as if it were brand new again. Of course you could just grab that collar, set her on her knees and look her in the eyes with a firm, "MINE"... SD

JeffBC -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 11:52:57 AM)
quote: Original: Kana (from the other thread) OK. Now it's time to be serious. You ain't alone here. Our dynamic is always shifting. Sometimes it's internal stuff with one or both of us. Often, external stuff crashes in and in dealing with the disaster or crisis or whatever, the wheels kinda slip off the tracks, the motors aren't firing on all cylinders and next thing ya know, we both aren't too happy. So we sit down, or more properly, I sit and she kneels, and discuss it. Generally during these discussions the rules are she can say anything with no fear of reciprocity. I want open honest discussion. It's also understood that the final decision is mine and mine alone. And we've had these on big things, ideas that have shifted our entire relationship. Example-a few years back she was going through a whole lotta life changes and just couldn't take hard pain play. It started slow and then crept in, growing as it went until it was affecting what we did together. At which point we talked. And the result was that we shifted to a much more mental/emotional/spiritual groove of BDSM than physical. I shifted from pure physical sadism to hard mind fucks,tightened my grip some and established stronger control of some non-BDSm areas of her life that she had hitherto enjoyed autonomy in, and, most of all, really started doing heavy D/S. We do much more extensive depersonalization, owner/property, Master/meat sort of stuff than we ever did. My controls have been much tighter, I give less latitude than I did a few years ago. Accountability levels and expectations have gone up. We do the "it" thing a whole lot more often. She spends more time bound now, also gagged, and wears her collar a whole lot more. All sorts of little things-all arranged to keep that level of control in place, that bubble of slavery that travels with her wherever she goes...because in the end servitude is a mental thing far more than physical. I found new ways to get in her head. I've found new fears and also new desires. I've found ways to make our relationship immensely stronger and for the two of us to entwine deeper around each other. All of which started with that one conversation. So yeah, relationships are living things. They are born, they blossom, they bloom, and they go through seasons of triumph and tragedy, ebb and flow, and need room to grow organically in response to the shifting dynamics. And that's a good thing. A wise man told me long ago, "The only constant in life is change."

LaTigresse -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 11:55:48 AM)
As for the OP, I think it's all very much driven by the individuals within the relationship. AND, I think all relationships need validation, regrounding, switching up.........whatever......on occasion. All too often we begin to kind of take shit for granted. Especially stuff that is, for the most part, working well. Occasionally we all need a 'collar tug' back to the core of what's important, to focus and maybe switch up some stuff to reaffirm why the relationship even exists. What that entails, well I think that depends wholly on the type of relationship and the people involved.

JeffBC -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 11:59:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity Well, when I was feeling disconnected or wanted to deny who and what I was, there was something very simple that would engage me mentally before anything else. I really believe it was done intentionally, but could have been a simple decision that the issue didn't matter enough to impose a directive. Something like, "Fix whatever you want for dinner." "We can go to any restaurant you'd like." "We can do whatever you want this weekend." She isn't going to pick anything she knows you hate. Expand it from there. "We could go there, but i know you like (fill in the blank), so we could go there. Of course I really like (fill in another blank). " She will pick the one you said you really like. She won't even think about it in the moment. She WILL think about it later. Of course, feel free to straight out ask her, "Now why did you make THAT decision?" But in the course of this thread and in conversations with Carol it became apparent that she was never feeling exactly "disconnected". She was seeing ME become disconnected (along our dynamic, not our love) and felt that was not optimum for me. So while your advice was, in fact, exactly what I was doing when I thought she was really in indecision, now I think a firmer approach is called for.... much like below... Of course you could just grab that collar, set her on her knees and look her in the eyes with a firm, "MINE"... I think a fair amount of this is in order. Carol is experiential in nature so benign little acts like this will register on her. I, in turn, will register her shifting perceptions. In my own head I'm thinking a combination of a steady diet of small things like you've listed above along with a smattering of much more dramatic things (I'm considering loaning her out) is probably the right recipe. In most of those things I need to force her mental state more than her body since her actions were never really in doubt. As an example, Carol is Miss Efficiency. So I might cuff her while she's cooking with a 12" length of chain between the cuffs. Along with that would come a command along the lines of, "... And how I want you to interpret this Mine is not as an annoying hassle during your cooking but rather as an opportunity to submit gracefully." Forcing her out of her strongly default interpretation should press the point home to both of us even if the action itself was tiny.

LadyPact -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 12:07:12 PM)
Jeff, you know the things that I am going to tell you. It's the kind of stuff that works for Me, but isn't going to do you any good because we have such vastly different styles. I'm very much one of those 'you don't want to submit, then I don't want to Dominate' types. I absolutely will say whatever you want to make for dinner is fine or that I'm not willing to tell someone what to do if they no longer belong to Me. The ways that I expressed authority in the dynamic no longer apply. Putting someone in the position of making their own decisions often can make them realize they want to turn that over to someone else. This is not withholding affection. It is withholding participation in the power exchange. That includes the terms that are related to said power exchange. Mistress being the term that I no longer allow people to call Me that seems to have the greatest impact. The other is to get back to protocols and rituals. (I know you don't particularly use them regularly.) For those who do use them, getting back to them (or taking them away) can help a person see what they really want. From clip's side, yanking the leash definitely works. When I exert authority, it puts him back in the right head space.

JeffBC -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 12:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact The other is to get back to protocols and rituals. (I know you don't particularly use them regularly.) For those who do use them, getting back to them (or taking them away) can help a person see what they really want. nods In this case it isn't Carol not wanting something. But the rituals & protocols thing is exactly on target I'm thinking. It fits neatly into the "steady diet of small things" category I mentioned above. The fact that we don't normally do these things doesn't mean they have no purpose. In fact, they serve the same purpose for us as everyone else... reinforcing a dynamic. It's just the specific way ours needs to be reinforced is a bit odd. As I have said, the obedience thing is invisible to us... "fish in water" and all that. But both ownership and "internal obedience" are bolt-ons. Because of that they need the same sort of reinforcement that anything which does not come naturally needs.

SacredDepravity -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 12:41:05 PM)
I read the humorous after posting here, so I was a bit lopsided in my view of what was going on. Still, showing her how often she does what she knows pleases you over what she would have wanted is a big deal. I understand the need for firm protocol, however, and think heavy doses of that often work well too. More on the other side later. SD

ARIES83 -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 1:27:42 PM)
I have a sort of rule, and yer it's gunna sound like i'm up myself, but I don't like talking about the specific methods and tactics I have thought up because for one, there's a lot of lurkers on here who will probably go and try them out on their unsuspecting girlfriends. And for two, they are pretty strong MoJo... That's why I will sort of get into practical specifics over CMail, one on one. Such powerful MoJo must not fall into the wrong hands! [sm=rofl.gif] -ARIES

JeffBC -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 2:44:10 PM)
It doesn't sound like you're "up yourself". I suspect a fair number of us have things we think are best left to more controlled discussions.

Asfixation -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 3:48:08 PM)
quote: So I need to "reaffirm our dynamic". I belive a dynamic is ever changing and always evolving; that it is an energy, an exchange, an expectation and an empathy between two (at least) consenting people. The moment it becomes a fixed code of behaviour or ritual, for Us at least, it is a deadening and external bolt on. We work together business wise, we create together and We are 24/7 which for Me is temporal not spatial, as We work in different countries (happily not as far distant as some US states), and certainy time-wise only one hour on the clock and one half hours by plane. That separation causes least concerns but life's changes (illnesses, growing young persons, highly demanding creative jobs) certainly do take their toll. So yes I understand the need for ~reaffirmation~ but for me it must, as with all aspects of my life, include breakig new ground, moving forward and pushing the 'envelope'. Life is complex enough and since, for all the above reasons, affirmation cannot always be acted out, I have a code whereby I refer to him as 'it' when objectification is reuired, by the term servant, by the term slave and ofcourse in many family situations nd work situations simply by his first name. The ~reaffirmation~ is all the more punchy therefore following periods of abstinence from play. But lovely too is the shock of hearing ~my love~ tumble from my mouth.

JeffBC -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 4:01:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asfixation I have a code whereby I refer to him as 'it' when objectification is required, by the term servant, by the term slave and of course in many family situations and work situations simply by his first name. nods I'll be pushing the "master" title more and other things like that. Sure, on one hand such things are window dressing. But they do serve as at least a subtle reminder. *But lovely too is the shock of hearing ~my love~ tumble from my mouth.* For me it's the way she snuggles into me when she's asleep. I figure if a woman who's totally asleep still manages to nestle in when I wrap an arm around her then I must be in the "really good" category in her head :)

txdiamond68 -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 4:12:03 PM)
Be very glad that you are at least recognizing it and workinng to do something about it. When this happened in my (very recently ended) last relationship, he just decided that I was happy with the status quo and brought another girl into our household that filled his need. Neither one of us realized what was happening until it was way too damn late. She is now there with him, and I am here, alone in an apartment. Part of that is MY fault for not standing up and shouting at him that I needed his dominance, and the rest of it is his for not giving enough of a damn to do anything about it. (Yes, I am very angry... for more info feel free to go read my profile and journal... warning: ranty.) What was mentioned above would not only have driven me back to the state of mind that I desired, but would have made me deliriously happy along the way. I hope things are working out for you. Blessed be, ~t

kiwisub12 -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 4:17:57 PM)
my first dom every couple of months would ask me how i thought our relationship was going. The first time he did it, i freaked out completely because i thought he was going to go to a negative place. (this being the usual for me thing to assume - have problems with authority). But no, he was honestly asking me what about our relationship was working and what wasn't. Since the foundations were solid (inspite of my freakout), it was all actions we were talking about. I told him one time that i didn't like something and we negotiated that thing. He mentioned something that he had noticed that was negative for him and after a short consideration, i agreed with what he was saying and changed my behaviour. This ritual made me feel very safe - because i knew exactly how he felt and what he wanted me to do. It was a safety net for us, to stop us from falling. It worked for the two of us because i was committed to honesty in our relationship. I would not tell him something that i didn't truely feel just to make him feel good, or not to piss him off. In my current relationship, there isn't anything so formal in place, but the idea of total honesty is still there for me. I have discovered it is easier to be honest than polite - honesty works better for on-going relationships - makes them go on.[:)] Perhaps if you don't have something like this in your dynamic, you could start one, Jeff. Though i have a feeling that honesty in relationship evaluation isn't a problem for you.[:D]

JeffBC -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 4:28:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Perhaps if you don't have something like this in your dynamic, you could start one, Jeff. Though i have a feeling that honesty in relationship evaluation isn't a problem for you.[:D] In fact, today is Carol's last work day then we are hiding in our house for 4 days. Among a scattering of lingerie and blowjobs and whatnot we're going to be having a good sit down. It helps that neither Carol or I worry about some fundamental of our total relationship slipping. This is more "fine tuning". But hell yeah... if the woman I'm trying to own wants to read me her owner's manual I'm all ears!

sunshinemiss -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 4:33:04 PM)
I admit... I think you all should just come to Korea... Oh. Wrong thread.

Lucifyre -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 4:34:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC nods I'll be pushing the "master" title more and other things like that. Sure, on one hand such things are window dressing. But they do serve as at least a subtle reminder. But Jeff, sometimes the window dressing is JUST as damned important as any of the rest of it. When Mr calls me "mine" like you do with Carol, it sends shivers up and down my spine. The silver cuffs (24/7) and collar (daytime only) I wear all the time show the world that I am His property. When He has me wear my ankle cuffs to bed clipped together every night to sleep, it is an all night reminder, whether I need one or not, that I belong to Him. Like any long term relationship, there are peaks and lulls...we had a <very> long lull and it was only recently that we decided together as a D/s couple to renew and revive the things in our lives that make us as a couple, tick. It's not that the D/s ever went away for us, it's that we let life get in the way of something so important to us and we settled into just being a married couple for awhile, then we further settled into almost a roomate feeling for awhile who p[ayed video games and raised kids and dealt with too many vanilla problems, and the D/s kind of took a silent place. I can't tell you how many times in the years we took a break I wanted to just up and toss the whole fucking toybox LOL. We have always been a team and had eachothers backs, but somewhere along the line, though we knew that each was important to the other, we almost took that for granted and just dealt with everything else first. It never came close to costing us our relationship, thankfully, because we are strong together...but there was lots of butthurt from both parties at one point or another over things that just should have never mattered...especially at the cost of the other ones feelings. In March of this year things kind of came to a head and we decided that enough was damn well enough...though we have always been priority in each others lives, it was time to show it. It is taking a LOT of hard ass work on both our parts to navigate our way back to being full D/s. We both still slip from time to time (this mornings tantrum for instance) But part of keeping it forefront in our heads IS the window dressing. It is a visual/physical reminder of what we want to put priority on, how we want to live our lives in a 24/7 capacity. Yes, most of the "window dressing" is/are things that I physically have on my person rather than Him wearing anything, unless you consider He has changed his whole entire to my taste simply because I fuckin like it (shaved head, goatee beard, pierced nipple, the way He dresses daily) but for us, that's enough...it works for us. I don't know if any of this makes any sense or even applies. But take it for what it's worth. I guess I'm saying, whatever helps you to have what you enjoy make sense, that's all that matters and no one elses opinions or experiences are going to fix/enforce/reaffirm what's right for you and Carol. Lucifyre

LadyPact -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 5:21:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC It doesn't sound like you're "up yourself". I suspect a fair number of us have things we think are best left to more controlled discussions. I have a feeling that Aries might share My agreement on this one. Some things really are personal. I'm just going to extend the offer. It is My opinion that a protocol or a ritual shouldn't be some standard form of xyz for a specific dynamic. A public venue or private invite situation may have a standard that they want to meet, but that is never as important as what happens in your home. That bond that ties the two of YOU is always going to take precedence. Should you want to bounce ideas off of one of the high protocol types or have someone to talk you through how you might establish certain rituals that fit YOU, I'm always just an email away.

DesFIP -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 5:27:57 PM)
I think we're all experiential. Otherwise we'd be fine just being online only relationships. But yes, I need more physicality when we get disconnected. His hand on my neck, more spankings - even light ones, him just grabbing me and pulling me in for a hard kiss when he feels like it. I live in my head most of the time, I need the physical manifestations to feel grounded.

ARIES83 -> RE: Reaffirming our dynamic (8/30/2012 7:55:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC It doesn't sound like you're "up yourself". I suspect a fair number of us have things we think are best left to more controlled discussions. I have a feeling that Aries might share My agreement on this one. Some things really are personal. I'm just going to extend the offer. It is My opinion that a protocol or a ritual shouldn't be some standard form of xyz for a specific dynamic. A public venue or private invite situation may have a standard that they want to meet, but that is never as important as what happens in your home. That bond that ties the two of YOU is always going to take precedence. Should you want to bounce ideas off of one of the high protocol types or have someone to talk you through how you might establish certain rituals that fit YOU, I'm always just an email away. Yer another reason I like discussing the practical specific stuff one on one, say we use Jeff and Carol for an example... I don't think theres much that's going to adversely effect that relationship in the way of trying new things out, so whatever points I might bring up or methods I might suggest are only going to bring a fresh perspective to the table. Because I'm also confidant in Jeff's ability to take the fresh info and add it to his own knowledge and experience, to figure out if and how he might apply it. So if I was to have a talkie to Jeff, I feel that what ever I said was, yano... In safe hands. With the forum though... There's a whole range of different skill, experience and maturity levels, not to mention a whole range of different relationships. And not to sound up myself again but, I'm not exactly willing to trust the ability of everyone to be able to apply my MoJo... -ARIES

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