An informed populace - how do you personally do it?

An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 4:42:18 AM)
One of the underpinnings of the US system is that the populace be educated and aware of the world. Obviously, every person who posts in P&R is aware of the world, each through our own prism. I realized that I have been following CNN and yahoo news for the coverage of the RNC, and will do so for the DNC as well. In other words, I am following politics second hand. How about you? Will you be/have you been listening to actual speeches, or relying on news outlets to digest things for you?

Politesub53 -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 5:04:04 AM)
I always read or listen to links in any post I reply to. I also try and verify what I see or hear from other sources, such as the link about Obasma admitting he was born in Kenya which turned out to be a spoof but was hailed as evidence. Despite crys from the Conservatives here that the BBC is biased, I think they do try and give a balance, unlike some of our newspapers. I also watch other news outlets as we can get several on cable here. All in all though, you cant beat reading the article or watching the speech in full. Just like our political conferences due to take centre stage this month, your politicians also pander to a captive audience at these events. I love the attacks on "Obamas deficit" when Cheney stated the following. " As debt mounted, Dick Cheney told then-Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill, who says he warned about the coming fiscal crisis, “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.”

Lucylastic -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 5:59:06 AM)
Cspan for the actual speeches, Fox, CNN, BBC, CBC, Huffn poo, Sludge, RCP, Fact Checker.org, and a couple of right and left wing forums....are my usual links to read, depending on what is on and what sparks my ire, or interest I also use google news for links to other sites and news, I also read many links posted. I spend three hours a day on news/interest but then I have the time and the ability to do so.

Aswad -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 6:16:48 AM)
I actually agree that the BBC does try to keep things fair, balanced and accurate. No matter what you do, the observer will always be in the process in some way, preventing absolute objectivity, and they no doubt know this. Which is the starting point for approaching objectivity, as it allows you to try. If you're aware that your own perception is colored by your own history and prejudices, you can try to compensate for those and arrive at something that is closer to the truth than what you could accomplish without this awareness. I see the same thing in one of the Norwegian TV channels, called NRK, although I think the BBC does a better job. Something about the NRK being more biased to start with, at least in the top parts of the structure, but trying in the same way to keep this bias out of things. Of course, if memory serves, NRK was very much built on the BBC as a model for precisely this reason. I get the impression that a lot of the channels in Europe are competing with each other on actual accuracy as well, not just ratings and viewers. A lot, not all, mind you. This is even clearer in the newspapers, where some of them present a lot of premature conclusions and sometimes have a heavy bias, while others are recognizeably closer to the source material. I've had the (mis)fortune of being on the "wrong" side of a few periods of moral outrage, for instance, and the newspaper I always thought to be the most accurate was the one that relayed the most factual picture of what was actually going on, with the least outrage factor and overall both the least amount of populism and sensationalism. I could use a recent BDSM related trial as an example, where a guy has been charged with aggravated negligent rape for being in a TPE relationship that seems to be pretty recognizeable as comparable to a lot of people on this site. Save for the expectation that he should have known she was lying about being happy in the relationship in order to stay with him, and that he should have dumped her on account of knowing this uncommunicated thing. It's not clear, either, whether she was unhappy in the relationship before the scene that resulted in the charges, just that she chose to stay and kept on consenting to it, including the scene (where it is unclear whether there was a safeword, and whether it was used; a key point, IMO). The two had a vanilla marriage for several years before transitioning to TPE. Note that the local scene does not condone TPE or M/s, and is of the mind that regular D/s is edge play. Some of the media are reporting this as a clear cut case of a pervert forcing himself on an innocent, vulnerable woman (with a strong subtext of 'vulnerable' and 'woman' being two words for one thing) and leaving out all the consent and negligence aspects altogether. The NRK, however, is reporting it as a conundrum where there is no clear bad guy, just a bad situation, and offering very little in the way of interpretation. That approach, of trying to stick to the facts and not rushing to a conclusion, is why I pay attention to their news coverage. As for the main question of the thread: when it comes to American politics, I primarily rely on a varied selection of sources to get my information, and try to keep track of what biases the various sources have. I also read a bit of source material, but I don't put as much effort into tracking down primary sources as I do in cases that are from my own part of the world. Seeing as it's mostly relevant to my participation in P&R, and to a basic awareness of what goes on in the world (I do the same for other countries), that seems like a fair enough tradeoff. IWYW, — Aswad.

DaddySatyr -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 6:33:53 AM)
Personally, I've had a very busy 10-14 days. I've been running around like a blind man in a fish market who thinks he's gonna get laid. The only sources I've really been able to ("keep up with" wouldn't be an accurate term, right now) check in on would be Yahell/ABC, Local ABC talk radio (Imus, who leans democratic, usually, Geraldo, who's a lefty, and Mark Levin who claims to be a conservative but I think he is very much a centrist) and some of the links that get put up, here. I've always enjoyed the fact that C-SPAN doesn't pontificate/spin after the events they broadcast so that's my usual source. They set up a microphone/camera, broadcast whatever and switch to a different whatever. I did see some of the Yahell/ABC coverage the other night and the incessent "What he really meant was ..." after the speeches was disgustingly biased (But, 30 years later, someone at ABC still thinks Cokie Roberts is a journalist). I'm actually starting to have some sympathy for President Car ... oooops! I meant Obama. He campaigned on "The Economy sucks. I'm going to fix it" and he can't do that, anymore. It's okay, though because Mitt has been studying Reagan's 1980 tactics. President Obama will be retiring in January. Peace and comfort, Michael

Musicmystery -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 6:54:44 AM)
quote: Will you be/have you been listening to actual speeches Steven, I read the text of the speeches. It takes a tenth of the time sitting through the video would take.

TheHeretic -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 7:16:03 AM)
As I've mentioned recently, Steve, the conventions are strictly a CSpan affair. I read my local paper daily. For day-to-day, keeping up with what's going on in the world, I like to have an easy aggregate site to start from. Until recently (the Chalian episode) I was gritting my teeth, and checking headlines on Yahoo News, even though I had watched them drifting into lower and lower quality and breadth of coverage. I haven't replaced the bookmark on the 'puter at work yet, but Yahoo doesn't even get to be the convenient homepage on this one after that. CNN will pop right up on the tablet, and that will work for the moment. When a story catches my interest, I'll cut and paste into Google, and see where it takes me. Time permitting, and if it's something I might want to engage in a discussion on, I'll make a point of picking one or two sites I know have a bias different from mine, to get that alternate view.

Rule -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 8:24:35 AM)
We have elections here in The Netherlands in about two weeks. I do not pay the political news any attention. My mind is made up: I will vote for freedom of information, so I will vote for our local Pirate Party. A couple of hours ago, while shopping, I received a flyer from one of the other parties, my first such flyer. I will be a member of a voting bureau during the election day. I started doing that about a dozen years ago - and to my surprise I got paid for what I thought was volunteer work. I am very much convinced that it does not matter very much what party one votes. They in my opinion are all puppets that get their strings pulled by the same behind the scenes interests. Democracy is a fraud.

kdsub -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 10:06:32 AM)
First hand or second...have you learned anything new about either party?...I think I know the answer. No robo calls...No political advertisements... No conventions for me. My mind is not influenced by any one speech or even action. My mind continually over time notes the actions of my representatives and those aspiring to office and ignores the hyperbole of politics. Butch

PeonForHer -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 10:12:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven One of the underpinnings of the US system is that the populace be educated and aware of the world. Obviously, every person who posts in P&R is aware of the world, each through our own prism. Seriously, Steven, there's also a fundamental problem of an ideology that actually values ignorance above knowing. Every time I read or hear certain words and phrases, I suspect it's lurking. 'Common sense', 'intuition', 'I know in my heart' . . . .

FullCircle -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 10:40:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven How about you? Will you be/have you been listening to actual speeches, or relying on news outlets to digest things for you? There is an old saying: 'Lies are easier to tell in written form.' It means that if you read what people say in print rather than watch them say it then you are making all those subconscious abilities you have gained throughout your life (to spot pork pies) redundant. I'd strongly advise people to watch the speeches first hand from start to finish if need be to gauge if the speaker is comfortable with what they are saying. Also at the same time to keep a rational mind and not get swept up in the speech like in Nazi Germany. Actually that saying about lies is probably a lie but I stand by it 60%.

vincentML -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 11:40:10 AM)
I am totally biased. I already decided years ago. One Party's bullshit is much closer to my ideology than the other's. But, I watch the other for laughs and outrage. It promotes the circulation of my blood. I mean, let's be honest here. [:D][:D][:D]

Real0ne -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 11:42:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML I am totally biased. I already decided years ago. One Party's bullshit is much closer to my ideology than the other's. But, I watch the other for laughs and outrage. It promotes the circulation of my blood. I mean, let's be honest here. [:D][:D][:D] Bullshit on the left bullshit on the right is none the less still bulshit.

Real0ne -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 11:49:26 AM)
the fact that anyone gets their information from anywhere but the observable events is immediately subject to the bullshit meter. everything done with government has several meanings and purposes people will never know much less understand even if it bit them in the ass because its impossible to corral all the tentacles of the controllers in todays world. So good luck with anything but personal ability to test and confirm every hypothesis yourselves. oh and there is NOT DAMN THING IN ANY STATE that forces the legislatures to pass constitutional legislation, and legislation of the police state is such a huge business good luck changing that, and the courts always manage to make a sweetheart deal decision at a crucial moment when people catch on to shift the direction of the legal system monopoly and who do you go to when they do that? You bend over and take3 it up the ass! Then go for a ride up da nial claiming thats its the best system there is you got "change" in your pocket therefore its all good. Thats what you do! LMAO and the beat goes on

slvemike4u -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 12:48:31 PM)
I like to get my information first hand,in other words I watch/read transcripts of the speeches either live or at my leisure.I read at least two/three newspapers a day(starting with the New York Times),follow lnks here. I will see as much of both conventions live as I can,check out the speeches I care to on tape (still haven't seen the silly Eastwood fiasco,don't know if I will bother to).Read both liberal and conservative op ed pieces . I will see all of the debates ,some parts multiple times lol. I listen to right wing radio for the comedic value and to get a sense of what some will posts here later(we have a number of regurgitating posters here,I can usually predict a couple of threads just by listening to Rush on the way back from the country club ) I read voraciously,for instance I just finished "The Obamians "The Struggle inside the White House to Redefine American Power" by James Mann( a great read,I would suggest it for anyone interested in a look into the policy making decisions of this administration and how they were arrived at). As Lucy noted herself.....I am fortunate enough to have both the time and the ability/desire to pursue,read and digest the information....add to that the fact I am a bit of a political junkie and I feel I have the well informed thing covered

Musicmystery -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 1:19:05 PM)
quote: There is an old saying: 'Lies are easier to tell in written form.' I wonder what undereducated person tried to tell themselves that. Lies are much easier to sell in spoken form. That's what adds the "electrifying" to the pack of lies Ryan peddled.

slvemike4u -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 1:41:58 PM)
Music I think you are misreading that,my take on it was FullCircle was saying that it is easier to read the bullshit contained therein when you cut out the distraction of the delivery and all of it's trappings

Real0ne -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 2:00:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I like to get my information first hand,in other words I watch/read transcripts of the speeches either live or at my leisure.I read at least two/three newspapers a day(starting with the New York Times),follow lnks here. I will see as much of both conventions live as I can,check out the speeches I care to on tape (still haven't seen the silly Eastwood fiasco,don't know if I will bother to).Read both liberal and conservative op ed pieces . I will see all of the debates ,some parts multiple times lol. I listen to right wing radio for the comedic value and to get a sense of what some will posts here later(we have a number of regurgitating posters here,I can usually predict a couple of threads just by listening to Rush on the way back from the country club ) I read voraciously,for instance I just finished "The Obamians "The Struggle inside the White House to Redefine American Power" by James Mann( a great read,I would suggest it for anyone interested in a look into the policy making decisions of this administration and how they were arrived at). As Lucy noted herself.....I am fortunate enough to have both the time and the ability/desire to pursue,read and digest the information....add to that the fact I am a bit of a political junkie and I feel I have the well informed thing covered yeh and that is all political yammering that has nothing to do with what I am talking about which is purely statistic and informatinal outside the poitical umbilical cord. intravenous politics is completely misleading ALL the time.

Rule -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 2:11:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Lies are much easier to sell in spoken form. I agree.

stellauk -> RE: An informed populace - how do you personally do it? (9/1/2012 2:47:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven One of the underpinnings of the US system is that the populace be educated and aware of the world. Obviously, every person who posts in P&R is aware of the world, each through our own prism. Given the enormous challenges that words like socialism and Marxism present, and being able to correctly identify a US birth certificate, all I can say is that you have a fair proportion of people with either learning difficulties or some degree of retardation. We have a similar situation here. I can't remember who, but if I remember correctly we've had a few new political parties specially set up under the Mental Health Act to cater for such people. For example there's EDL, UKiP, and Respect. There was also the BNP, but since the Government have commissioned ATOS Healthcare to force the sick, disabled and mentally ill off benefits I don't think that party exists any more. However... quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven How about you? Will you be/have you been listening to actual speeches, or relying on news outlets to digest things for you? There's six types of people who should never be completely trusted and who will always be subjective. These are politicians, journalists, playwrights, actors, directors and lawyers. I rely on three sources, the BBC, Private Eye and PAP (the Polish Press Agency) but other sources vary depending on the issue and how interested I am in it. I have my own prism and am biased like everyone else. However I don't stop at speeches and articles, but will also read comments and responses because I feel that you can often find readers with better or more informed opinions than those who wrote the articles.

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